68 ram rod
May 21st, 2015, 09:36 AM
#81
CH3NO2 LEARN IT BURN IT
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So my info is missing 3667 & 3677. Anyone have the correct breakdown on 68 RRs so I can update my ancient data? These two must be in the 674 total? Less 3667 as I dont think there were any.
674-106=568. So is it 568 3687s and 106 3677?
674-106=568. So is it 568 3687s and 106 3677?
Last edited by droldsmorland; May 21st, 2015 at 09:39 AM.
May 21st, 2015, 09:39 AM
#82
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It ain't rocket science(no pun intended). The ONLY way for a flat top piston engine to increase the CR is to decrease the head CC volume. So the previous poster said,an OEM 68 RAM ROD virgin head will have to be checked to clear up the mystery. There has been too many printed variations of the CR to verify using that info.
May 21st, 2015, 10:27 AM
#83
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I need to be schooled here.
My numbers for 68 Ram Rods are as follows:
1968 W31 cars (non 442) Total production 742 across the line.
38 3277 F85 C.Coupes
674 3687 Cutlass Hard tops
30 4287 Cutlass S
Where is the 3677 in this? Granted my info sheet comes from one of Year Ones first catalogs when the pages were hand typed. So somethings wrong with my info.
My numbers for 68 Ram Rods are as follows:
1968 W31 cars (non 442) Total production 742 across the line.
38 3277 F85 C.Coupes
674 3687 Cutlass Hard tops
30 4287 Cutlass S
Where is the 3677 in this? Granted my info sheet comes from one of Year Ones first catalogs when the pages were hand typed. So somethings wrong with my info.
cant go by year one unfortunately
May 21st, 2015, 10:29 AM
#84
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Per Dave H he believes only 500 were made.
May 21st, 2015, 10:41 AM
#86
CH3NO2 LEARN IT BURN IT
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Thanks Dean. If you come across further break downs let me know. This is the only discrepancy in the old YO cat. Ive been using it for many years fortunately not for 68 RRs.
I thought I had some correspondence from Mrs.Early when I was looking at a 68 RR and 69 W31 back in 84-85. I know she sent me her numbers but I've moved so many times since then I cant find it!
I thought I had some correspondence from Mrs.Early when I was looking at a 68 RR and 69 W31 back in 84-85. I know she sent me her numbers but I've moved so many times since then I cant find it!
May 21st, 2015, 01:07 PM
#87
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Apologies to all, Kurt sent me this and find his info always accurate. He is a wealth of knowledge and dedicates his time to find the facts. So sounds like more than 500, 674 to be exact per this info.
Production numbers. I truly believe the following is it. I have that document you just posted too, and it backs up what I have:
38 3277 F85 Club Coupes
674 3600 Cutlass S *series* (this includes 3677 Cutlass S Sports Coupes and 3687 Cutlass S Holiday Coupes)
30 4287 Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupes
742 total
The 674 makes sense that it is from the series, as I have other production numbers from other years that report by series, not exact models. And that may be all Helen had at the time too. The 38 and the 30 are probably by “series” too, but there was only one model in those 2 series that could have a W31. Yes Dave did say it was 500 (or close) units. But he left the line shortly after the “500” were run and admits that possibly more did get made before the end of the year, though they wouldn’t have had the special handling the first 500 had.
Kurt
Production numbers. I truly believe the following is it. I have that document you just posted too, and it backs up what I have:
38 3277 F85 Club Coupes
674 3600 Cutlass S *series* (this includes 3677 Cutlass S Sports Coupes and 3687 Cutlass S Holiday Coupes)
30 4287 Cutlass Supreme Holiday Coupes
742 total
The 674 makes sense that it is from the series, as I have other production numbers from other years that report by series, not exact models. And that may be all Helen had at the time too. The 38 and the 30 are probably by “series” too, but there was only one model in those 2 series that could have a W31. Yes Dave did say it was 500 (or close) units. But he left the line shortly after the “500” were run and admits that possibly more did get made before the end of the year, though they wouldn’t have had the special handling the first 500 had.
Kurt
May 21st, 2015, 01:21 PM
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daveh said the first 500 were the specially prepped ones (or slightly more than 500 according to dave). I don't think the ones produced later received the level of attention the first 500 did.
May 21st, 2015, 01:49 PM
#91
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Dean,
You are correct.
Here's a nice write up daveh did on V8 Buick years ago that I copied:
didn't intend this to get this detailed and long. Have toyed with the idea of writing a small book on this from time to time. That'll probably never happen, so here it is. If boring to you, just skip over it. There's more to the story, but I get into arguments every time I say anything about that.....also the same reason I won't take my car to the OCA shows anymore...but some of it isn't for public knowledge and could never be verified. It came directly from the people involved and some of it witnessed personally. Not something you put in print, and I won't. It had to do with why Olds released the Ramrod in the first place (never intended for production) and the inner GM challenge by another division that resulted in its immediate release in time for the 68 Springnationals.
There's a few errors and omissions in this writeup from 442.com. I offered to help them amend them after I heard about this, but they weren't interested. That has resulted in most serious Olds aficionados not using the 442.com info as gospel truth on these and other cars. This info is at least 10 years old and not much was known about them back then. All in all, not a bad summary, probably the most complete one I've seen and even has the build figure more in line with how many were actually produced on line. There were so few of these around in later years, especially the 68's since most ended up as race cars and were chopped up and destroyed early in life. They weren't heavily promoted and around and only insiders knew about them before their debut at the 1968 NHRA Springnationals where they cleaned up. 69's and 70's were much more well known and some of the info applies to the 68's. But some of the stuff that happened on the 68's did not happen on the 69's and 70's or any other W car. Olds marketing kinda let that remain unspoken and took advantage of spreading it across all the Olds performance models.
1968:
Authentication:
Special carb number 7028255.
F-85 W-31 "Ram Rod". I believe Olds only produced 501 of them.
There were 5 or 6 more, but were standard Cutlasses built on line, but modified at the Olds Experimental garage ahead of the 500 car production run for test and development cars. Most notable of those 5 was the 2 tone green F85 coupe in all the magazine articles back then and also the one shown in the Motion Markowitz ads. VERY fast car, and the one I got a chance to take around the block and resulted in my changing my first new car order from a loaded 442 convertible to the Ramrod I still have and race in Pure Stock.
A couple of the inaccuracies and incomplete info are:
Technically, the W-31 was only built in 1969 and 1970. While not called a W-31, the equivalent vehicle was available and called the "Ram Rod 350" in 1968.
It wasn't an equivalent vehicle, the option code for the Ramrod was W31. It was only called that after the marketing/promo guys got into the act for the 1969 model year with the "Dr Oldsmobile" promo program. It was still called a Ramrod like the fender decals all through the 68 year including the Smothers brothers cars. Unfortunately, the marketing/promo guys got carried away and tried to cash in on the Ramrod reputation from the drag racing successes starting in the Springnationals of 1968 and throughout that summer. They put "Ramrod" decals on the air cleaners of not only the W31 in 1969, but also the W30 and W32 with a "Ramrod 400" designation. The W30's needed all the help they could get after the word was out on the disappointing performance of the small bore/long stroke 400 G block that came out in 1968. The 65-67 442's also used a 400, but it was a smaller bore 425 with the shorter stroke and were very fast.
One of the ways that you can help 'identify' a W-31 is that they used a lot less sound deadening material to save some weight. Close the trunk lid. If it sounds nice and solid and tight, that isn't a good sign. But it MAY have been replaced, so this is not a guarantee. If it sounds hollow, like you're clanging an empty steel trash can, then this will signify a W-trunk lid. Also, the firewall pad, if it is original, is very thin compared to non-Ws.
B.S. A few of the early cars were designated to be racecars from the start and were funneled out to the dealer sponsored race teams and independents that had factory backing (lots of it). These cars were built on a special "red border" engineering release rather than the regular production release. Most of the first batch of 50 (Jan, 1968) and all of the 450 cars (balance of the 500 car build) had normal non A/C sound deadening and firewall pads.
Exclusive to the W-31 was a special bend in the fuel line near the fuel pump. It's WHERE the bend occurs that determines the W-31. The W-31's have the bend clamped to the frame after the plate that is welded between the channels of the frame, whereas non-W-31's have the bend clamped to the frame on that plate.
More B.S., but with explanation. This clip was added to the preproduction on line built cars (we called them pilot cars) and "mules" built in the engineering garage but eliminated before the 500 unit production build. The Ramrods used the 442 3/8 inch fuel line system which was 3/8 in main fuel with a return line. All other 350 cars used a 5/16 inch line with a fuel return line on A/C vehicles only. My guess is they hand fitted the 3/8 inch line on one of the mules and determined they needed that bend and clip. Not sure how they did it, but it was gone before we built the 500 on line.
The car should have front AND rear sway bars with boxed lower rear control arms like the 4-4-2.
Again, wrong on the Ramrods, but correct on the 69 and 70's. The 68 did have the same front sway bar and spring/shock usage as the 442, but standard Cutlass rear suspension without the sway bar. It was a glitch in the way the computer released the FE2 heavy duty suspension option on the Cutlasses. It was done by the model series of the car not the W31 package. The 442's were a separate model designation starting in 1968 (and lasted through 1971). The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year. Most of us added these to our Ramrods as it was night and day difference in the handling, but dubious advantage in drag racing. Individual air bags negated any advantage of the rear bars and the boxed arms and sway bar only added to the unsprung weight of the rear suspension....that was a real problem in all the 67-70 type O axles and why they developed and offered the W27 aluminum housing and cover for the 1970 model year (only year used). Pretty and unique, but fell apart under racing conditions. Cover only remained available, but didn't fit the new 8.5 corporate axles that came out in 1971. Aftermarket has them now for that 8.5 and also the 12 bolt Chev axle.
Exhaust manifolds were the same as the standard 350. But BOTH exhaust pipes and mufflers were 2 1/4" inlets (2" outlet).
Again partially correct and incomplete. 68's did not have the 2 1/4 inch LH head pipe (and muffler inlet), but used the standard 2 inch pipe on the drivers side that was released in the N10 dual exhaust option package. LH exhaust manifold outlet was still 2 inch like the N10's. 1969 and 1970 used special low restriction (W30) mufflers. Louder and much less restrictive. Didn't make much difference on the W31 or the 68 W30 cars due to the restrictive exhaust manifolds used on them. The W/Z big block dual exhaust manifolds came out in 1969 and then the mufflers were effective. They were much better flowing and chambered on the center two cylinders on each side. All W31 and W32 engine packages were designed to take full advantage of aftermarket headers as most everyone that was serious about Olds performance back then put them on immediately. The W31's gained about 25 horsepower over the cast iron exhaust manifolds and explained most of the difference between the advertised hp of these engines (325 at 5600) and the actual of closer to 400 with open headers with no other changes. The headers took advantage of the much higher RPM's where it really got fun on these
There's a few errors and omissions in this writeup from 442.com. I offered to help them amend them after I heard about this, but they weren't interested. That has resulted in most serious Olds aficionados not using the 442.com info as gospel truth on these and other cars. This info is at least 10 years old and not much was known about them back then. All in all, not a bad summary, probably the most complete one I've seen and even has the build figure more in line with how many were actually produced on line. There were so few of these around in later years, especially the 68's since most ended up as race cars and were chopped up and destroyed early in life. They weren't heavily promoted and around and only insiders knew about them before their debut at the 1968 NHRA Springnationals where they cleaned up. 69's and 70's were much more well known and some of the info applies to the 68's. But some of the stuff that happened on the 68's did not happen on the 69's and 70's or any other W car. Olds marketing kinda let that remain unspoken and took advantage of spreading it across all the Olds performance models.
1968:
Authentication:
Special carb number 7028255.
F-85 W-31 "Ram Rod". I believe Olds only produced 501 of them.
There were 5 or 6 more, but were standard Cutlasses built on line, but modified at the Olds Experimental garage ahead of the 500 car production run for test and development cars. Most notable of those 5 was the 2 tone green F85 coupe in all the magazine articles back then and also the one shown in the Motion Markowitz ads. VERY fast car, and the one I got a chance to take around the block and resulted in my changing my first new car order from a loaded 442 convertible to the Ramrod I still have and race in Pure Stock.
A couple of the inaccuracies and incomplete info are:
Technically, the W-31 was only built in 1969 and 1970. While not called a W-31, the equivalent vehicle was available and called the "Ram Rod 350" in 1968.
It wasn't an equivalent vehicle, the option code for the Ramrod was W31. It was only called that after the marketing/promo guys got into the act for the 1969 model year with the "Dr Oldsmobile" promo program. It was still called a Ramrod like the fender decals all through the 68 year including the Smothers brothers cars. Unfortunately, the marketing/promo guys got carried away and tried to cash in on the Ramrod reputation from the drag racing successes starting in the Springnationals of 1968 and throughout that summer. They put "Ramrod" decals on the air cleaners of not only the W31 in 1969, but also the W30 and W32 with a "Ramrod 400" designation. The W30's needed all the help they could get after the word was out on the disappointing performance of the small bore/long stroke 400 G block that came out in 1968. The 65-67 442's also used a 400, but it was a smaller bore 425 with the shorter stroke and were very fast.
One of the ways that you can help 'identify' a W-31 is that they used a lot less sound deadening material to save some weight. Close the trunk lid. If it sounds nice and solid and tight, that isn't a good sign. But it MAY have been replaced, so this is not a guarantee. If it sounds hollow, like you're clanging an empty steel trash can, then this will signify a W-trunk lid. Also, the firewall pad, if it is original, is very thin compared to non-Ws.
B.S. A few of the early cars were designated to be racecars from the start and were funneled out to the dealer sponsored race teams and independents that had factory backing (lots of it). These cars were built on a special "red border" engineering release rather than the regular production release. Most of the first batch of 50 (Jan, 1968) and all of the 450 cars (balance of the 500 car build) had normal non A/C sound deadening and firewall pads.
Exclusive to the W-31 was a special bend in the fuel line near the fuel pump. It's WHERE the bend occurs that determines the W-31. The W-31's have the bend clamped to the frame after the plate that is welded between the channels of the frame, whereas non-W-31's have the bend clamped to the frame on that plate.
More B.S., but with explanation. This clip was added to the preproduction on line built cars (we called them pilot cars) and "mules" built in the engineering garage but eliminated before the 500 unit production build. The Ramrods used the 442 3/8 inch fuel line system which was 3/8 in main fuel with a return line. All other 350 cars used a 5/16 inch line with a fuel return line on A/C vehicles only. My guess is they hand fitted the 3/8 inch line on one of the mules and determined they needed that bend and clip. Not sure how they did it, but it was gone before we built the 500 on line.
The car should have front AND rear sway bars with boxed lower rear control arms like the 4-4-2.
Again, wrong on the Ramrods, but correct on the 69 and 70's. The 68 did have the same front sway bar and spring/shock usage as the 442, but standard Cutlass rear suspension without the sway bar. It was a glitch in the way the computer released the FE2 heavy duty suspension option on the Cutlasses. It was done by the model series of the car not the W31 package. The 442's were a separate model designation starting in 1968 (and lasted through 1971). The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year. Most of us added these to our Ramrods as it was night and day difference in the handling, but dubious advantage in drag racing. Individual air bags negated any advantage of the rear bars and the boxed arms and sway bar only added to the unsprung weight of the rear suspension....that was a real problem in all the 67-70 type O axles and why they developed and offered the W27 aluminum housing and cover for the 1970 model year (only year used). Pretty and unique, but fell apart under racing conditions. Cover only remained available, but didn't fit the new 8.5 corporate axles that came out in 1971. Aftermarket has them now for that 8.5 and also the 12 bolt Chev axle.
Exhaust manifolds were the same as the standard 350. But BOTH exhaust pipes and mufflers were 2 1/4" inlets (2" outlet).
Again partially correct and incomplete. 68's did not have the 2 1/4 inch LH head pipe (and muffler inlet), but used the standard 2 inch pipe on the drivers side that was released in the N10 dual exhaust option package. LH exhaust manifold outlet was still 2 inch like the N10's. 1969 and 1970 used special low restriction (W30) mufflers. Louder and much less restrictive. Didn't make much difference on the W31 or the 68 W30 cars due to the restrictive exhaust manifolds used on them. The W/Z big block dual exhaust manifolds came out in 1969 and then the mufflers were effective. They were much better flowing and chambered on the center two cylinders on each side. All W31 and W32 engine packages were designed to take full advantage of aftermarket headers as most everyone that was serious about Olds performance back then put them on immediately. The W31's gained about 25 horsepower over the cast iron exhaust manifolds and explained most of the difference between the advertised hp of these engines (325 at 5600) and the actual of closer to 400 with open headers with no other changes. The headers took advantage of the much higher RPM's where it really got fun on these
Last edited by allyolds68; May 21st, 2015 at 01:51 PM.
May 21st, 2015, 01:50 PM
#92
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seneca Falls, NY
Posts: 5,266
additional information:
not mentioned (and probably unknown to the providers of this info at the time) were that the 68 ramrods did not come with a fan shroud (that was released as part of the c60 a/c package on 350 cars, standard on all 4400 series cars (442).
Also the chrome p05 ss1 wheels were not available on any cutlass model at the time the 68 ramrods were built (50 in jan, 1968, and 450 more in march and april 1968). Only the plain steel 14 x 6 (442) wheels were available (standard equipment) and the new for 1968 motor wheel ssii released later under the n66 option code. Huge problem with people that ordered early 1968 cutlasses with the chrome magnum 500 style ss1 p05 wheels, but car was delivered with these new painted wheels. Olds screwed up here and substituted in the wheel change early in the 1968 model year in the same option designation (p05) without telling the dealers or anyone else. Not good. Many pissed off buyers that wanted the chrome wheel and didn't (and couldn't) get the one they wanted. I heard of dealers changing them to the ss1's when customers were irate and refused delivery of the car unless they did. Very few w31's (or 442's for that matter) came out with plain wheels and dog dishes. Ones that did were slated only for racing, or the owners went straight to the tire stores and bought a set of chrome reverse, cragar ss, or other aftermarket wheels. You wouldn't be seen dead with plain el strippo wheels. Ones that did ran without the hubcaps anyway.
What's really unknown (or was for many years), was the fact that much of the unique engine parts for the 500 car special build of the 68's came in individual boxes from the suppliers, not in the normal high volume process and packaging. All engines were assembled in a special area of the olds engine plant (where the parts were delivered) where the w30 and other low volume engines with unique parts were built. Those parts as listed in 442.com are the unique camshaft, pistons, carburetor, harmonic balancer (crank damper), and most significantly the complete cylinder heads. The heads were the trick on the w31's and what made them so different from the standard 310 hp 350's (even if you added the larger valves). It's highly possible that the 68's had some trick head castings fed into the system at the outside shop from the casting supplier. No one would ever admit that, as all manufacturers had their special parts for their race cars with the correct production identification numbers on them. The castings were not taken from the normal inventory already inside oldsmobile. The castings went directly from the casting supplier to the outside shop that machined and assembled them. Everything was dead nuts on these heads and included cc checks of the combustion chambers. These heads took full advantage of the "sweet spot" in this package without any special porting. Other heads can perform as well and maybe even better with the larger valves and minor porting by someone who knows how to do it. But that was illegal then in stock classes and still today in pure stock and factory stock racing. The valve springs and retainers were aftermarket and special also.
All of the 1968 ramrod engines were sent over to the engineering dynometer for special performance hp and torque checks. A copy of those dyno runs was kept on file in the engine plant and a few of us were lucky enough to get a copy of our own engines curves. They were looking for the 325 hp rating at 5600 and were not run over 6000. The hp curve was still climbing at that point.
The 1969 and 1970 models were built on the normal assembly lines and delivered to the final assembly line on the regular engine delivery monorail conveyor. The 68's were delivered on engine dollies to the assembly line from the engineering dynos. When it arrived in finalk car assembly, this was the flag that a particular car was ok to be scheduled and started down the line.
There's more, like the special unique clutch and pressure plates (actually a scheiffer unit) that already had a gm part number assigned to it from chevrolet on the l88 corvettes.
A lot of this special handling was also rumored to be on a lot more w cars back then, but the only ones that were dedicated as race cars and special batch built were the 54 1966 w30 cars and the 500 68 ramrods.
Sorry for the epistle, but i get on a roll in the middle of the night.
not mentioned (and probably unknown to the providers of this info at the time) were that the 68 ramrods did not come with a fan shroud (that was released as part of the c60 a/c package on 350 cars, standard on all 4400 series cars (442).
Also the chrome p05 ss1 wheels were not available on any cutlass model at the time the 68 ramrods were built (50 in jan, 1968, and 450 more in march and april 1968). Only the plain steel 14 x 6 (442) wheels were available (standard equipment) and the new for 1968 motor wheel ssii released later under the n66 option code. Huge problem with people that ordered early 1968 cutlasses with the chrome magnum 500 style ss1 p05 wheels, but car was delivered with these new painted wheels. Olds screwed up here and substituted in the wheel change early in the 1968 model year in the same option designation (p05) without telling the dealers or anyone else. Not good. Many pissed off buyers that wanted the chrome wheel and didn't (and couldn't) get the one they wanted. I heard of dealers changing them to the ss1's when customers were irate and refused delivery of the car unless they did. Very few w31's (or 442's for that matter) came out with plain wheels and dog dishes. Ones that did were slated only for racing, or the owners went straight to the tire stores and bought a set of chrome reverse, cragar ss, or other aftermarket wheels. You wouldn't be seen dead with plain el strippo wheels. Ones that did ran without the hubcaps anyway.
What's really unknown (or was for many years), was the fact that much of the unique engine parts for the 500 car special build of the 68's came in individual boxes from the suppliers, not in the normal high volume process and packaging. All engines were assembled in a special area of the olds engine plant (where the parts were delivered) where the w30 and other low volume engines with unique parts were built. Those parts as listed in 442.com are the unique camshaft, pistons, carburetor, harmonic balancer (crank damper), and most significantly the complete cylinder heads. The heads were the trick on the w31's and what made them so different from the standard 310 hp 350's (even if you added the larger valves). It's highly possible that the 68's had some trick head castings fed into the system at the outside shop from the casting supplier. No one would ever admit that, as all manufacturers had their special parts for their race cars with the correct production identification numbers on them. The castings were not taken from the normal inventory already inside oldsmobile. The castings went directly from the casting supplier to the outside shop that machined and assembled them. Everything was dead nuts on these heads and included cc checks of the combustion chambers. These heads took full advantage of the "sweet spot" in this package without any special porting. Other heads can perform as well and maybe even better with the larger valves and minor porting by someone who knows how to do it. But that was illegal then in stock classes and still today in pure stock and factory stock racing. The valve springs and retainers were aftermarket and special also.
All of the 1968 ramrod engines were sent over to the engineering dynometer for special performance hp and torque checks. A copy of those dyno runs was kept on file in the engine plant and a few of us were lucky enough to get a copy of our own engines curves. They were looking for the 325 hp rating at 5600 and were not run over 6000. The hp curve was still climbing at that point.
The 1969 and 1970 models were built on the normal assembly lines and delivered to the final assembly line on the regular engine delivery monorail conveyor. The 68's were delivered on engine dollies to the assembly line from the engineering dynos. When it arrived in finalk car assembly, this was the flag that a particular car was ok to be scheduled and started down the line.
There's more, like the special unique clutch and pressure plates (actually a scheiffer unit) that already had a gm part number assigned to it from chevrolet on the l88 corvettes.
A lot of this special handling was also rumored to be on a lot more w cars back then, but the only ones that were dedicated as race cars and special batch built were the 54 1966 w30 cars and the 500 68 ramrods.
Sorry for the epistle, but i get on a roll in the middle of the night.
May 21st, 2015, 04:33 PM
#94
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: South Central, KY
Posts: 1,292
Thanks for the interesting information from this thread and a bump for OP.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-4...m=301633398331
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-4...m=301633398331
Last edited by Mr Shifty Sidney; May 21st, 2015 at 04:36 PM. Reason: bad link
May 22nd, 2015, 08:18 AM
#96
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NEW HARTFORD CT
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May 22nd, 2015, 03:51 PM
#98
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NEW HARTFORD CT
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I spoke with Dave B. and he was not directly involved with the 68 RamRod, however, he explained that the 68 W-31 engines were built in engineering, and were blueprinted, and in 1969 and 1970; the w-31 engine was built by assembly line workers. Also, he explained for 1968 that the parts were delivered directly from the foundries to engineering, and they were not production line components.
Okay I thought he was he was tied in the racing program as well, ty for the info.
May 22nd, 2015, 04:00 PM
#99
Great information and I'm glad to see it was shared for all of us to learn about these cars. Nothing like getting first hand info.
One item of clarification; "The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year."
I do not know when it became a standard option in 1969, but I have inspected original owner, untouched early build W-31s, which did hot have boxed control arms and a rear sway bar.
One item of clarification; "The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year."
I do not know when it became a standard option in 1969, but I have inspected original owner, untouched early build W-31s, which did hot have boxed control arms and a rear sway bar.
May 22nd, 2015, 06:24 PM
#101
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 388
Great information and I'm glad to see it was shared for all of us to learn about these cars. Nothing like getting first hand info.
One item of clarification; "The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year."
I do not know when it became a standard option in 1969, but I have inspected original owner, untouched early build W-31s, which did hot have boxed control arms and a rear sway bar.
One item of clarification; "The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year."
I do not know when it became a standard option in 1969, but I have inspected original owner, untouched early build W-31s, which did hot have boxed control arms and a rear sway bar.
PS: this 68 is so similar to mine!! I want a photo opp with this 68, my 69, and Sam G's 70 All Canadian sold W-31's (and Ram Rod:-)
Ryan
May 22nd, 2015, 07:06 PM
#102
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 419
Would be cool but have to get it to Canada. One of you Canadien boys should be the high bidder so I can see it head back north to its home. I am getting kinda depressed knowing it's going to sell in 2 days😢
May 25th, 2015, 06:33 PM
#107
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 419
Thank you guys, the new owner is a avid Olds collector. I'm sure he'll post up on here when he's ready. I am happy it's going to a great home and will be cared for. He got a great car and it's bitter sweet for me.
May 25th, 2015, 07:27 PM
#108
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Location: Delta BC Canada
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May 25th, 2015, 07:41 PM
#109
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This is straight from the NHRA Classification Guide Tech Spec sheets.
68 W-31 60.6 head CC volume 11-1 CR
69 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.5 CR
70 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.25 CR
NHRA uses what the manufacturer gives them,so I would assume this is correct. If anybody has a problem with these numbers,call NHRA in Glendora,CA.
68 W-31 60.6 head CC volume 11-1 CR
69 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.5 CR
70 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.25 CR
NHRA uses what the manufacturer gives them,so I would assume this is correct. If anybody has a problem with these numbers,call NHRA in Glendora,CA.
May 25th, 2015, 08:12 PM
#110
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Location: NEW HARTFORD CT
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This is straight from the NHRA Classification Guide Tech Spec sheets.
68 W-31 60.6 head CC volume 11-1 CR
69 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.5 CR
70 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.25 CR
NHRA uses what the manufacturer gives them,so I would assume this is correct. If anybody has a problem with these numbers,call NHRA in Glendora,CA.
68 W-31 60.6 head CC volume 11-1 CR
69 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.5 CR
70 W-31 60.58 head CC volume 10.25 CR
NHRA uses what the manufacturer gives them,so I would assume this is correct. If anybody has a problem with these numbers,call NHRA in Glendora,CA.
interesting ty for the info
May 25th, 2015, 08:49 PM
#112
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Location: suburbs of Chicago
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Great information and I'm glad to see it was shared for all of us to learn about these cars. Nothing like getting first hand info.
One item of clarification; "The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year."
I do not know when it became a standard option in 1969, but I have inspected original owner, untouched early build W-31s, which did hot have boxed control arms and a rear sway bar.
One item of clarification; "The rear arms and sway bar were part of the 442 suspension package. This was an oversight and corrected for the 1969 model year."
I do not know when it became a standard option in 1969, but I have inspected original owner, untouched early build W-31s, which did hot have boxed control arms and a rear sway bar.
May 26th, 2015, 08:56 AM
#113
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Location: Chicago
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That's what I've found on the measured heads as well... the '68 H/O NHRA engine data sheet lists "nominal" compression as 9.64:1, and "maximum" compression as 11.15:1, the maximum being with 0.002" deck, 69.75cc D heads, 14.3 cc piston dish, etc... I think the large difference on the H/O is due to use of either C or D heads on the engines, which will change compression around 0.7 points.
May 26th, 2015, 04:00 PM
#114
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Location: crawfordville, florida
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Also, read the NHRA Tech. Sheet at the bottom and it states "add .030" for carbon build up". Actual ratio on my "Legal 68 Ram Rod engine builds" were 11.87! That was with a zero deck, 60.0 CC heads (after setting in ice cooler for 1/2 hour before taking to head check area to check legal at 60.60 cc), .040" overbore, stock alumn. piston installed 180* backwards on rod (special made pistons by engineering with notch forward so to check legal) , .017 factory steel head gskt., .015" stroke on stock nitrated crank, resulting in 359 C. I. s and the 11.87 ratio.
BTW: after I purchased my "Brass Hat" 70' F-85 W31, which came stock with the 3:91s, within 2 weeks I installed 4:33 s. Speed limit was 70 mph on interstate in Mich. At 70 I was turning 3,900 rpms and boy it sounded sweet. Put it to the floor and it would downshift to second and revs would go to 4,600 rpm and then upshift to third at 6,200 rpm! The Trans. Dept. in Engineering modified the governor from stock 5,800 WOT rpms to 6,200 rpm, which is perfect for the 308* cam. Also, I didn't need to manually move the shifter lever in each gear at 6,200 rpm. By modifying the governor I just left it in Drive, thus not missing a shift.
So running 4:33 was not hard on a well built W31. Never took the valve covers off in its 114,000 mile life before being totaled in a towing accident. Man I miss that car. How many of your cars do you get to see being built at Fisher and Lansing Assembly!
BTW: after I purchased my "Brass Hat" 70' F-85 W31, which came stock with the 3:91s, within 2 weeks I installed 4:33 s. Speed limit was 70 mph on interstate in Mich. At 70 I was turning 3,900 rpms and boy it sounded sweet. Put it to the floor and it would downshift to second and revs would go to 4,600 rpm and then upshift to third at 6,200 rpm! The Trans. Dept. in Engineering modified the governor from stock 5,800 WOT rpms to 6,200 rpm, which is perfect for the 308* cam. Also, I didn't need to manually move the shifter lever in each gear at 6,200 rpm. By modifying the governor I just left it in Drive, thus not missing a shift.
So running 4:33 was not hard on a well built W31. Never took the valve covers off in its 114,000 mile life before being totaled in a towing accident. Man I miss that car. How many of your cars do you get to see being built at Fisher and Lansing Assembly!
Last edited by davebw31; May 26th, 2015 at 04:09 PM.
May 27th, 2015, 07:03 PM
#115
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Location: NEW HARTFORD CT
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info re suspension
As you thought they weren't standard equipment on 69 w-31s
This is info from Kurt who has access to great information
Next post shows bulletin
This is a very interesting option for the W31. Ironically, I was going to contact you about this as I don't think we discussed this yet.
A no-brainer for the the 442, but not for the W31. And it is not as if it was a new setup, so I don't know why Olds was seemingly caught off-guard by it.
Let's start by looking at it just prior to '68. In '67, the setup (boxed arm and sway bar) were *just part* of what Olds called simply "heavy duty chassis items". Because there was more to it than just the arms and bar. Essentially the arms were G57 and the bar was G69. There was not a option number for the heavy duty items collectively, just the the individual components under "mandatory items" for the W29.
Available only as part of the L66 Turnpike Cruiser and L78 ordering options (and Police, but that was special order, of course).
In '68, it got more confusing. The FE1 shows up, and was a cumulative "Rally Sport Suspension" but it was just springs, shocks, and *front* stabilizer. The G57 and G69 that is the rear part was still separate. All were again included with the 442 (and Police) The FE1 was an option on the Cutlass S models, so all except the F85 W31s could have it in '68. But that was an option, and didn't include the rear sway bar regardless. I find no late year changes that changed that. No sway bars on any A-bodies except 442 and Police.
On to 1969.
The FE1 was conspicuously absent from the A-body options, but on 11/19, the attached bulletin announced the new FE2 package that now included the rear components, thus making it a full "442" suspension package. Bear in mind that even though it was announced on 11/19, it very well may have been available earlier if asked for. It was available on all V8 coupes and convertibles, W31 or not. And it was still *optional* on all W31s for '69.
June 11th, 2015, 04:38 PM
#120
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Location: Latrobe, Pa.
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1968 W31 or Ram Rod
This 4 page letter was sent to the sales manager of my small home town dealer. Not sure if this has been shown before. From early Dec, 1967. Concerns the details, specifications, and ordering procedure for the new W31 option. "W31" was mentioned about 6 times. Not any reference at this point to the Ram Rod 350 name.
