matchek

Does anyone know who at Olds designed the 68 Olds Delmont or who is credited with it? And also the 67 Olds 442? I think the 67 Olds 442 was designed by John Boltz?

joe_padavano

It's John Beltz, and he was Oldsmobile Chief engineer starting in 1964 and division General Manager starting in 1969.

matchek

Wow I thought John Beltz was just 442 but did not know he had a say in the Delmont too. Whenever I drive the Delmont or the 442 around town , I usually get around 2 to 5 people who compliment my ride. These cars are just amazing quite frankly. Kind of spoiled that I have both of them. Thanks Joe!

joe_padavano

Beltz was not the designer who did the styling. Beltz was an engineer who was responsible for making things work. His big accomplishment was the Toronado FWD system.

matchek

Oh okay, so it still a mystery as to who sat down and designed the beautiful Delmont and 442 bodies? I wrote to Oldsmobile in 80s and they replied that they didn't know anyone in particular who designed it - just that is was group effort in the Olds designing department. But unlike other cars like the Dodge Charger, no one knows how designed these beautiful cars. Too bad because I get so many compliments and don't know who to credit.

joe_padavano

The guys you are looking for are people like David North, who led the styling on the 1966 Toronado and the 1964 GTO.

http://montanamagazines.com/magic/da...de26c302f.html

https://www.facebook.com/DavidNorth01/

no1oldsfan

The Toronado was one of the best engineered cars ever from back then. Gets very little respect. My 69 was 455 powered and just a great car. Killed it in the snow. Super stable on the highway at speed. Loved that car.

Same for the front drive Eldorado's.

matchek

Thanks Joe! I sent David and email. I saw his you tube with Jay Leno - pretty awesome. Would be great if I heard back but not banking on it.

On another note, I thought John Delorian designed the GTO? Maybe he did the mechanics ?

BangScreech4-4-2

Delorean had nothing to do with the design of the GTO or the Tempest on which it was based. He merely approved the concept, which some people will tell you was that of the first muscle car (big engine in an intermediate body). That concept, however, was actually dreamed up by Jim Wangers, Pontiac's adman, depending on whose version of the story you read.

matchek

Do you dispute what is on the Wiki website for the Pontiac GTO?

In his autobiography Glory Days, Pontiac chief marketing manager Jim Wangers, who worked for the division's contract advertising and public relations agency, states that John DeLorean, Bill Collins, and Russ Gee were responsible for the GTO's creation. It involved transforming the upcoming second-generation Pontiac Tempest (which reverted to a conventional front-engine with front transmission configuration) into a sporty car, with a larger 389 cu in (6.4 L) Pontiac V8 engine from the full-sized Pontiac Catalina and Bonneville in place of the standard 326 cu in (5.3 L) V8. By promoting the big-engine option as a special high-performance model, they could appeal to the youth market (which had also been recognized by Ford Motor Company's Lee Iacocca, who was at that time preparing the Ford Mustang variant of the second generation Ford Falcon compact).

I have a magazine from the '80s that is all about the history of the GTO. I have to re-read it. I just got sucked up with Delorean because of the recent movie.

joe_padavano

You keep confusing designers (as in stylists) with engineers with managers. Delorean was a manager who came up with the musclecar concept. Others did the actual work. Managers always take the credit, however.

Oh, and if it's on the interwebs it MUST be true then...

matchek

Thanks Joe. I don't believe everything else on the interweb. lol But what is interesting with the Wiki post, is that it is quoting Jim Wagners directly from his autobiography so that adds more weight to the subject. So Delorean came up with the concept, but Wagners came up with the body design, stacked headlights, etc?

joe_padavano

Wangers is a MARKETING guy. He had nothing to do with styling. He developed the marketing campaign. You seem to have this idea that ONE person does everything in a car company. There are hundreds of people associated with styling, engineering, marketing, interior design, etc, etc.

Diego

Jim Wangers worked for Pontiac's ad agency. He's what they call an "account guy," being the liaison between the agency and the client. Wangers had the red carpet treatment with Pontiac because he was a racer who had an uncanny sense of marketing beyond the advertising world. Wangers did not work for Pontiac, nor was he a creative (copywriter or art director) developing the ads.

BangScreech4-4-2

Of course not. Crowdsourced intelligence is never wrong.

matchek

I guess someone has to buy Jim Wagner's book to verify his quote.

BangScreech4-4-2

Well, you'll never find a copy if you keep spelling his name that way. It's W-A-N-G-E-R-S.

matchek

Thank you for the correction Sir. I should know better.

Diego

I don't think anyone doubts the veracity of the Wanger quote. I think the issue is that you can't trust everything you read online, especially on a website that can be changed by anyone. I think Wikipedia is quite valuable and can be trusted for a lot, but the car articles are hit/miss and, of course, anything that has anything to do with politics should be read with suspicion.

BangScreech4-4-2

Add to that Wangers' own penchant for hyperbole and you have a recipe for inaccuracy.

Diego

Considering Wangers was giving credit where credit was due, I wouldn't suggest there was hyperbole.