TK-65

Where exactly is Ontariario located? I know where Ontario is, there are many Big 3 plants located there (Windsor, Oshawa, St Thomas, Oakville)

List of CAW made cars,
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Impala
Chrysler 300
Dodge Challenger
Dodge Charger
Ford Crown Victoria
Lincoln Town Car
Mercury Grand Marquis
Chevrolet Equinox
Ford Edge
Ford Flex
GMC Terrain
Lincoln MKT
Lincoln MKX
Pontiac Torrent


The JD power list says how great Toyota quality is. Ford is one point behind and Chevy is two. So in your world a one point difference makes it pure junk? Whats that make Nissan, KIA and Volkswagen then?

Toyota right now is a flaming pile of crap. From the sludge problems, to the rotted frames in Tacomas and Tundra (which they bought back/bought off lawsuits from their customers) and now this gas pedal issue they tried to cover up, I would be scared to drive on the same road as a Toyota.

Its funny how some people that think Domestic cars still suck because they did 20 years ago believe Toyota still makes a reliable car because they did 20 years ago.

Red Delta

The list reflects initial quality. Which compares complaints in the first 90 days.

I don't know about you, but I like to keep my cars a little longer than 90 days.

Mingus

That would be the "mod" motors. The company I work for has 25-30 '99-'00 Superduty trucks with the 5.4 gas engine. I think every one of them had warranty fixes for leaky head gaskets and/or the spark plug issue. They would literally blow the plug out of the head!
Causes a bit of a miss when that happens.

70 cutlass s

Ford doesn't make head gasket they buy them. So when they went bad which Ford has had issue's with them in 99-00 and 02-03. Ford had to pay to get them fixed. The problem was with the part supplier not Ford. Toyota doesn't make gas pedals they buy them and know because of a part supplier it's going to cost a lot of money to fix it. How much do you want to bet that part supplier isn't going to be in business much longer.

TK-65

So do I, my 95 F150 runs like a champ. My 04 Focus is a great car and the 10 Escape I bought last night is amazing.

Your mind is made up, you hate domestic cars and the UAW. I cant change that. I am a UAW worker and drive what I make. I support my local economy and my neighbors.

Red Delta

Here is a press release from the supplier of the pedals.

http://www.ctscorp.com/publications/...s/nr100129.htm

Red Delta

I can't argue with that. I would do the same if I was in your position. As a side note, I'm looking at a Flex. That Sync technology looks pretty cool.

D Appeldorn

I read the story in oure newspaper to.

it say's one's dead is other man's bread toyo v.s. gm.

but if i am honest, most new cars are rubisch to day.
they are all made of verry thin material or plastic.

Engine's ar all tuned to be invironment friendly, but the valves ar so thin and tight that they burn out with lpg. ( i thought this was invironment friendly to)

how manny "new" cars survive rust etc after running 25 years.

the most inportant thing i like about old usa cars, is the sheet metal "body" and easy working space.

and the things that i had to accustom to was the wirering and those switches

I i today buy a car and the lightbulbs die, i have to go to a garage, whit a bill of to manny dollars work fee

66ninetyeightls

It doesn't say how great anything is. It simply lists the number of problems per 100 vehicles in the first 90 days of ownership. Cadilac is there cause their volume is low in comparison to all the rest. The ONLY other brand for GM that is above the industry average is Chevy and there isn't a single Chrysler product above that mark.

Nissan quality is starting to level out, Volkswagen is finally turning things around after a dismal 5 years and the Kia/Hyundia group which is the 4th largest auto manufacturer in the world (surpassing Ford) is slated to be within the TOP 3 in initial quality in the next 3 years (Gone up 12 places in the last year alone).

Blah Blah Blah. Toyota is in the news now cause its fresh. Its effecting so many cars because Toyota sells the most cars in the world. I work at an automotive manufacturer in the Quality Assurance department and know for a FACT that pretty much every auto manufacturer on that list has had similarly alarming issues over the last 10 years. Theirs didn't get as much press though.

As far as trying to cover things up WOW thats the pot calling the ketlle black. GM & Ford are some of the WORSTE culprits when it comes to thats sort of thing. It if was GM in this situation odds are we wouldn't have heard about it yet cause they would have it tied up in so much lidigation it would take 5 years to come out.

Not all domestic cars. GM always seems to be going in the wrong direction. When they have good product that people want they stop producing it. When they have had technological leads they throw them away. Ford on the other hand is going to be a force to be reckoned with in the next few years. They have a much higher perceived quality because they took $0 bail out money. Not to mention they are brining some beautiful cars over from their European division. I won't even start about Chrysler. They had a great thing going and really blew it.

TK-65

Arent you the guy that posted that anything with the UAW stamp on it is crap????? Albeit the UAW didnt make it, but the CAW is basically the same thing. So why would you look at a piece of crap?

TK-65

Chrysler never had a good thing going. They have always been the turd in the punch bowl. What other automaker has been saved twice by the Federal government.

I never said the domestics were without fault. From side saddle gas tanks to Firestone tires they all have been in the barrel. Toyota has lead a guilt free existance for a long time. Now that they are the ones taking heat I am not about to stop talking about it. Everyone thought Toyota could do no wrong. Hell some of our "leaders" thought the big 3 should just go away and let Toyota take over. Come to find out Toyota makes turds just like every other automaker, closes plants, lays off "temporary" workers, has a jobs bank, has cradle to grave benefits back in Japan, and tries to cover up recalls by buying off customers and not refering to recalls and recalls.

66ninetyeightls

Toyota has always had issues just like any other car manufacturer. As far as not refering to recalls as recalls thats not even up to the manufacturer. Thats completely up to the government.

Red Delta

I said I looked at it. Didn't say I was going to buy it. Hey, you are one of the lucky ones, working for the only domestic car company that didn't mooch off of the gooberment. You should be happy.

I agree with 66, Ford has a fantastic opportunity, here. Hopefully they don't screw it up by giving into union demands.

rockethound

ya the problem is that the gas pedal in toyota's and some fords are electronic and the gas pedal module is what is actually bad. the real funny thing is is that denso makes a gas pedal module as well but it is not inter changeable with the one toyota is using. denso use to be one with toyota then they branched away to become a supplier under toyota suppling them with radiators condensors heater cores evaperaters hvacs and other parts.

Red Delta

Virtually every new vehicle sold today uses throttle by wire. It is common.

OLD SKL 69

Thanks TK-65, that was exactly my point when I started this thread. I don't believe for one minute that there is any manufacturer that does not have issues, but usually the Japanese makes are never included in the same sentence as recalls and quality problems.

Oh and another note, Honda recalled 646,000 vehicles yesterday due to a relay in the driver's door that can get wet, short out, and cause a fire.

toro68

Very true! AMC had MANY ISSUES! The 1983 Eagle wagon I have from April 1994- March 1997, I spent over $4500 (only) in repairs!
One of the biggest POS I have owned!

Red Delta

Worldwide.

TK-65

A few month back Toyota said it was the floor mats, I knew that was BS. Now its sticking modules, and I think that too is BS. None of these cases stem from a car going 80 and not slowing down. Its sudden and uncontrolled accelleration. Something else is causing this. Youll see when it happens to the recalled cars.

Red Delta

If it's a software issue, that can be easily fixed with ten minutes on a laptop at your local Toyota dealer.

It's fairly simple. If the brake pedal is depressed, then the computer will sense this and cut the throttle. There is no reason this programming shouldn't have been included in the first place.

ent72olds

Something tells me if it were that simple, the problems would have been solved by now, and you wouldn't have all these new cars sitting on lots, with "Not For Sale" signs....

D Appeldorn

heard they recall 7 million cars, citroen and peugot are comming from the same factory.

66ninetyeightls

If it was a software issue they would fix it in ten minutes.

Its the type of plastic they used in the APS (Accelerator Pedal Assembly) assembly. It causes condensation in the pedal assembly which causes the sensor to send incorrect information to the ECM asking for acceleration when its not wanted.

70 cutlass s

I wonder if it's using info from the brake light switch or if it's using info from the MAP sensor or some kind of vacuum sensor to tell when the brake is depressed. Using vacuum info wouldn't be smart. If your car had a vacuum leak than you would be able to drive it. For most people that means having a tow truck take it to mechanic.

I would like for them to explain how the new software works. What it uses for info. Sounds like an half *** fix to me. More than likely create other problems.

If they really want to fix it than go back to 60's tech and put a cable in it and be done with it.

If it was as easy as software it would have been covered up and we would have never heard of it.

rocketraider

And the supplier built the part to TOYOTA ENGINEERING SPECIFICATIONS.


Accept it, guys. Toyota has ridden the wave without excuses for so long that something like this was bound to happen. Now they have to deal with the same thing the domestics have been dealing with for years and I think that's a good thing. Might bring 'em back down to earth and maybe, just maybe, force Toyota dealers to eat a little crow and start using better and more ethical business practices. The ones I've dealt with were schitty way back when and friends who own 'Yotas hate to take their cars back to the local dealer for anything more than an oil change.

70 cutlass s

The worst part of the whole thing is people died and that's the bottom line. No matter what Toyota does from here on out. It won't make up for the people that died.

They should have to pay.

toro68

Heck my 1995 F-150 4x4 has over 321,400 miles! Its just a yard truck today, but it served me well for 11 years of road duty (1997-2008).
Yes its the 300 six with 5-speed combo.

66ninetyeightls

The majority of these vehicles are equipped with Electronic Stability Control so any inputs the ECM got relating to the brake switch would come from the ESC system. Let me reinforce this once again.

ITS NOT SOFTWARE RELATED!!!!!!!!!!! Toyota would have been able to fix this concern MONTHS ago if it were a simple reflash of the ECM. They make and release software updated on a weekly basis for vehicles and it wouldn't have taken them more than a day for something this serious if thats all it was. It never would have gotten this far. Its a part issue plain and simple.

Cables are just as dangerous. Many manufacturers have had safety recalls for uncontrolled acceleration due to cables sticking.

Toyota would give them the sensor specs for the APS sensor and the general engineering designs but for the most part these types of parts are off the shelf parts supplied by the lowest bidder. Companies like Bosch, Siemans and Delphi design and engineer these parts and the manufacturers just choose which ones to use for a particular model.

70 cutlass s

Yeah I know it's not software related. The only way to fix the problem is to replace the part that's bad. I was just trying to make since of something someone said on here.

500hsss

My cutlass cable never stuck

OLD SKL 69

How true! I know the newer cables are a little different, but it still should be a no-brainer at this point for any manufacturer.

Diego

Sometimes I need to be reminded that just because someone likes cars, that doesn't make him/her an expert in the auto industry.

And, for the record, "Jap" is usually considered a derogatory term for Japanese people. I don't think slurring a group of people is very cool - can we try to evolve from this?

MN71W30

I've had the pleasure of knowing this guy. He says Jap it all the time. I'll tell him he needs to evolve the next time I see him.
http://www.thevoyageurpress.com/vbes...ervinbuck.html

70 cutlass s

I work in the auto industry.

Diego

Please be sure to give him the message for me.

MN71W30

I will,
He could use a good laugh.

Diego

Sounds like it.

You can deliver it with a copy of "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips" - I bet he'll be on the floor laughing.

ent72olds

I didn't hear anyone has died do to this? Are you sure about that?

70 cutlass s

I heard it on the news. I don't know for sure. I would hope not. The news is really good at making things sound worst than they really are.

Diego

People are also good at misrepresenting the news they hear.

Or they receive false news via emails and spread it on sites like this.