Window adjustment?!?!?!!?!!!
June 19th, 2021, 08:31 PM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,324
Window adjustment?!?!?!!?!!!
Obviously, there is a technique to adjusting windows I haven’t mastered. I have fiddled, tweaked, cussed, screamed, everything I can thin f to get the windows to open and close smoothly, and fit well. And I’m still not very happy.
I started with the quarter glass. They open a d close smooth, with the glass up the window follows the molded line in the weatherstripping. Same thing with the door glass. The problem is getting everything to open and close with the doors closed. With all the glass down, I can get each window to open and close and fit in the weatherstripping as described in the body manual. With the driver quarter window up, when I attempt to put the drivers glass up, the window wants to g up INSIDE the car, with the quarter glass weatherstripping outside
In tge 30 years I have owned this car, none of the windows sealed very well. I have replaced all the weatherstripping, rebuilt or replaced all the regulators and window guides, and still have sloppy fit.
Im done fooling with it for the summer. I’m seriously thinking of finding a competent body shop this winter and having someone who knows these cars to work their magic.
Anyone in central Indiana willing to help out a Olds fanatic? Or know of am someone or a shop?
I started with the quarter glass. They open a d close smooth, with the glass up the window follows the molded line in the weatherstripping. Same thing with the door glass. The problem is getting everything to open and close with the doors closed. With all the glass down, I can get each window to open and close and fit in the weatherstripping as described in the body manual. With the driver quarter window up, when I attempt to put the drivers glass up, the window wants to g up INSIDE the car, with the quarter glass weatherstripping outside
In tge 30 years I have owned this car, none of the windows sealed very well. I have replaced all the weatherstripping, rebuilt or replaced all the regulators and window guides, and still have sloppy fit.
Im done fooling with it for the summer. I’m seriously thinking of finding a competent body shop this winter and having someone who knows these cars to work their magic.
Anyone in central Indiana willing to help out a Olds fanatic? Or know of am someone or a shop?
June 20th, 2021, 07:49 AM
#2
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
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This is the quarter glass in the middle. The glass fits fairly evenly along the lip of the weatherstripping.
This is the drivers quarter glass where it meets the quarter panel.
This is the drivers quarter window in the fully up position.
June 20th, 2021, 08:00 AM
#3
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,705
You may be missing some of the felt bumpers that push the front window glass outward / outboard. They’re easy to lose.
Getting windows right (or close to it) takes time & patience. I have a few posts on what little know on window regulators and adjustment that describe what I’ve learned, right or wrong, over the years. I won’t rewrite all that here, but a few tips may help.
Starting with the rear quarters is the right move, unless you’re replacing door hinges. That’s a whole ‘nuther story. My logic is “you can’t move the roofline at the rear quarters, so make those windows fit first”. Then make the fronts fit the rears.
Adjusting In/Out
If you have trouble with the in/out angle when the windows are up, be aware that the adjustment screws at the bottom of the regulators affect the in/out-ness of the _tops_ of the window. As you turn those lower screws clockwise, it pushes the tops of the windows outward when they’re at the top of their travel. Sounds weird, but since the regulator channels are curved, those lower screws pull the window tops outward. When windows are in the down position, the rear channel locating bolts at the top rear of the door have more influence on the in/out-ness of the glass.
Also look out for in/out skew or glass toe-in/toe-out from front to rear. As they go up, both glass pieces should be parallel to the body panels and end up with enough weatherstripping gasket crush to form a water/wind tight seal.
Regulator Slotted-End Screws
To get there, make sure the rear windows are right first using the in/out rear regulator screws. Again bottom screws control in/out when the windows are up, top screws have more influence on windows when they’re down. This assumes you have the correct length screws in the right places. In my ‘66 big cars, Olds used short and long adjustment screws. I can’t speak to other years/models with authority, but if you’re looking at the screws for all 4 windows, the same length screw should be in each adjustment location.
The next problem is that these screws with slotted ends get bent over the years of tension on them. And the ends get mangled by vice grips wielded by frustrated gorillas like me. If yours are bent or mangled, get new from the boneyard. Also have a tap & die set to clean them up. If I recall correctly GM used 1/4-24 threads on these screws, so if you get this far in, clean up the threads.
This also assumes your screws are not rusted in place. If so, you’ll need to (ugh, F*, whatever), pull the regulators de-rust the screws and oil them up so you can adjust them. I’ve been using Evaporust lately and it works great for cleaning / derusting. Get 3-5 gallons, you’ll need to dunk those very long steel pieces and that means a pretty big plastic box filled with the stuff. So you’ll need a lot of stuff too.
Off car Adjustments / Starting point
If your car is as GM intended it (not hit, tweaked, bent or broken), most of the screw adjustments should be somewhere near the center of their travel. I generally think of screws or other window adjustments in extreme positions as evidence of me getting it wrong. I must admit, though, that I _do_ have some adjustments at their extremes.
If you want to get really precise, you might make a map of the screws on each side and count the threads on the outside of the regulators. Or carefully measure the offset horizontal distance between inner door skin and inboard regulator wall. Your default position with the regulators out of the car should be about the middle of their travel, then start adjusting from there.
Oh h*ll, just shim it
I have 1 inch wide by 1/2 or 3/4 deep closed cell foam shim strips above my roof rail steel to more or less shove the roof rail down tight onto the glass. Starting at the roof leading edge, I run it full depth above the front door, then taper the depth toward the rear. This has helped, but it’s fiddly, custom, and not what the factory intended. On the convertible, I’ve used 1” wide rubber strips the same was but material more similar to the convertible roof rail seals convertibles use.
Go Professional
You’re right to think of using a shop for this. It’s very slow & frustrating work since each adjustment affects most/all of the others. The reason I post these tips is that it will be difficult to find a shop who will want to do this work all these years later, and it will be pure labor $$ as they do the work. If it were me, I’d try to find a shop with an old guy 50+ in years who has done this before. Not a knock on younger guys at all, but they will not have grown up with these systems and would likely need to learn from scratch, pushing your costs up as they learn.
You might check in with John Osborn of Osborn interiors in Logansport, IN. We almost did a deal on some strato buckets, but I went reproduction in the end. I have the impression he knows these systems from years of interior work and might be a good resource. Being on the other side of the country, I didn’t meet him or work with him other than a few conversations, be he seemed to know his stuff and he’s in IN.
Good luck with water tight, non-whistling, air-tight windows that move easily & close correctly.
Chris
Getting windows right (or close to it) takes time & patience. I have a few posts on what little know on window regulators and adjustment that describe what I’ve learned, right or wrong, over the years. I won’t rewrite all that here, but a few tips may help.
Starting with the rear quarters is the right move, unless you’re replacing door hinges. That’s a whole ‘nuther story. My logic is “you can’t move the roofline at the rear quarters, so make those windows fit first”. Then make the fronts fit the rears.
Adjusting In/Out
If you have trouble with the in/out angle when the windows are up, be aware that the adjustment screws at the bottom of the regulators affect the in/out-ness of the _tops_ of the window. As you turn those lower screws clockwise, it pushes the tops of the windows outward when they’re at the top of their travel. Sounds weird, but since the regulator channels are curved, those lower screws pull the window tops outward. When windows are in the down position, the rear channel locating bolts at the top rear of the door have more influence on the in/out-ness of the glass.
Also look out for in/out skew or glass toe-in/toe-out from front to rear. As they go up, both glass pieces should be parallel to the body panels and end up with enough weatherstripping gasket crush to form a water/wind tight seal.
Regulator Slotted-End Screws
To get there, make sure the rear windows are right first using the in/out rear regulator screws. Again bottom screws control in/out when the windows are up, top screws have more influence on windows when they’re down. This assumes you have the correct length screws in the right places. In my ‘66 big cars, Olds used short and long adjustment screws. I can’t speak to other years/models with authority, but if you’re looking at the screws for all 4 windows, the same length screw should be in each adjustment location.
The next problem is that these screws with slotted ends get bent over the years of tension on them. And the ends get mangled by vice grips wielded by frustrated gorillas like me. If yours are bent or mangled, get new from the boneyard. Also have a tap & die set to clean them up. If I recall correctly GM used 1/4-24 threads on these screws, so if you get this far in, clean up the threads.
This also assumes your screws are not rusted in place. If so, you’ll need to (ugh, F*, whatever), pull the regulators de-rust the screws and oil them up so you can adjust them. I’ve been using Evaporust lately and it works great for cleaning / derusting. Get 3-5 gallons, you’ll need to dunk those very long steel pieces and that means a pretty big plastic box filled with the stuff. So you’ll need a lot of stuff too.
Off car Adjustments / Starting point
If your car is as GM intended it (not hit, tweaked, bent or broken), most of the screw adjustments should be somewhere near the center of their travel. I generally think of screws or other window adjustments in extreme positions as evidence of me getting it wrong. I must admit, though, that I _do_ have some adjustments at their extremes.
If you want to get really precise, you might make a map of the screws on each side and count the threads on the outside of the regulators. Or carefully measure the offset horizontal distance between inner door skin and inboard regulator wall. Your default position with the regulators out of the car should be about the middle of their travel, then start adjusting from there.
Oh h*ll, just shim it
I have 1 inch wide by 1/2 or 3/4 deep closed cell foam shim strips above my roof rail steel to more or less shove the roof rail down tight onto the glass. Starting at the roof leading edge, I run it full depth above the front door, then taper the depth toward the rear. This has helped, but it’s fiddly, custom, and not what the factory intended. On the convertible, I’ve used 1” wide rubber strips the same was but material more similar to the convertible roof rail seals convertibles use.
Go Professional
You’re right to think of using a shop for this. It’s very slow & frustrating work since each adjustment affects most/all of the others. The reason I post these tips is that it will be difficult to find a shop who will want to do this work all these years later, and it will be pure labor $$ as they do the work. If it were me, I’d try to find a shop with an old guy 50+ in years who has done this before. Not a knock on younger guys at all, but they will not have grown up with these systems and would likely need to learn from scratch, pushing your costs up as they learn.
You might check in with John Osborn of Osborn interiors in Logansport, IN. We almost did a deal on some strato buckets, but I went reproduction in the end. I have the impression he knows these systems from years of interior work and might be a good resource. Being on the other side of the country, I didn’t meet him or work with him other than a few conversations, be he seemed to know his stuff and he’s in IN.
Good luck with water tight, non-whistling, air-tight windows that move easily & close correctly.
Chris
June 20th, 2021, 08:05 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,324
Drivers glass. It could go up just a bit more in my opinion, but for whatever reason the regulator won’t oust the glass any higher.
This is the upper
The lower corner, where the door, A pillar, and window all meet. Once again, fairly evenly contacting the weatherstripping.
And the problem I’m trying to overcome. With the quarter window up, when you roll up the drivers glass the window is on the INSIDE of the car. You can’t open the door, the door glass catches on the quarter glass. WTF?!
corner of the drivers window, where the glass meets the A pillar and roof. Once again, the glass fits the lip of the weatherstripping fairly evenly.
June 20th, 2021, 08:09 AM
#6
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Medford, Oregon
Posts: 13,751
Matt, if your missing some of the felt bumpers that Chris suggested I've stripped down some doors before shipping them. I may have what your missing. Do you have a good diagram of what the internals of the door should contain?
John
John
June 20th, 2021, 09:58 AM
#7
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,705
I saw the photos after I wrote that stuff above. Here are some thoughts.
Not a snark, but your sponge seal roof rail rubber looks a little worn. That makes your job harder since you’re trying to get glass to sponge crush rubber that’s further from the limit of glass movement. If you’re up for replacement, see if you can get a pair that have a proper corner on the front/leading upper edge instead of just one long extrusion. If want a quick fix, try my shimming suggestion above. Any foam rubber shim you get would go above the stainless steel that the roof rail rubber fits into. Rresh roofrail rubber = tighter seal
For that front driver’s window at the top, my first move would be to loosen the travel stops, if you have them. They are the vertical pieces of aluminum or steel probably with 7/16’s heads which may be preventing full crush of the window to the sponge rubber. In my cars there are front and rear stops. See your Fisher Body Manual for where yours are and what they look like. The idea with the vertical stops is to wind/crank the window exactly where you want it for tightness, then secondarily tighten the stops - maybe even a 1/8” low to make the window just a tick tighter.
Make sure that the rear quarter window is pushed rearward enough into the sponge rubber to make a seal, but not so far that it prevents the rear window from crushing into the upper roof rail rubber. It looks like you might have an 1/8” to 3/16”s to work with there.
Make sure that the rear window is adjusted to crush inward a little tighter against the roof rail rubber. This may ease the front/rear interference problem. If the rear window is tighter inward, the front doesn’t have to be so far outward to clear up when raising. This is especially true of the rear window leading edge which (against my advice above) you may be able to **** inwards a degree or 2 to make the clearance problem better. If front and rear inward tightness are a little different, that’s o.k., but not much more than a few degrees.
The last trick I’d recommend is see if the trailing vertical edge of the front windows are parallel to the vertical chrome edge of the rear quarter window. If they’re not parallel, your front window is cocked up or down on the fore/aft axis. Again a degree or 2 of up/down cocked attitude may be fine, but not 20 degrees. In fact in my cars the roof shape more or less requires the windows to cocked down to the rear just a few degrees. Your car may be different.
Across all these adjustments very fine movements matter. That’s a part of what makes it so time consuming. I walk away when I get frustrated and come back when I’m calm. Put the radio on on the background, have a snack, and take your time.
Amazing that something as seemingly simple as a window going up and down can be this hard. At least Olds left us tons & tons of analog adjustability.
Not a snark, but your sponge seal roof rail rubber looks a little worn. That makes your job harder since you’re trying to get glass to sponge crush rubber that’s further from the limit of glass movement. If you’re up for replacement, see if you can get a pair that have a proper corner on the front/leading upper edge instead of just one long extrusion. If want a quick fix, try my shimming suggestion above. Any foam rubber shim you get would go above the stainless steel that the roof rail rubber fits into. Rresh roofrail rubber = tighter seal
For that front driver’s window at the top, my first move would be to loosen the travel stops, if you have them. They are the vertical pieces of aluminum or steel probably with 7/16’s heads which may be preventing full crush of the window to the sponge rubber. In my cars there are front and rear stops. See your Fisher Body Manual for where yours are and what they look like. The idea with the vertical stops is to wind/crank the window exactly where you want it for tightness, then secondarily tighten the stops - maybe even a 1/8” low to make the window just a tick tighter.
Make sure that the rear quarter window is pushed rearward enough into the sponge rubber to make a seal, but not so far that it prevents the rear window from crushing into the upper roof rail rubber. It looks like you might have an 1/8” to 3/16”s to work with there.
Make sure that the rear window is adjusted to crush inward a little tighter against the roof rail rubber. This may ease the front/rear interference problem. If the rear window is tighter inward, the front doesn’t have to be so far outward to clear up when raising. This is especially true of the rear window leading edge which (against my advice above) you may be able to **** inwards a degree or 2 to make the clearance problem better. If front and rear inward tightness are a little different, that’s o.k., but not much more than a few degrees.
The last trick I’d recommend is see if the trailing vertical edge of the front windows are parallel to the vertical chrome edge of the rear quarter window. If they’re not parallel, your front window is cocked up or down on the fore/aft axis. Again a degree or 2 of up/down cocked attitude may be fine, but not 20 degrees. In fact in my cars the roof shape more or less requires the windows to cocked down to the rear just a few degrees. Your car may be different.
Across all these adjustments very fine movements matter. That’s a part of what makes it so time consuming. I walk away when I get frustrated and come back when I’m calm. Put the radio on on the background, have a snack, and take your time.
Amazing that something as seemingly simple as a window going up and down can be this hard. At least Olds left us tons & tons of analog adjustability.
June 20th, 2021, 06:16 PM
#8
Art S
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Warwick, RI
Posts: 515
The weather stripping was missing on the driver's side when I first got the car and noticed the passenger side was bad and needed replacing. The doors would close nicely with just a small push and had a nice click. After I replaced the driver's side weather strip and the windows were up I had to slam the door to get it to shut and even then it would bounce the window and when I opened the door with the windows up the front window would get stuck in the rear window where they met. The passenger side was almost the same after changing the strip and closed nicely as it did before. I had replaced the strip where the front and back window met too. What I found was the strip where it ended around the vent window wasn't tucked all the way in the groove. I pulled it back out and saw there was old weather strip packed in the groove and was causing the new strip to bulge out and it was twisting the window frame. I also had installed the quarter window strip on the wrong sides. After I cleaned out the channel and put the strip back in and switched sides of the quarter strip everything was ok.
It might be something to look at in addition to the suggestions from the op.
It might be something to look at in addition to the suggestions from the op.
June 20th, 2021, 07:31 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: central Indiana
Posts: 5,324
I do have all the felt guides in place, I found some really nice ones on a passenger side door.
The roof rail weatherstripping is a few years old. I bought some new weatherstripping at a swap last fall, I didn’t feel any difference in crush of softness, so I decided to save it for when/if what I have gets damaged.
I know the guys in Logansport, that guy does EXCELLENT work. While I hate spending money for things I feel I SHOULD be able to do on my own (it’s trial a d error, there isn’t anything you can really damage with misadjusted windows) but I have tried for years to get the glass sealed up. I may just bite the bullet, I’m not having any luck on my own.
I know I’ll never have a Lexus quiet ride, but if just be happy if the first thing people do when riding in the car is try to roll up the windows, thinking they are slightly down.
The roof rail weatherstripping is a few years old. I bought some new weatherstripping at a swap last fall, I didn’t feel any difference in crush of softness, so I decided to save it for when/if what I have gets damaged.
I know the guys in Logansport, that guy does EXCELLENT work. While I hate spending money for things I feel I SHOULD be able to do on my own (it’s trial a d error, there isn’t anything you can really damage with misadjusted windows) but I have tried for years to get the glass sealed up. I may just bite the bullet, I’m not having any luck on my own.
I know I’ll never have a Lexus quiet ride, but if just be happy if the first thing people do when riding in the car is try to roll up the windows, thinking they are slightly down.
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