marxjunk

I wouldnt publish another pic of it, til more surface..id prob ask w-machine to remove them..you have posted enough info for the scammers to start stamping carbs..and for awhile...who would prove them wrong?

and...i appreciate the thanks...and i get where youre coming from..but if ya cant play well around here you will be ran off...calling long time members stupid and dumbies is wrong....
its easier to say nothing, but facts, than to get personal..some people can take it..some cant..i'm thick skinned..i'd laff...others will get you banned..and that does no one any good...

Octania

I'd like to start out with a big THANK YOU to Marty for [at long last] sharing photos of this thing. I think you failed to understand the rarity of this item. I shall refrain for commenting on attitudes and presentation, for who among us is faultless in that regard?

I shall continue with an apology to Marty, and anyone else who may have taken umbrage at my disbelief. However, based on the rarity factor here, and the way in which it was presented, comparisons to Elvis and Alien sightings was in no way out of line... but perhaps to a newcomer; I failed to take that into account.

Now, to address a few points:
THIS is the PM I got from Marty a few days ago:
"Hi my name is Marty,I am new to this web site but not Oldsmobiles. I see you guys have a little trouble finding out if the 253 is real. Everybody wants a pic,but nobody has one? I have a original 253 I took off a 68 stick car myself. ITS NO RESTAMP,its the real deal. There will be a lot of crow to eat,when these pics come out. And NO its not for sale. Thanks Marty"
======================
This, astonishingly enough, was a bit hard to believe. However, I figured maybe it might happen, so I dragged up an old 7028253 thread with:
...
"Please stand by
The first ever published photo of a REAL 7028253 carb
NOT A RESTAMP
will soon be forthcoming.
Real Soon Now.
no, it is not for sale."


With no PUBLIC accusations, public disbelief, or any such jibber jabber. Just a public heads-up to watch for the Photos Of The Holy Grail of 1968 Carbs.

For reasons unclear to me, Marty evidently decided instead to take another tack at this point. I dunno if he just has thin skin, or others also expressed incredulity, or what. Evidently I was not sufficiently tactful in my initial reply [yes, it's true, me, not so tactful]. It seems that Marty just vastly underestimated the rarity of this item, and therefore the commotion that a sighting might be expected to create. Of COURSE disbelief is the natural first reaction [Denial, bargaining, anger, depression.... acceptance]. Surely you have heard of the Flat Earth theory, the Earth-centric theory, etc. When other more accurate explanations were presented, no one wanted to believe... at first.




You people have called me a LIAR because I wanted to help you out with something you never seen.
=============
Whoa, Nellie, there sir. NO ONE EVER used the L word.
Expressing disbelief at a story presented w/o proof is a subtle but distinguishable difference.
Since you have the proof at hand, you needed only present it.
[Of course, you must realize... it will be initially denied and picked apart for details like the font, angle, depth of stamp, date code, etc. Such is the nature of the dialogue of absurdly rare parts.]




I was just trying to help some other DIE HARD OLDS FANS out. I joined this web site to GIVE and GET Olds info. Not to have a bunch of drama. But a least everybody got to see the ghost. I am sorry I joined this website...
================
Well, I for one appreciate that. We have some qualities in common. Maybe you should have phoned first- a lot gets lost in text format, and things get taken the wrong way. Don't be sorry for joining the tempest that is this site... it's far less rude than many. With time, you can be a valuable asset, and learn a lot from others as well.



just because you have never seen it, how can you 100% say it doesn't exist - which he [Marty] equates to implying he is a liar even if the L word isnt used. Chris did not need to belittle with analogies to aliens, elvis and SMW.
=====================
Uhm. No. First off, as far as I know, NO ONE has ever declared the '8253 a myth or said that it does not exist. I searched for years and asked for photos and tried to buy one once or twice, but all I ever got in TEN YEARS PLUS of searching was rumors and tales of sightings. Secondly, yes, on the SMW 403, after years of searching, and a reward that escalated to $1,000,000... which never netted anything but various versions of the SAME STORY... I did declare that one a MYTH as of 02APR2000. I have gone out on the limb and said I am 100% certain that we can stop looking for SMW 403's. I absolutely WELCOME proof to the contrary. I would LOVE to be proven wrong on that one. Thirdly, I brought up references to other bullshed sighting stories only *after* this saga appeared to have fizzled out and become just another story w/o any photos. So, at the time, those comparisons were absolutely valid.



Exactly. And in this case there is a lot more *factory* documentation that they exist, and that should keep us looking.
So it is no surprise to me that one has surfaced.
Also note that after the OP posted, it was *two years* before anyone had anything to say. Makes me question how hard "everyone" has been looking. I can say that I was not looking for one back then.
==================
I am amazed not so much that an evidently legitimate unit has appeared, but that it has taken SO FREAKIN' LONG for anyone anywhere to put forth the effort to share this information with everyone. Again, Marty, for that, an honest THANK YOU and a Tip O' The Hat. Two YEARS ago the thread was begun? Many years before that my own search began, not because I wanted or needed one, but simply to verify that they exist, and share that info with others. Like the motivation that brought Marty here.



I would like to say thanks pete, mark and kurt. You guys are the only ONES who get it, and have NOT blown me crap about this carb. Where in the heck that guy got the stamping numbers look wrong, I dont know.
==============\
You're welcome. I am actually on your side, even if you don't realize it as yet, sir.
You know where the date picking comes from: denial, anger.... acceptance.


I am going to dip and clean this carb, so ALL the stamping-date code can be seen as clean as the day it was new.
============
That would be great. I encourage you to do so. Anything I can do to help, I will.



I live in IL, I got ahold of a guy that owns the quad shop in Rockford IL. He has some 251s but has never seen a 253 and really wants to see it.
===========
Oh, wait, what what that you just said?
THE CARB MAN has "never seen one" ?
Does that not say "rare" to you? Beyond rare, even?
See what I mean. It is borderline unbelievable.


I will also be going to the B.O.P.C 23rd annual indoor swap meet sunday feb 23rd 2014 in St charles IL Kane county fairgrounds. This show ALWAYS has members from the Olds club of America. So will see what the real experts have to say about my 253 carb. Thanks
================
I'd rely on Kurt and his resources foremost. How about Sparky, the carb man - if anyone has ever seen one, sure he has.
I'd like to finish with a call to the owner of the carb to provide some better well lit, well focused, high resolution images. Document this thing as best you can. All the casting ID's, all the meaningless dots on the side, the other numbers stamped into the fuel inlet area, the PN's on the choke links and whatnot... As you said, we are here largely to share info [and quash bullshed rumors].... so, carry on in that vein. Don't let naysayers, imagined or otherwise, stop that pursuit.

So, OK, looks like we got to the anger part OK, ready for... acceptance!

THEY EXIST, and can be found among us!!!

Now, about that SMW 403....

GM parts guy

Chris, I owe you and some other members an apology also.This thing just got out of control and crazy at times.First off I have always known how rare this 253 carb is.There were two reasons I joined this web site.One was to show you guys the ghost.And two,what something this rare might be worth?Now that everybody has seen it.Do I get a fair price from you guys.Or do I catch some more crap because I really have one,so the real price is now different than it would have been other wise?I have turned down what I would say is ALOT!I have turned many offers down over the years[yes have had it for years].But I will say this,If I ever do sell it.I will let you guys on this site have FIRST chance at it.But as for now,I just dont want to let it go.I hope thats cool with you guys.So whats up with smw deal?Thanks Marty

Boldsmobile

Lost me after I'd like to start

allyolds68

I don't get what your problem is with Octania. Maybe he's never helped you like he's helped others (and me) or something. He may not use the "quote" feature as eloquently as some but I don't seem to have any problem following it and I doubt you do either. His somewhat sarcastic post when someone else "claimed" to have one of these carbs is consistent with the way many of us feel when people makes claims without backup. Anyone who's been around here for more than a month can appreciate Chris's genuine enthusiasm for finding a rare part that few have ever seen. And when I say "finding" I don't mean that he actually has to own it. Just proof is enough to make him giddy. I understand that GM parts guy, not knowing Chris, would feel somewhat slighted by his remarks. I also know the guy came on here with ZERO posts claiming to own a part that no one had ever seen before and he did it with guns blazing. I happen to own a 68 4 speed. I had a real interest in seeing how the whole thing panned out. I had no interest in some guy claiming here to have something that he couldn't seem to post a simple picture of. I know he apologized to Chris and "others" above and I accept that but his initial tirade pissed me off enough that I could really give a **** what he owns. (plus the date code is way too late for me)


carry on......

runningmonte

7028253 is off a 68 olds 400-- F85/cutlass //442

allyolds68

Since they never put a 400 in a F85/Cutlass that's not really true

runningmonte

I brought up the olds carburetor listings for 1966 to 1985 chart & did the 7028253 search --this is the info they give-- manual trans carb by the listing, sorry for the false info

Boldsmobile

I don't have an issue with him.

I didn't know claims of verbosity were as severe as claims of " you don't have what you say".


He let his skepticism get the best of him , otherwise he wouldn't have bothered to apologize.

GM parts guy

Look I came to the web site about a carb nobody has ever seen!My post went something like this,Hi my name is Marty,I see you guys have never seen a 253 carb I have one.I tried to down load pics but could not,so I emailed Kurt and sent them to him to post.So when [some people] started with their ya right claims.THAT set me OFF.And as far a GUNS BLAZEING.Hi my name is Marty I have a 253 carb?Come on man REALLY?I dont know who you people think you are,but unlike others I dont and have NEVER talked sheet about ANY parts I have or sell.I am sorry some guys have been looking for one of these[for years] thats NOT my problem.I am 55 in march,and have been parting cars out and selling parts for almost 40 years!I dont know everything,but I know somethings.Some of you have posted[I dont care what he has[then why all the crap?]Its because of his attitude?What attitude,the one where you guys just treated me like some dumb a-- who just fell off the dumb a-- wagon.I am sorry that people in the past on this site talked crap.THATS NOT ME!!!I have a 100% on my ebay.Maybe some of you should go take alook and see what a honest seller really looks like MGS396.So the next time[and there will be a next time]someone comes on this site,you guys might have alittle less attitude toward them.Unlike you guys did me.So if you dont like me or my attitude,thats cool.JUST keep to yourself and move on.Because believe it or not,some people are cool with me on this site.I have SOME very rare parts forsale.1968 4 speed 12 bolt 342 posi,1973 442 4 speed console[ONLY MADE ONE YEAR]1974 Hurst Digital tach with console,2 10 bolt 273 posi rears from 1974 Hurst cars,hoods 14x7 rims bolt on center caps and more.So if I can help you guys out with some hard to find parts great,if not thats cool to.Lets just move on already.

marxjunk

IS this the same Marty that sold a 68 beaumont 4 door this past spring in ebay?

GM parts guy

Are you the guy from kansas that wanted it,or the guy from Kansas that bought it.

marxjunk

im not in Kansas but we did talk on the phone about it

GM parts guy

Mark what state are you in.

marxjunk

Missouri...im about 25 miles outside of Kansas City Mo

GM parts guy

I had alot of people emailed me about that car.Are you the guy that wanted to convert a 68 chevelle to a 68 Beaumont?

GM parts guy

For you guys that never heard of a beaumont.Its based on the GM A-body1964-1969.Its a pontiac made in canada.But has the chevy drive train in it.Looks almost like a 68 chevelle,but its a pontiac?They made the SD396 where the us made the SS396.GM of Canada wanted their own make and model as the chevelle.So here you go.The beaumont.These were never sold in the U.S.And are very rare to find.I know I sold one to cheap!Less than 400 were made of the model I had.WOW.

runningmonte

owning 1 of 400 sounds great until you need certain hard to find parts.
Owning one that is 100% complete would be the way to go here,

GM parts guy

Your right about owning a car that only 400 were made.I looked for a left rear tail light lens for over 3 years.The parts ONLY come from Canada and are very hard to find.I would have a million people always ask is that a chevelle?I would say no its a pontiac.Then the dear in the head lights look.Very cool one of a kind car.

HammerMass

is it possible that this carb was only used on 1968 Police Apprehender cars? The factory literature (Salesman Specs) does in fact show that a 400 CID ( V8 - L77 - 10.50-to-1 compression ratio) was available in the F85 model for police usage: option B01 (City Cruiser) or option B07 (Highway Patrol). This apprehender option was also available on the Cutlass; Cutlass Supreme or the Vista Cruiser with this 400 CID. That is my guess as to why no one has seen this carb before - it may be from this one obscure option. How many of you have actually seen a complete 1968 Police Interceptor?

wmachine

That is actually a good guess, but not the case. The factory documented application for the 253 is specifically 442, and specifically standard shift. And the 253 was repeated for '69 and '70, same application with no big problem with finding them now.
(FWIW, I have a complete '69 455 Highway Patrol engine.)

Vader

Ok, so if this is in fact a real 253 68 carb and is really rare, dos that mean it's now worth over 2K ??

If so, why ?? it's going on a 68 4 speed. Great cars, rare carb, but....

dnmfranco

who knows, perhaps someone would.
I know for a fact 8255s have gotten a 1000.00 all day
yes great cars, rare carb but doesn't translate to big money for 68s as a whole.
Statistics on Ebay for example prove that generally speaking

GM parts guy

Yes as far as being real it is.And as for 69-70-71 W30-W31 carbs go, really?This is the ONLY 253 you have ever seen,or will.I have turned down 2000.00 at many swap meets/car shows in the midwest for this carb!I take it to show something they only heard about.Like jefferson WI swap meet,B.O.P.C swap meet ST charles IL,Petone IL swap meet, chicago land swap meets.I have had this carb for over 10 years,and have ALWAYS known what I have.I only came on this site to show you guys the ghost.And some of you still dont get it.You have not found one before I came here, and you will not find another when I leave here.So whats it really worth?????I joined this site to sell rare olds parts and to get and give some info on Olds cars and parts.This carb is NOT and has NOT been for sale.The add on 442.com is for the other parts for sale, the 253 carb gets them going, know what I mean?So enough with the carb NO ONE can buy this carb.THEY DO NOT HAVE THE MONEY!!!!!!!So if you want to buy some rare Olds parts just let me know I deal in ALL GM parts and cars.But most of it is Olds.PS How many REAL 253 carbs sold on ebay in the last 10 years!!!!!

4-Speed

The "priceless" status of a "rare" part is in the eyes of the beholder.
If it were for sale it would only be worth what someone would pay for it anyways, not necessarily a dollar amount set in the mind of the owner.


I can also "think" all day long my part or car is worth X amount of dollars.


Lets remember- "I only came on this site to show you guys the ghost"

507OLDS

Up here in Northwest Pennsylvania,there are a few Beaumonts in town,and there was a Greenbriar,in the mid-90's,but went to Chicago somewhere. Cool cars.

dnmfranco

once again my opening line" was perhaps someone would pay that".
however statistically we don't know.
If you can get 2000 for it that's great

BILL DEMMER

here are the specs. for a 7028253 from the delco #9 book:

first, the record needs to be set straight about secondary rod hangers. the hangers were selected on a per carb. basis, to obtain the proper secondary metering curve to account for manufacturing tolerances.

pri. jets: 72 (253 only)
pri. rods: 49B
sec. rods: AU (all '68 bbo's used this rod)
power piston spring: 7037734 (only 251 & 253 used this spring)

replacement carb. number 24-548
overhaul kit: 7036706(unique to '68 & '69 253 carbs. only)

differences from a 7028251:
model number
replacement carb. number
pri. jets
overhaul kit number
no other differences listed


bill

wmachine

Thanks, Bill. This affirms what I've been able to find from other sources.

dnmfranco

Hi Kurt first off like your website ....
that jet star is crazy with a four speed wow never heard of them w a manual tranny.
NICE that must move lol Dean

BILL DEMMER

upon further investigation, i dug out the old black united delco #9 book... page dated 11/68, superseding page dated 3/68

more differences:
different overhaul kit 7036715(only shared with carb. number 7028255 W-31)
fast idle cam(unique to a 253)
float bowl assembly(shared with 251 & 250)

now, the 2 dollar question is why does 253 use the same overhaul kit as a 255 W-31 350, and not a 251 std. 455?

a side note:
Kurt,
first-you're welcome.
second, both #9 books i have, disagree with the page you posted regarding the power piston spring used on the 252 toro carb. i'm showing 252 as having a 7036019 spring. and from what i've seen, the '68 toro carbs. have an 019 spring in them. a 734 spring is visibly different. must be a typo somewhere.

the book i'd really like to have now is the rp master parts and casting numbers catalog. it shows every detail of every carb. rp ever made. i know a guy that has it...


bill

wmachine

Thanks, Dean. Unusual, yes, and that part of the appeal to me. Power to weight ratio puts it right up there with the 442, and it feels like it when you get on it!


Great info, Bill! The different fast idle cam makes sense for a stick carb.
There are a couple of possibilities with the discrepancies you mention.
1. The info I posted was newer (mid '70), possibly superseding. I'm guessing (based on numbers and applications shown) that the 019 spring was weaker and it is possible that the stronger spring was determined to be be "better" by then.
2. Yes, a typo was possible. Note the 425 (sb 455) engine usage shown for the '68 251 carb.
3. One is right and one is wrong. In a case like this (conflicting information, not errors) I would defer to RP vs the Olds "factory" info. A highly unusual decision, but in the case RP is the original manufacturer, not Olds.

But most of all to be noted, most of these carbs that are close can be rebuilt to be correct without having to use a carb body that has a correct number on it.