Eastflorida

Hmm, after searching some posts, it appears that there is some protocol for how you describe a car that isn't a factory 442.

To ensure I don't disturb the peace, how should I refer to my car? 442 "Tribute", "Phantom", "Bastard"? LOL

Fun71

You forgot clone and fake.
And the ever famous Faux Faux Two.

jharsh

Just curious, Why not just call it what it is?

Eastflorida

hmm... Cutlass S with 442 stuff on it? LOL

I understand the displeasure it must cause true 442 owners. They've invested significant funds, time, effort, etc. and they should be proud of what they have.

I have no intention of dismissing the uniqueness of their rides... I wish I had one, but doing the best I can with what I have.

RetroRanger

yeah id just call it a cutlass cant go wrong w that

jharsh

X2 Me too.

oldcutlass

I call it a nice car.

joe_padavano

The VIN will tell you what to call it.

In the street rod world, "phantom" has a specific meaning of a car that was fabricated to look like something the factory COULD have built, but didn't. To me, that's very different from a Faux Four Two. The terms "tribute", "clone", etc were created to sound better than "fake" in ads and BJ auction booklets.

The reason many of us are less than pleased by these fake cars is that many sellers try to pawn them off on unsuspecting buyers at grossly inflated prices.

Eastflorida

Makes sense and I understand. Going through the info I found on-line with the appropriate options for that year, I believe I'm not too far off with what I have. The W-29 options appear to be all in place, the only thing I can find so far is a power train swap from 350 4BBL to the 455/TH400 combo.

How do I determine the rear end ratio? Tach shows 3,500 rpm at 50 mph which seems very high to me... Maybe the tach isn't reading correctly?

I'd be happy to provide any pics to validate/discredit what's in the car - heck, I'd like to be sure myself... Where should I start my search for a built sheet base on build location (I suspect it isn't there)?

VIN and Cowl tag shows...

Oldsmobile
1972
Cutlass
Hardtop Coupe
V8-350 4BBL
Dual exhaust
Framingham, Mass

1972
Oldsmobile
Cutlass S Hardtop Coupe (G87)
4th week of March
Ebony Black
Ebony Black
A51 - Black Front Bucket Seats

It also has...
Dual Gate Shifter/Console
12 bolt posi rear
AM/FM Stereo
8-Track player
Factory A/C

Need to get the engine, head and trans number (this weekend)

Thanks guys!

Allan R

That's an interesting reveal. From what you've posted I would suggest this car is a special order. Not because it has an L34 engine (which was an RPO in 72) instead of the standard L32. What makes me think this is a special order is your description of the Cowl Tag PNT code 19 19 which is Ebony Black upper/lower. You may not be aware that Ebony Black was not offered on any of the GM A body cars in 1972. To get that color, it would have to be approved by Oldsmobile as a customer or dealer special request.

The A51 Strato Bucket seats, and D55 Dual Gate shifter are also RPOs the car could be ordered with by anyone. Same with the UM2 Stereo & 8 Track, and C60 AC.

What I wonder about is the 12 bolt rear. The 72 Cutlass models all had a 10 bolt corporate rear end so that has been swapped out by a previous owner, unless you are mistaken about identifying the rear end.

Allan R

Your cars VIN starts like this? 3G87(K or M)2G... I wasn't sure if the car has a 350 4 bbl with single (K) or Dual (M) exhaust from the factory.

anthonyP

Since it is a '72, why not just leave the 350 in it with the 4bbl and dual exhaust. The factory 350 in a '72 Cutlass/442 is getting to be a rare bird. It is a good engine that has pep and will give many miles of cruising with very little maintenance.

Eastflorida

Alan R,

Here are some pics I took just now. Yep, 12 bolt, tag indicates use limited slip. Took a few pics of the exhaust and shifter/interior.

Yes, VIN is 3G87M2G...


You know, I was curious about the color as well. I found the color option on-line and it didn't show Ebony Black as an option, so I suspected the car was re-painted until I decoded the cowl tag... Interesting huh?

RetroRanger

in that same vein a 260 is a fine motor and really why not dump that BBO anchor and just plop a 260 in there I kid of course but cmon one ride in a clean running BBO and you wont have to ask !

anthonyP

Very nice car. With the 'M' in the VIN, even more reason to keep the factory 350, 4bbl, dual exhaust engine. It makes it very unique.

The '72 models are becoming like the '68 & '69 442's, now almost impossible to find where the factory 400 has not been scrapped for a 455.

Do you know why the interior wood grain looks to be from a '70 model?

Eastflorida

No I don't. Can you elaborate and I'll look into it closer? What should it be vs what I've shown?

joe_padavano

And for once, I actually agree with you.

Documented black 1972 cars are relatively rare.

joe_padavano

So FYI, that is not a "12 bolt", it is a Type O as used under the 1966-1970 Cutlass line only. The number of bolts refers to the ring gear, not the rear cover. A real Chevy 12 bolt has 12 bolts (surprise!) holding an 8.875" ring gear to the carrier. Your Type O has ten bolts holding an 8.5" ring gear to the carrier. Despite the 8.5" ring gear, this axle has nothing in common with the corporate 8.5" ten bolt axle. Type O parts are relatively difficult to find. That axle was not born under your 72, as Olds stopped making them in 1970.

droptopron

Are you certain the car isn't a real 442? As stated earlier, 350 was available in a 442 in '72. Nice car. Enjoy it.

Koda

So, one could say that Olds went black up to 1970, then did indeed go back?

Eastflorida

Droptopron,

No, I'm not certain... That's why I appreciate all the help I'm getting on here.

Joe, thanks for the clarification. As I stated earlier, all I've been able to find that had been changed is the engine, trans and rear end. I'm posting here trying to find out what I have. You're a knowledgeable guy, so thanks for your insights.

Anyway, went down today to get the tires balanced and front end alignment.

WOW!!! Such a pleasant driver now!! All my vibrations are gone and it rides as smooth as I would expect an old car to drive. Car looks very good underneath.. Shocked that all the front end stuff is good and no replacements needed.

I'd like verification of what I think I see. It appears to have the boxed control arm, sway bars, springs/shocks consistent with the W-29 442 option, but it could simply be the FE2 suspension package.

I was also able to semi-read the trans tag... 72-OW 1353?

Any other thoughts or things I should check? I'll try to get to removing the alternator bracket to get the engine number this weekend...

joe_padavano

Your car has been assembled from random parts, since a TH400 would not have been factory installed behind a 350 in 1972. I guarantee that the VIN derivative stamp on that trans will NOT match the VIN of the car. Yeah, it's a rare 1972 W-30 trans, but not original. Given the changed out trans and rear axle, there is no way to know what else has been added to this car and what it was born with. For example, the boxed rear control arms could have been installed when the axle was put in. No 350-powered 1972 cars ever came with the cutout back bumper, so that has also been added, as has the 442 emblem on the glovebox (1972 cars would have come with a Cutlass emblem on the glovebox, even with W29).

A far more interesting question is, what is the VIN derivative on the block, and does it match the one on the trans?

Eastflorida

Thanks for the info Joe. I'll pull the alternator bracket and see what the next surprise is! LOL

I'm not so sure the parts are as random as you make it sound... Seems to me like someone knew what they were doing in attempting to get close (other than the glovebox badge)...

I think you've maybe missed that I've said a few times that I knew the powertrain wasn't original... Just trying to understand what I have..

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

oldcutlass

I think some other items need looked at, intake, head letter casting number, and carb.

Allan R

True enough. I have the build sheet from one that is a U code out of Freemont with Code 19 paint.

joe_padavano

No, I knew that. I used "random" to mean "not factory installed" and "from multiple sources". My point about the trans and engine VIN derivative is that it's possible that a prior owner took the combined engine and trans out of a wrecked 72 W-30 and dropped them in this car. That would be a cool find. The Type O did not come from that W-30 however, since it is 1970-earlier. The boxed rear arms and sway bar? Who knows? Same with the back bumper. By the way, adding the notched bumper and glovebox emblem to a 72 small block car was not unusual. I did the same to the 350-powered 72 that I owned back in 1980.

Eastflorida

OK, got the carb #7041540 MF
08
1

My search shows Buick and Olds (1971)?

Can't read the engine VIN

Does the number above the water pump mean anything? 396021F

joe_padavano

Only that you have a 1968-1972 455 block.

android 211

I like 'counterfeit'.

tru-blue 442

I show that carb for a 71 Buick 455.

rollerball

Just call it a clone....that is the most commonly used word for what you have....

truckman5000

Reminds me of the last car show I was at.
there was " the guys from mechem" and my friends were all excited.
one of my buddy's wins all the time, he has a clone boss 429.
we are side by side...there going over my car.
oh...this isnt a w30, they say olds, on the intake not oldsmobile
oh look at the build, the w30 in 1970 wasn't built before 1970. This I's a 0ctober build of 1969
yup..fake w30.
I'm like realy.
the other guy looked in a book for 15 minutes
crawled under the car.
he said.
yup, just like I thought, the ow tag on the transmission has a 00114
That puts it built before 1970.
it's not correct.

my buddy, that every single thing is wrong with his car wins the " select mecum" whatever...

its complete crap.

FrankieLap

I would use clone. Altho, what @Fun71 said, is awesome. It is very funny, but in a cool way. That's the way I see it. I thought it was great. But I'm old, maybe I'm being soft. Fun71, f'n awesome!!! Faux Faux Two.

70W-32

I dont know if your dash has been swapped, but all the woodgrain pieces(including the console) are from a 1970. 71-72 cars use a different pattern.

4Speedy

I can add to this.
The wood grain on the dash is burled walnut that was 70 only. The 72 never had 442 on the glove box 70 & 71 did but not 72.

69 Hurst

'69 and '70

android 211

I call them counterfeits. Don't badge engineer it. Be proud of what you have with the big new engine.

matt69olds

This has been said many times, but solid advice.

It’s YOUR car, build it the way YOU want it.

I get it, you don’t want to advertise or brag when the car isn’t what it appears to be. At the same time, when someone buys a brand new car how long does it take before the newness wears off and people started adding personal touches?

Unless it’s a very valuable car, the chalk mark, date code, day one restoration does nothing for me. While I can appreciate the dedication to build and maintain something like that, its not something I’m personally interested in ever owning.