tinner

Hello, I understand that the proper way would be to take this into a machine shop. My budget will not allow it right now and I want a chance to have some fun with the car. My engine that is in the car now is junk. Anyway, here is what I have....
1969 F block, C head Toronado 10.25:1 455. The heads appear to have possibly been redone at some point (I'm not too far into the heads yet). The rotating assembly appears to be in good condition and relatively clean. I want to hone, re-ring and install new bearings. The ridge in the top of the bore is minimal.
What pointers do you have for me? Should I use a thicker head gasket to help relieve a little more compression or will this cause more possible detonation issues with increased quench area?
Could I use a little larger cam to help bleed off some of the compression? Is there anything that will help without changing out valve springs or do I just bite the bullet and buy new spring as well? I have no real history on the engine, but the valvetrain isn't very old looking and there's really not much film on springs and rockers, leading me to believe that they had been replaced.
I understand that I may need a lead additive because I don't know if it has hardened seats yet.
I'm hoping that I could get a couple of summer's out of this and then build a proper motor.
Thanks

tinner

I forgot to mention that the car has a 2500 stall & 3.73 gears.

80 Rocket

When you say the engine is junk, what do you mean by that?

tinner

The original engine is a 350. It had a performance rebuild before I bought this car back (this was my original car from high school) . Unfortunately before I got the car back, the engine was extremely overheated. I didn't realize how bad until recently. I had replaced head gaskets, fixed an intake leak, then figured maybe I had a cracked head because it would bubble in the radiator when up to operating temperature.The new junk engine has less than 500 miles. I figured that I would take the heads in and get them magnafluxed and if a crack was found, replace the head as I have another set of 5#'s needing a rebuild. Well as it turns out, the block is warped amongst other things and I wasn't going to keep chasing problems and putting money into the 350. I've had enough, I let the car sit for over a year because I've been fixing it since I got it back in 2010 and have not been able to enjoy it. If I didn't have good history with this car, it would have been gone by now. Sorry for the ramble....

80 Rocket

Re-ring, bearings, use a .039 head gasket that comes in the Fel-Pro gasket kit and let er rip. No lead additive, no need for hardened seats, no need for bigger cam.

If you want me to take a look at what you have and measure some stuff up, let me know. I live in Union Grove......about 20 minutes from you.

tinner

Thanks for the reply. This is the news I was hoping for, although I may throw a larger cam in it. Thanks for the help offer,I will let you know if I need a hand. You're not too far away.

wr1970

You should take 80 rockets offer on the help he knows what he is doing.You will save $$$ with his advice.JMO

oldcutlass

It was nice of 80's rocket to throw an offer out there, X2 on accepting an offer to help. An extra set of eyes is always a good thing.

80 Rocket

Then you will need valve springs.

Before you order one part, I would check to make sure nothing is in really bad shape in this motor. When you say "the ridge isn't that bad", well, that tells me there is a ridge to begin with, right?

I like to put a bore gauge down to check the cylinder walls to see what kind of shape they are in. Knowing what you have to work with will help you establish a budget.

If everything is in real good shape, throwing a cam in it might make sense. If the engine is a pile of junk, it might not even be worth throwing one penny at. Having the precise measuring instruments will determine this.

MDchanic

Why do you think you need rings?

If the engine isn't too badly worn (minimal ridge, etc.) the rings are probably fine.

Just check the bearings, replace if necessary, and let 'er rip.

The Fel-Pros will cost you about half a point in compression, but you could mill the heads to get that back.
Why do you want to reduce compression, as you stated in your first post? Most 10.25:1 (nominal) motors will run fine on 93 octane if clean and well tuned.

- Eric

80 Rocket

He's an idiot. Read some of his posts:

"I'm 80 Rocket, I went 12s with a 260 Olds motor in 110* heat"

"iron heads are better then all other aluminum heads combined"

"the cheaper you can build an engine, the happier I am, especially when you blow it up and chunks of your pistons and rods land on my roof"

Seems like another blowhard to me.

tinner

I truly do appreciate the offer. Upon my findings yesterday on complete disassembly, I will probably take you up on the offer. When I said that the ridge doesn't look that bad, it means it's almost non existent in my opinion. I have had good runners with much more. I will shoot you a pm. I also figured that if I am tearing it down all the way and it is in useable condition, it would make sense to install new rings as well. I had been thinking a w-30 cam, but if I am going to need to do machine work...then I will just do it right and it will take a while, another year lost.

67 Cutlass Freak

Tinner, Did you every think about buying a runner, to install temporarily, to be able to enjoy your car. I see complete used engines for sale, relatively cheap, all the time. That would give you time to build your engine right. Just a though...
Dave - The Freak

tinner

67 Cutlass Freak, it's a thought. I was kind of hoping I could enjoy this one and it was kind of a roll of the dice....

pogo69

i would agree with this also concerning the rings...if not much of a ridge and cylinders look good you can just ignore spending a 100 bucks or so on rings and also a ball hone cost if your doing it yourself also you may want to at least measure the valve guide wear and if they are ok just lap them back in. the use of added lead for your valve seats is not always necessary unless your really hard on the engine, imo

80 Rocket

Instead of telling the man to not re-ring, why not say "see what you have and make your determination when you have the facts at hand"?

As long as the motor is in good shape, will it run with the old rings and bearings? Absolutely. But for a minimal investment, and provided the engine is in good shape, replacing 45 year old wear parts is always a good idea.......but lets have the micrometers, bore gauges, and feeler gauges be the judge.

MDchanic

I didn't tell him not to re-ring. I asked why he wanted to.

He has an engine of indeterminate history, with minimal wear (small ridge), and specifically says he's trying to save money.

Why change the rings if there's no evidence that they need changing?

- Eric

80 Rocket

Even on stock engines with minimal wear, ring end gaps are pretty loose (like +.040"). Now, I'm not saying the engine won't run......nor am I saying it is a big deal....I'm just saying a few hundred bucks is a drop in the hat for a piece of mind.

And what I am really saying is that measuring is the only way to determine what "small ridge" really means. It could mean one thing to one person, and something else to another.

ps- is that a Delta 88 in your avatar?

pogo69

Your right the only way to know for sure about amount of wear is to measure

MDchanic

For you. He says he's short on dough - I have no idea what that means to him, but it may mean that that $100 will make a big difference.


I agree. I guess I kind of ASSumed that measuring before making a decision was a given.


1973 Delta 88 Royale convertible.

- Eric

tinner

I can spend the extra Dough on some rings, I'm just trying to keep the cost down. I'd rather keep the money in my pocket for now until I am ready to do a correct build. I am okay with rings and bearings. If I have to start looking at machine work, then I will just take my time and do it right.

johnnyjaws

if I HAD A MAN THAT WAS WILLING TO SPEND HIS TIME TO COME DOWM AND HELP U FOR FREE SOMETHING IS WRONG IN UR HEAD sorry cap locks were on since ur so smart figure it out for urself. ur looking a gifted horse in the mouth dude. if I had a man that was willing to help me id make dam sure he had a cold beer when he got there and a steak dinner when he left.

tinner

johnny jaws, you need to settle down a little bit. You don't know the whole story on my end. We've been talking and I'm going to meet a couple of the guys today. There's no doubt that it is a very generous offer......

80 Rocket

Did I just get called a horse?

johnnyjaws

no rocket 80 no disrececept to u at all

80 Rocket

I know, I was just being facetious......all good bud!