DIY Paint job thread
June 13th, 2012, 11:19 PM
#41
ok etch primer and poly primer and then regular primer can vary you can use transtar and get a really good deal through autobody tool mart and then use good base and clear over them. You dont have to use ppg products through out the whole process. You will be looking between 500 in the etch primer poly primer and a good urethane primer. and paint will be expensive depending on what color you want. Check out autobody tool mart and that will give you a good figure. I have used transtar products and have been very pleased with the quality of the product's and they are compatable with most paint systems ppg dupont etc. It's hard to ball park because it all comes down to what you want to do. I have used bottom of the barrel primers to very expensive primers with no issues same with clear i have used dupont, ppg, and transtar clears all with good out comes. The prep work is what will go a long way on how it holds up also atmosphere humidity etc. alot of factors can go into why a product can fail but prep work is by far the most important on how long the product will last before it shows age.
June 13th, 2012, 11:48 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
Posts: 2,623
Here's something I found....
If this your first time and you're nervous, pick up a hood at a junkyard and practice on that first. If it turns out good, you know what to do. If it doesn't, you can always take it to Maaco I suppose.
Please note: I am not a painter. I don't even colour well, so I don't know if the advice here is good advice. However it is a cheap paint job if that's what you're looking for. Good luck.
"The $50 Paint Job"
This how to paint your car with Tremclad .
Materials:
Paint (Rust-Oleum or Tremclad)
Thinner (Mineral Spirits)
Foam Roller - Small 4" about 1 1/2" Thick; White Foam
Foam Brushes
Sandpaper (Wet)(600, 800, and 1000-1500 grits)
High Speed Polisher with Buffing Bonnet
Turtle Wax Polishing Compound
Masking Tape
Paint Tray(s)
Spray Bottle
Shamois (Cheap)
Bucket (Water)
Paint Stirrer
Paint to Thinner Ratio: 1:1 to 2:1 (Its all trial and error), but 2:1 has been found by a few peoplr to be the best.
Notes:
- Don't have the paint shaked when you buy it, the enamel will get stirred and will cause bubbles in the paint. Always stir the paint.
- The key is to have the paint thin, almost as thin as water or milk (but a bit thicker). If your bubbles don't pop, it's too thick.
- Paint becomes non-workable in about 10 minutes, Do one panel at a time.
- Wetsand by hand (no block). Spray bottle in hand. Clean bucket of water and shamois. Be sure to use lots of water when wetsanding.- For wetsanding, it may be best to wait overnight.
- Make sure you add to keep the paint in the tray thinned/mixed, the paint tends to settle when you're not using it for a few minutes.
- Un-thinned Tremclad will take several months of hot dry weather to dry. You won't be able to sand it until it's dry. A 50/50 mix dries completely in 5-6 hours of warm weather.
Prepping Car:
- Sand with 80 grit, then 100, then 200, and finish with 400. Do bodywork and paint.
Painting:
- After 2 coats, wetsand with 600 grit, then 2 more coats and wetsand with 800 grit, then 2 more coats and wetsand with 1000-1500 grit. Polish, Wax, Done.
- Load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller doesn't have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. Once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it.
- Do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy. Then do the whole roof and sail panels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it, not the time to have a coffee or smoke. Stop at the rear quarter just below the sail panels and top quarter panel where there is a edge to stop at. Then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. The trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines, and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where you stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes. Wetsanding does the rest, but you try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat.
- When you wetsand the final coat, if the paint looks flat, take a rag soaked in mineral spirits and wipe a spot down that you just sanded, that is what it will look like buffed.
- Then use a high speed polisher with buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. Keep the bonnet wet with a spray bottle.
- If you buff and decide to paint again, be sure to clean area with mineral spirits to remove residue from the polishing compound or the paint won't stick.
If this your first time and you're nervous, pick up a hood at a junkyard and practice on that first. If it turns out good, you know what to do. If it doesn't, you can always take it to Maaco I suppose.
Please note: I am not a painter. I don't even colour well, so I don't know if the advice here is good advice. However it is a cheap paint job if that's what you're looking for. Good luck.
"The $50 Paint Job"
This how to paint your car with Tremclad .
Materials:
Paint (Rust-Oleum or Tremclad)
Thinner (Mineral Spirits)
Foam Roller - Small 4" about 1 1/2" Thick; White Foam
Foam Brushes
Sandpaper (Wet)(600, 800, and 1000-1500 grits)
High Speed Polisher with Buffing Bonnet
Turtle Wax Polishing Compound
Masking Tape
Paint Tray(s)
Spray Bottle
Shamois (Cheap)
Bucket (Water)
Paint Stirrer
Paint to Thinner Ratio: 1:1 to 2:1 (Its all trial and error), but 2:1 has been found by a few peoplr to be the best.
Notes:
- Don't have the paint shaked when you buy it, the enamel will get stirred and will cause bubbles in the paint. Always stir the paint.
- The key is to have the paint thin, almost as thin as water or milk (but a bit thicker). If your bubbles don't pop, it's too thick.
- Paint becomes non-workable in about 10 minutes, Do one panel at a time.
- Wetsand by hand (no block). Spray bottle in hand. Clean bucket of water and shamois. Be sure to use lots of water when wetsanding.- For wetsanding, it may be best to wait overnight.
- Make sure you add to keep the paint in the tray thinned/mixed, the paint tends to settle when you're not using it for a few minutes.
- Un-thinned Tremclad will take several months of hot dry weather to dry. You won't be able to sand it until it's dry. A 50/50 mix dries completely in 5-6 hours of warm weather.
Prepping Car:
- Sand with 80 grit, then 100, then 200, and finish with 400. Do bodywork and paint.
Painting:
- After 2 coats, wetsand with 600 grit, then 2 more coats and wetsand with 800 grit, then 2 more coats and wetsand with 1000-1500 grit. Polish, Wax, Done.
- Load the roller up quite heavily, then work it until the roller doesn't have so much paint in it and do the detail work after. Once you spread the paint wait a minute or so and then just really gently run the roller using only the weight of the roller, on the sides just use very very light pressure as if it were the weight of it.
- Do the hood, doors, front fenders, and the trunk, that's easy. Then do the whole roof and sail panels in one shot working fast, there's enough time to do it before the paint tacks up if u rush it, not the time to have a coffee or smoke. Stop at the rear quarter just below the sail panels and top quarter panel where there is a edge to stop at. Then continue from there on each side meeting in the back rear valance. The trick there is to not leave and raised paint lines, and smooth it out gradually as u approach the point where you stop, then run to the other side and do the other half of the roof and overlap the strokes. Wetsanding does the rest, but you try to make it as smooth as possible, the paint is very thin on each coat.
- When you wetsand the final coat, if the paint looks flat, take a rag soaked in mineral spirits and wipe a spot down that you just sanded, that is what it will look like buffed.
- Then use a high speed polisher with buffing bonnet and turtle wax polishing compound. Keep the bonnet wet with a spray bottle.
- If you buff and decide to paint again, be sure to clean area with mineral spirits to remove residue from the polishing compound or the paint won't stick.
June 14th, 2012, 02:42 PM
#43
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 127
442 much - I think I've read that one somewhere before....thx for the post but no I'm aiming way higher than that. I'm going for a proper job, and great call on the scrap hood - I'm actually buying a W25 from VFN but I'm going to use the old steel sucker as my tester.
Who knows it may be perfect!
Who knows it may be perfect!
June 14th, 2012, 05:37 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 731
442 much - I think I've read that one somewhere before....thx for the post but no I'm aiming way higher than that. I'm going for a proper job, and great call on the scrap hood - I'm actually buying a W25 from VFN but I'm going to use the old steel sucker as my tester.
Who knows it may be perfect!
Who knows it may be perfect!
June 19th, 2012, 07:35 AM
#45
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 127
Olds 71 442 - great idea.
I think I wanna tackle it myself. The way I figure it I'll build a temp booth in my garage (saw a great YouTube vid on this) then spray the fenders hood and maybe even doors while off the car. There's not much room in my garage so doing them all separately will help. The difficult part is gonna be the stripes, I might go with decals just so I'm not getting too carried away and taking too much on. I can back the rest of the car in and spray it after.
The car is completely stripped to bare metal now and I'm about to order the fender patch panels then get that work done. The welding and metal work will be a shop however, I'm not equipped or skilled in that area.....
I think I wanna tackle it myself. The way I figure it I'll build a temp booth in my garage (saw a great YouTube vid on this) then spray the fenders hood and maybe even doors while off the car. There's not much room in my garage so doing them all separately will help. The difficult part is gonna be the stripes, I might go with decals just so I'm not getting too carried away and taking too much on. I can back the rest of the car in and spray it after.
The car is completely stripped to bare metal now and I'm about to order the fender patch panels then get that work done. The welding and metal work will be a shop however, I'm not equipped or skilled in that area.....
June 19th, 2012, 08:11 AM
#46
Gary
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston,Tx
Posts: 1,202
[QUOTE=Hot 442;419116]Olds 71 442 - great idea.
I think I wanna tackle it myself. The way I figure it I'll build a temp booth in my garage (saw a great YouTube vid on this) then spray the fenders hood and maybe even doors while off the car. There's not much room in my garage so doing them all separately will help. The difficult part is gonna be the stripes, I might go with decals just so I'm not getting too carried away and taking too much on. I can back the rest of the car in and spray it after.
There is one thing I learned when I painted my car is that I will never spray the doors and fenders separtely again. I ended up scratching the edges even with putting tape on them. I did not have an extra hand so I put them on by myself and ended up repainting the areas that got damaged. I know some guys prefer to do it that way but it just did not work out for me. I helped my neighbor (actually I painted it)across the street paint his Z28 and I suggested we reassemble the doors and fenders and did not have to worry about the chipping. Another thing I learned while painting the stripes on was I first did the trunk just to guage how it would turn out. I first shot the base coat and then waited a day to paint on the trunk stripes.When I removed the masking tape it pulled some of the body color off and I had to redo it. So when I got ready to do the body stripes what I did I shot clear coat on the areas where the stripes were gong to be.I let it dry over night and then I masked and painted the stripes. The body color did not pull off.
I think I wanna tackle it myself. The way I figure it I'll build a temp booth in my garage (saw a great YouTube vid on this) then spray the fenders hood and maybe even doors while off the car. There's not much room in my garage so doing them all separately will help. The difficult part is gonna be the stripes, I might go with decals just so I'm not getting too carried away and taking too much on. I can back the rest of the car in and spray it after.
There is one thing I learned when I painted my car is that I will never spray the doors and fenders separtely again. I ended up scratching the edges even with putting tape on them. I did not have an extra hand so I put them on by myself and ended up repainting the areas that got damaged. I know some guys prefer to do it that way but it just did not work out for me. I helped my neighbor (actually I painted it)across the street paint his Z28 and I suggested we reassemble the doors and fenders and did not have to worry about the chipping. Another thing I learned while painting the stripes on was I first did the trunk just to guage how it would turn out. I first shot the base coat and then waited a day to paint on the trunk stripes.When I removed the masking tape it pulled some of the body color off and I had to redo it. So when I got ready to do the body stripes what I did I shot clear coat on the areas where the stripes were gong to be.I let it dry over night and then I masked and painted the stripes. The body color did not pull off.
Last edited by Gary's 2 442-S; June 19th, 2012 at 08:13 AM.
June 19th, 2012, 03:24 PM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 731
I have a hard time not chipping the paint when I paint the doors, trunk lid and hood separate too. That's why I take the hood, doors and trunk off and paint the jambs and the underside of the trunk and doors and then reassemble before I paint the whole car. I usually get a little bit of overspray in the jamb areas after painting (if I don't put the foam tape in the gap) and I usually buff most of it out.....if it's a car that's looking for a very nice job.
September 7th, 2012, 08:58 PM
#49
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 127
Update
Hey - sorry Ive been bogged down with stuff around the house etc. so the car has taken a back seat for awhile.
I have the car completely stripped - used a chemical stripped then went over it with 80 on a DA sander. The hood is ordered from VFN and will be here by months end. Have to get my fender patch panels as well. The plan was or is to get the major body work done first (door corners, rotten wheel openings, fender patch panels, couple roof dings) then have it return to me for the balance of the prep work and of course paint.
The most frustrating part so far is getting the quarter wheel openings fixed. Unfortunately they dont make a patch panel for it, that could be welded in etc - if it was a Chebelle then no problem! Cant find any good partial quarters either and I hate to order skins from Fusick just for such a small piece. The shipping and duty would kill me.
The other thing is nobody wants to touch working on the car! I cant believe how many shops just basically push you back out their doors saying they prefer insurance work. Tells you something about our insurance system...anyway Ive got two shops that gave me quotes - one being a proper restoration shop - works on many muscle era cars and does it right. Another is an old timer that has done many older cars but doesnt have nearly as big a shop. He's friends with my buddy dad and trustworthy. Issue is the resto shop guy told me 8,000 and plan on two more - and the old timer says 5,500. Those prices were for body work and complete paint job.
Resto guy seemed overkill too - wants to replace both quarters with new just for some rot around the wheel openings. 12 hrs labour each side! Told me he could do it in a week - that was two months ago and I dont know about you guys but Im not chasing this guy for my business. Ive called three times now and not getting the warm and fuzzy feeling like he really wants my $$$$.
The old timer is cheaper at $50 and hour and a cash deal. Im inclined to take it to him - but both say they would have it three months at least and even at that the old timer told me today that he cant even touch it for three months. No biggie-winter is coming anyway.
Here's my battle - I want the car to look sharp. Do it right the first time kinda approach. Do I get the body work done, then have it return to me for the rest? OR do I just pay the piper knowing that it will be done right by an experienced guy as opposed to a first timer like me....?
I have all the rubber off of it, bumpers, mouldings etc - even the DS window is out. I know that other than the body work I dont see why its so much dough and I hate to shell it out BUT it would be my first ever paint job too so I dont wanna buy all the materials only to waste them on a screw up.
See my problem? Sure Ive watched a ton of YouTube how to's and so forth but that sure wont make me a good painter.....
Im interested in your thoughts......
I have the car completely stripped - used a chemical stripped then went over it with 80 on a DA sander. The hood is ordered from VFN and will be here by months end. Have to get my fender patch panels as well. The plan was or is to get the major body work done first (door corners, rotten wheel openings, fender patch panels, couple roof dings) then have it return to me for the balance of the prep work and of course paint.
The most frustrating part so far is getting the quarter wheel openings fixed. Unfortunately they dont make a patch panel for it, that could be welded in etc - if it was a Chebelle then no problem! Cant find any good partial quarters either and I hate to order skins from Fusick just for such a small piece. The shipping and duty would kill me.
The other thing is nobody wants to touch working on the car! I cant believe how many shops just basically push you back out their doors saying they prefer insurance work. Tells you something about our insurance system...anyway Ive got two shops that gave me quotes - one being a proper restoration shop - works on many muscle era cars and does it right. Another is an old timer that has done many older cars but doesnt have nearly as big a shop. He's friends with my buddy dad and trustworthy. Issue is the resto shop guy told me 8,000 and plan on two more - and the old timer says 5,500. Those prices were for body work and complete paint job.
Resto guy seemed overkill too - wants to replace both quarters with new just for some rot around the wheel openings. 12 hrs labour each side! Told me he could do it in a week - that was two months ago and I dont know about you guys but Im not chasing this guy for my business. Ive called three times now and not getting the warm and fuzzy feeling like he really wants my $$$$.
The old timer is cheaper at $50 and hour and a cash deal. Im inclined to take it to him - but both say they would have it three months at least and even at that the old timer told me today that he cant even touch it for three months. No biggie-winter is coming anyway.
Here's my battle - I want the car to look sharp. Do it right the first time kinda approach. Do I get the body work done, then have it return to me for the rest? OR do I just pay the piper knowing that it will be done right by an experienced guy as opposed to a first timer like me....?
I have all the rubber off of it, bumpers, mouldings etc - even the DS window is out. I know that other than the body work I dont see why its so much dough and I hate to shell it out BUT it would be my first ever paint job too so I dont wanna buy all the materials only to waste them on a screw up.
See my problem? Sure Ive watched a ton of YouTube how to's and so forth but that sure wont make me a good painter.....
Im interested in your thoughts......
September 8th, 2012, 01:24 AM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 45
I’ve spent the last few months teaching my brother how to do body and paint work, because of the exact reasons you described. Even in Southern California, most of the shops prefer the “quick buck” crash repair jobs, and from a business point of view I can’t say I blame them. It’s really tough for those guys to give a good bid, since they know it can bite them quick. Just to give you a comparison, in my neck of the country a “great quality” base/clear paint job on a car like yours, just based on the pics in the post, it would be 10k-12k. For a more “butchered” job, 5-8k. The end result of those two scenarios would look the same on the outside, any shop can block out a car and color sand it. The difference is in longevity.
I think Copper has the right idea, that you’re better off learning/practicing on how to do body work yourself. I’ve met a few guys in your position before, who sent a car or panel out to have the rough body work done, with the plan of them doing the final prep and spraying. The problem is when a shop knows they’re not the ones doing the finish work, their quality of work and finish tends to go down a lot. One of my friends sent out his 68 442 hood to a local reputable shop, it had a sizable dent in one of the raised panels. He got a “deal” at $200 and a shop did the rough body work, pounded out, filled the dent, and gave it back to him in prime. I went over to check out the hood and help him make a plan. The hood had at least 15mils of cheap 1k prime on it, and they didn’t fix where the dent took out the body line. I loaned him a long block and guide coat to start working their repair area and see what it looks like. He called me back over a few days later for the story. After hours of sanding, he wound up getting all the way down to metal in a few areas and still had guide coat left. The shop didn’t pound the dent out far enough, and they didn’t have enough filler so they poured the prime on. The bad body line had to be worked by hand, he had to recoat over their bondo, and they didn’t prep any of the edges on the hood so the prime would flake right off. The moral of the story is he paid them for nothing, since he had to redo every single part of it.
One way to look at it is since you want it done right, no one is going to care as much about the quality as you are. If you’re feeling ambitious and want to learn, I say go for it. I can completely understand not wanting to spend all the money on materials then having a screw up, but remember even if you do have a screw up, you can go back and fix it and you’re only out the money for that 1 particular stage/product of the paint job.
I also agree with Copper that you should go to a junk yard, pick up a fender, and practice on it. I mean practice start to finish, it’ll give you a report card on your skills. You do the body work, get it as good as you can, and when you think it’s perfect, spray some cheap but high gloss paint on it, and that will tell you exactly how you’re doing. It’ll also teach you the valuable lesson on what you can get away with, vs what your hand feels. Once you get used to doing body and paint work, it’ll amaze you how much running your hand over a panel will tell you.
I’m not familiar with the factory Bamboo color, but I’m assuming it’s a solid, non-metallic finish. I always recommend first timers to use a solid color, they’re much more forgiving when it comes to spray technique (distance, gun angle, overlap, and air pressure) One way for you to cut some costs is use good quality, but cheaper line of base/color (like Restoration Shop) and use a great clear coat (like a PPG or Dupont). Lately I’ve been using a lot of House of Kolor products, but they’re not the most user friendly when it comes to spray techniques, flash times, recoat windows, and especially their clear coats. I’m not a big fan of single stage urethanes, color and clear in one, but when you’re going with a solid color, then they’re perfectly okay. I think for a new painter, the base/clear systems are much easier and more user friendly. The bases spray easier since there isn’t gloss, they go on and flash dull, in other words a lot less chance of getting a run. When shooting the clear, even if you do get a run, you can sand them back out since it sounds like you’re going to be color sanding anyway. The car and truck I have painted to match in my signature, I used Dupont Chromabase, but that was almost 15 years ago now and the products have changed quite a bit, they no longer make that particular clear which worked really well.
A few tips, or just my opinion: If you do decide to do your own body work, I would suggest using the most user friendly products/tools as possible. The best/easiest sanding blocks I’ve seen are the AFS brand. I use them a long with Dura-Blocks, but the AFS are much easier to use and get the car straight, especially when you’re learning about body and finish work. The main benefits is the blocks can flex enough to always have a good contact area, and they have removable rods when you really need to have some flex. After you’ve used them for awhile, they will basically teach you how to sand a panel properly in regards to the amount of pressure you use, how well the block is making contact, and the sound it makes. I also like and personally use the more popular dura-block, but they don’t have as much twist in them, so it’s harder to get a proper contact and you can do more damage with them until you have the technique down. The AFS blocks are very expensive, and I would completely understand not wanting to spend the money on a full set, however I would recommend at least buying the 15” block, it’s the one I use the most. Summit Racing and sometimes Ebay has good pricing on them. Summit racing also has a good price on cheap dry adhesive type sandpaper by the roll that fits the blocks and it works surprisingly well.
If you’re willing to spend the money Rage Extreme body filler works excellent, it’s very smooth, easy to work, it’s almost like a glaze and body filler in one since it doesn’t have the pinhole problems like most fillers do, and it’s about the easiest sanding body filler I’ve seen. The Rage Gold is a little cheaper and almost as easy to work.
Since you’re spraying a solid color, I wouldn’t break the bank on a spray guy. It’s more important to get used to the gun, and learn how to set it up. I personally use an Iwata LPH400LVX, HVLP, 1.4 tip. It works great on 50+ micron metallic’s and candy’s, but it’s really overkill at almost $500.
Sorry for the long reply guys!
I think Copper has the right idea, that you’re better off learning/practicing on how to do body work yourself. I’ve met a few guys in your position before, who sent a car or panel out to have the rough body work done, with the plan of them doing the final prep and spraying. The problem is when a shop knows they’re not the ones doing the finish work, their quality of work and finish tends to go down a lot. One of my friends sent out his 68 442 hood to a local reputable shop, it had a sizable dent in one of the raised panels. He got a “deal” at $200 and a shop did the rough body work, pounded out, filled the dent, and gave it back to him in prime. I went over to check out the hood and help him make a plan. The hood had at least 15mils of cheap 1k prime on it, and they didn’t fix where the dent took out the body line. I loaned him a long block and guide coat to start working their repair area and see what it looks like. He called me back over a few days later for the story. After hours of sanding, he wound up getting all the way down to metal in a few areas and still had guide coat left. The shop didn’t pound the dent out far enough, and they didn’t have enough filler so they poured the prime on. The bad body line had to be worked by hand, he had to recoat over their bondo, and they didn’t prep any of the edges on the hood so the prime would flake right off. The moral of the story is he paid them for nothing, since he had to redo every single part of it.
One way to look at it is since you want it done right, no one is going to care as much about the quality as you are. If you’re feeling ambitious and want to learn, I say go for it. I can completely understand not wanting to spend all the money on materials then having a screw up, but remember even if you do have a screw up, you can go back and fix it and you’re only out the money for that 1 particular stage/product of the paint job.
I also agree with Copper that you should go to a junk yard, pick up a fender, and practice on it. I mean practice start to finish, it’ll give you a report card on your skills. You do the body work, get it as good as you can, and when you think it’s perfect, spray some cheap but high gloss paint on it, and that will tell you exactly how you’re doing. It’ll also teach you the valuable lesson on what you can get away with, vs what your hand feels. Once you get used to doing body and paint work, it’ll amaze you how much running your hand over a panel will tell you.
I’m not familiar with the factory Bamboo color, but I’m assuming it’s a solid, non-metallic finish. I always recommend first timers to use a solid color, they’re much more forgiving when it comes to spray technique (distance, gun angle, overlap, and air pressure) One way for you to cut some costs is use good quality, but cheaper line of base/color (like Restoration Shop) and use a great clear coat (like a PPG or Dupont). Lately I’ve been using a lot of House of Kolor products, but they’re not the most user friendly when it comes to spray techniques, flash times, recoat windows, and especially their clear coats. I’m not a big fan of single stage urethanes, color and clear in one, but when you’re going with a solid color, then they’re perfectly okay. I think for a new painter, the base/clear systems are much easier and more user friendly. The bases spray easier since there isn’t gloss, they go on and flash dull, in other words a lot less chance of getting a run. When shooting the clear, even if you do get a run, you can sand them back out since it sounds like you’re going to be color sanding anyway. The car and truck I have painted to match in my signature, I used Dupont Chromabase, but that was almost 15 years ago now and the products have changed quite a bit, they no longer make that particular clear which worked really well.
A few tips, or just my opinion: If you do decide to do your own body work, I would suggest using the most user friendly products/tools as possible. The best/easiest sanding blocks I’ve seen are the AFS brand. I use them a long with Dura-Blocks, but the AFS are much easier to use and get the car straight, especially when you’re learning about body and finish work. The main benefits is the blocks can flex enough to always have a good contact area, and they have removable rods when you really need to have some flex. After you’ve used them for awhile, they will basically teach you how to sand a panel properly in regards to the amount of pressure you use, how well the block is making contact, and the sound it makes. I also like and personally use the more popular dura-block, but they don’t have as much twist in them, so it’s harder to get a proper contact and you can do more damage with them until you have the technique down. The AFS blocks are very expensive, and I would completely understand not wanting to spend the money on a full set, however I would recommend at least buying the 15” block, it’s the one I use the most. Summit Racing and sometimes Ebay has good pricing on them. Summit racing also has a good price on cheap dry adhesive type sandpaper by the roll that fits the blocks and it works surprisingly well.
If you’re willing to spend the money Rage Extreme body filler works excellent, it’s very smooth, easy to work, it’s almost like a glaze and body filler in one since it doesn’t have the pinhole problems like most fillers do, and it’s about the easiest sanding body filler I’ve seen. The Rage Gold is a little cheaper and almost as easy to work.
Since you’re spraying a solid color, I wouldn’t break the bank on a spray guy. It’s more important to get used to the gun, and learn how to set it up. I personally use an Iwata LPH400LVX, HVLP, 1.4 tip. It works great on 50+ micron metallic’s and candy’s, but it’s really overkill at almost $500.
Sorry for the long reply guys!
September 11th, 2012, 05:15 PM
#52
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 127
Porter858 - THANKS A MILLION! Your post is awesome....I really appreciate it. Just today I went to another shop my neighbour got his 70 Camaro done at a few years back. Turns out the guy can be trusted as he is good friends with a good friend of mine.
For me its all about getting the body work done then I'd be brave enough to take on the rest. By body work I mean the patch work - metal work etc. Once thats done I'll do the rest myself. Turns out this guy is working on a Barracuda that was nothing but a shell and $10 grand in body panels alone.
Knowing what products to buy really helps too - paints - primers - fillers - guns....so
again your post was great.
I guess I'm such a fence sitter on this one - cause it's such a big deal but like you said I can always fix my mistakes.
I figure if I squirt it Ill build a booth in my garage outta poly and 2x4's. Couple big filtered fans at one end and filters at the other for fumes to exit. I would go solvent base / clear I think for the reasons youve stated as well.
Ive got a practice hood to work on for now and Ill try that. Squirt it, sand it down then do it over till I get it right.
Question...what guns would you recommend for paint / primer
For me its all about getting the body work done then I'd be brave enough to take on the rest. By body work I mean the patch work - metal work etc. Once thats done I'll do the rest myself. Turns out this guy is working on a Barracuda that was nothing but a shell and $10 grand in body panels alone.
Knowing what products to buy really helps too - paints - primers - fillers - guns....so
again your post was great.
I guess I'm such a fence sitter on this one - cause it's such a big deal but like you said I can always fix my mistakes.
I figure if I squirt it Ill build a booth in my garage outta poly and 2x4's. Couple big filtered fans at one end and filters at the other for fumes to exit. I would go solvent base / clear I think for the reasons youve stated as well.
Ive got a practice hood to work on for now and Ill try that. Squirt it, sand it down then do it over till I get it right.
Question...what guns would you recommend for paint / primer
September 11th, 2012, 06:14 PM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 45
You’re very welcome, and I’m glad to see you have someone you can trust to do the metal work.
There are really tons of good primes out there that will work just fine. It mostly depends on what your local automotive paint shop carries or if you’re looking to order it online. Just my personal preferences, after I do all the metal work and rough body work, including body fillers I spray the entire car with a good epoxy prime (1:1 mix ratio, one part prime to an equal part catalyst) as a way to lock everything in so to speak. Then I recoat with a high build 2K prime, and once again, just my personal preference but I always use 2K primes. The term 2K prime just means it has a catalyst you mix in, and they’re usually a mix 4:1 ratio. The high build primes are much easier to work with and they sand like butter.
I personally use House of Kolor – KP2CF, it has amazing adhesion and it’s a very tough prime, but it is a little expensive. I usually buy it by the gallon, so one gallon of part A and one gallon of part B, so I have 2 gallons of mix for $250. There are a lot of cheaper alternatives, a company called Southern Polyurethanes makes a very reputable and popular epoxy primer for $172 for 2 gallons of total product mix. You can also buy it by the quart of course. I haven’t personally tried Southern Polyurethanes yet, but I know a few guys who have and loved it. I plan on trying out their products at some point myself.
For my high build 2K prime lately I’ve been using House of Kolor KD3000. It also has great adhesion, and it sands like butter, it’s a real pleasure to work with. It can be used as a high build prime when mixed 4:1 just primer and catalyst, or a medium build primer (flows out better) when mixed 4:1:1 so one part of reducer. It can also be used as a sealer when mixed 4:1:2 so two parts of reducer. It’s also a little on the pricey side, it costs around $150 for a gallon of prime and a quart of catalyst. Once again there are plenty of alternatives and cheaper ones.
As far as what guns you should buy depend on your budget. I wouldn’t spend a fortune on high end guns when the money would be better spent elsewhere. The cheapest route would be a gun kit, where you get the spray gun, cup, and multiple sized fluid tips. The only real downside is you have to really clean your gun good after spraying the prime, they tend to stick to where the cup meets the body, and even on the needle. I think your best bet is to have 1 paint/clear gun and one primer gun.
For paint and clear coat I would recommend an HVLP with a 1.3 tip. That’s probably the most popular size and meets the most paint manufactures recommended tip size. Also since a lot of the modern clear coats don’t like to be applied very heavy, the smaller tip helps with that. Chances are if you spent around $150-$200 you’ll have a good gun that will do what you need it to do.
For primer, I like to use an HVLP 1.6 tip, but I don’t think a lot of the value priced guns come in that size, so anywhere from a 1.5-1.8 would work well. For along time I used an Air Gunsa 1.8 for primer and it worked great for the price at about $115. When it comes to primer guns, I know guys who buy the $25 harbor freight guns and they work just fine, since you’re always going to be sanding afterwards, just use your good gun to spray your sealer.
I don’t have much experience with HVLP gravity feed DeVilbiss, so hopefully some other guys will chime in. I think they’re the most popular for the home hobbyist and work well.
I was using a DeVilbiss Finish Line 802405 detail gun for $90, just for doing door jams, insides of trunks, or anywhere a small gun is needed. It worked pretty well, and I liked the gun until it got dropped and ruined. I ordered another one from Summit Racing, and when it came the air cap was leaking and cross threaded from the factory, and even after using it Summit took it back and exchanged it for me. When the new one came it had the same problem so I gave up and got a refund. Not sure if that was an isolated quality control incident?
There are really tons of good primes out there that will work just fine. It mostly depends on what your local automotive paint shop carries or if you’re looking to order it online. Just my personal preferences, after I do all the metal work and rough body work, including body fillers I spray the entire car with a good epoxy prime (1:1 mix ratio, one part prime to an equal part catalyst) as a way to lock everything in so to speak. Then I recoat with a high build 2K prime, and once again, just my personal preference but I always use 2K primes. The term 2K prime just means it has a catalyst you mix in, and they’re usually a mix 4:1 ratio. The high build primes are much easier to work with and they sand like butter.
I personally use House of Kolor – KP2CF, it has amazing adhesion and it’s a very tough prime, but it is a little expensive. I usually buy it by the gallon, so one gallon of part A and one gallon of part B, so I have 2 gallons of mix for $250. There are a lot of cheaper alternatives, a company called Southern Polyurethanes makes a very reputable and popular epoxy primer for $172 for 2 gallons of total product mix. You can also buy it by the quart of course. I haven’t personally tried Southern Polyurethanes yet, but I know a few guys who have and loved it. I plan on trying out their products at some point myself.
For my high build 2K prime lately I’ve been using House of Kolor KD3000. It also has great adhesion, and it sands like butter, it’s a real pleasure to work with. It can be used as a high build prime when mixed 4:1 just primer and catalyst, or a medium build primer (flows out better) when mixed 4:1:1 so one part of reducer. It can also be used as a sealer when mixed 4:1:2 so two parts of reducer. It’s also a little on the pricey side, it costs around $150 for a gallon of prime and a quart of catalyst. Once again there are plenty of alternatives and cheaper ones.
As far as what guns you should buy depend on your budget. I wouldn’t spend a fortune on high end guns when the money would be better spent elsewhere. The cheapest route would be a gun kit, where you get the spray gun, cup, and multiple sized fluid tips. The only real downside is you have to really clean your gun good after spraying the prime, they tend to stick to where the cup meets the body, and even on the needle. I think your best bet is to have 1 paint/clear gun and one primer gun.
For paint and clear coat I would recommend an HVLP with a 1.3 tip. That’s probably the most popular size and meets the most paint manufactures recommended tip size. Also since a lot of the modern clear coats don’t like to be applied very heavy, the smaller tip helps with that. Chances are if you spent around $150-$200 you’ll have a good gun that will do what you need it to do.
For primer, I like to use an HVLP 1.6 tip, but I don’t think a lot of the value priced guns come in that size, so anywhere from a 1.5-1.8 would work well. For along time I used an Air Gunsa 1.8 for primer and it worked great for the price at about $115. When it comes to primer guns, I know guys who buy the $25 harbor freight guns and they work just fine, since you’re always going to be sanding afterwards, just use your good gun to spray your sealer.
I don’t have much experience with HVLP gravity feed DeVilbiss, so hopefully some other guys will chime in. I think they’re the most popular for the home hobbyist and work well.
I was using a DeVilbiss Finish Line 802405 detail gun for $90, just for doing door jams, insides of trunks, or anywhere a small gun is needed. It worked pretty well, and I liked the gun until it got dropped and ruined. I ordered another one from Summit Racing, and when it came the air cap was leaking and cross threaded from the factory, and even after using it Summit took it back and exchanged it for me. When the new one came it had the same problem so I gave up and got a refund. Not sure if that was an isolated quality control incident?
September 12th, 2012, 02:40 PM
#54
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 127
Ok great. Ive been browsing the TCP Global site for deal on guns. They had or have some kit with two guns in it...prime and paint/clear gun. I was looking at the DeVilbiss guns specifically but they all seemed pretty much the same...? I know they cant be....
I found some decent parts here in Canada from Cross Canada Auto Parts...not sure if its chinese but chances are ya. They have my lower front fender patch panels and smaller quarter pieces too it seems so it may be in order to grab them up and have someone do them...then the rest myself.
I really like the AFS stuff...been watching vids and looking at sites showing them. I hate to be the dumbest kid in the class - but can I use my DA sander for most of the sanding work then the block sanding for not so perfect spots? Or is it DA for the initial harsher body fill areas...feathering etc...then the block sanding for the majority of the car?
I found some decent parts here in Canada from Cross Canada Auto Parts...not sure if its chinese but chances are ya. They have my lower front fender patch panels and smaller quarter pieces too it seems so it may be in order to grab them up and have someone do them...then the rest myself.
I really like the AFS stuff...been watching vids and looking at sites showing them. I hate to be the dumbest kid in the class - but can I use my DA sander for most of the sanding work then the block sanding for not so perfect spots? Or is it DA for the initial harsher body fill areas...feathering etc...then the block sanding for the majority of the car?
September 12th, 2012, 04:03 PM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 45
I deal with TCP Global quite a bit, they’re actually my local paint supplier. If you call their tech line, they do have a couple guys who are pretty experienced and can help narrow down the choices on DeVilbiss. I don’t want to give you an exact recommendation or anything, because I’m honestly not familiar enough with their guns, and I’m not the kind of person who does stuff like that lol.
As far as using a DA, unless you’re very skilled with a DA and have lots of body work experience, I wouldn’t recommend power tools for anything after the main rough body work (body filler stage) As far as the amount of blocking, that really depends on what you want the end result to be. If you hate seeing the little waves/ripples down the side of the car, the easiest way for a novice painter to get rid of them is by using large blocks everywhere you can, and blocking each stage of prime. I can’t say enough good things about the AFS blocks, they are worth every penny to me when it comes to getting a car arrow straight.
As far as using a DA, unless you’re very skilled with a DA and have lots of body work experience, I wouldn’t recommend power tools for anything after the main rough body work (body filler stage) As far as the amount of blocking, that really depends on what you want the end result to be. If you hate seeing the little waves/ripples down the side of the car, the easiest way for a novice painter to get rid of them is by using large blocks everywhere you can, and blocking each stage of prime. I can’t say enough good things about the AFS blocks, they are worth every penny to me when it comes to getting a car arrow straight.
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