stevengerard

yes, 4 in one car died was featured on "Night Line" but many others have as well from what I have read over the last few months.

70 cutlass s

This time I hate being right.

ent72olds

Man...I guess we can add Toyotas to the Chevy c-10 and Pinto list....

70 cutlass s

Yeah its sad. I build frames for F150 and the whole Toyota hits me pretty hard. I know what the people that work at the plants that build the cars and parts are feeling right now. It makes you stop and think about the people that have lost their life. Makes you focus on your job even more. Trying to make the best product that you can. Caring on when you don't know how too.

ent72olds

Had an '04 F150 and now drive an '08.....best vehicle I ever had.....gets beat on and still rides like a Caddy.....quiet too!

Lady72nRob71

I heard of 8 dead in only two single-car wrecks, one here in TX.

70 cutlass s

I enjoy making my part of the truck. It's a good job even if it has been up and down the last few years.

OLD SKL 69

There was another article in our paper yesterday about the sticking gas pedals. One guy with an 08 Camry drives with both feet, one on the gas and one on the brake. He said that whenever he slows down, he depresses the brake with his left foot and takes his right foot and slides it under the gas pedal to lift it back up. Don't want to be in front of him in traffic!

Lady72nRob71

Toyos blow up on impact, too.
Three local teens perished just down the street from me in one.
It was very unfortunate for them... This happened on a 2 lane blacktop city road where the speed limit is 40. The brick wall was just a subdivision marker, nothing too massive. It was made of simple house bricks.
They were going too fast, I wonder if their pedal got stuck???
This came from the Dallas morning news. I did not link it due to it wanting a registration.

Students devastated by loss of classmates
09:43 PM CST on Friday, March 31, 2006
By KIMBERLY DURNAN and KARIN SHAW ANDERSON / The Dallas Morning News
Two tall wooden crosses and a center post topped by a star and crescent moon anchored an impromptu memorial to three Garland High School friends Friday afternoon. Rubble from the Firewheel Estates entryway wall, destroyed the night before by their careening car, supported the timbers.
Scores of grieving students excused from school hovered for most of the day around the charred site at Brand Road and Muirfield Drive, where the three popular classmates died the night before in a fiery accident.
"They were three seniors with seven weeks left until graduation," Garland High principal John Morris said. "What a tragedy."
School officials identified two of the victims as Raheed Salam, 17, the driver, and Shane Petroski, 18. The third boy's family identified him as Alex Manriquez, also 18.

Raheed Salam (left), Alex Manriquez (center) and Shane Petroski were identified as the crash victims.
Mr. Morris said they were top students. Raheed was in the International Baccalaureate program and on the tennis team. The other boys both took Advanced Placement courses. All belonged to Key Club, an academic group that teaches leadership and service.
Witnesses told police that the youths, who had just attended a school band concert at the Plaza Theatre in downtown Garland, were traveling northeast on Brand Road in a 2004 Toyota Camry about 9:30 p.m. Thursday when the driver apparently tried to turn left onto Muirfield and clipped a small pickup stopped at the intersection. Alex's father, Phillip Manriquez, said the three were probably headed to either Shane's or Raheed's house to go running together.
The car slid sideways into the curb, then hit the wall at the subdivision entryway. Police said the vehicle apparently was going too fast to make the turn, although the speed hadn't been determined.
Leanh Dang, who lives across Muirfield from the scene, said she heard the screeching tires, then a loud boom, and ran outside to see a flash of fire quickly engulf the car.
"Someone tried to help," she said. "He couldn't help. The fire was too much."
Andrew Olson, 39, of Garland said he was driving by when he saw the car slam into the wall and burst into flames.
"I immediately ran to the car and realized someone was in there and most likely unconscious," Mr. Olson said. "I only saw one person in the car, and I tried to pull him out, but I had a problem getting the door open. I kept having to step away because of the heat. It was horrible."

The crash ended three promising lives.
Raheed's family said he had been accepted to both Texas A&M University and the University of Texas at Austin and wanted to study political science. He loved soccer and basketball, participated in the debate club and held a part-time job at a local Chinese restaurant.
"He had so many options, so many things he wanted to do in life," said his aunt Sayeeda Hafeez. "And he was such a beautiful writer. The school district framed some of his papers and delivered them to his family this afternoon, and we have been reading them and crying."
Shane's family also remembered the things he wrote, particularly his songs. His family said the guitarist and keyboardist hoped to become a professional musician, though he also was interested in starting a business. Although he had not yet graduated from high school, Shane was already taking a real estate class one night a week at Richland College. He had received word Thursday of his acceptance at St. Edward's University in Austin.
"If you could dream up a son, it would be Shane," said his mother, Eileen Petroski, who recalled that Shane made a point of saying he loved her each night.
Alex loved engineering and was planning to join the Air Force.
"I was really happy that he was going in that direction," his father said. "He was really excited about that."
Alex played soccer his freshman year at Garland High. Mr. Manriquez remembered a young man who also loved fishing and skateboarding.
A skateboarding rail, missing much of its red paint from frequent use, was tucked behind the hedge near the front door of his parents' home. Family members flocked to the house throughout the day Friday.
"I think it's kind of good to have everyone here," Mr. Manriquez said. "It helps keep your mind off of it."
Alex's mother, Shelley Manriquez, said her son was outgoing and friendly. "He loved life and having his freedom," she said.
He had recently left jobs at area restaurants to prepare for the Air Force. "They were saying that he was going to go in June," Ms. Manriquez said.
Student memorial
Friday, the blackened ground and remaining debris were slowly being covered by dozens of bouquets. Some single red roses were tied with black ribbons.
Initially, students had hammered together three crosses at the crash site, and friends used red and black markers to write farewell notes. In the afternoon, friends pried off the horizontal cross bar on Raheed's memorial, replacing it with the symbols of his family's Muslim faith.
Some of the sentiments scrawled on the wood planks talked about meeting again. Others mentioned inside jokes. One message called Raheed a "sun god."
A field inspector from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration arrived at the scene Friday afternoon. He measured tire marks and debris distribution before heading to the impound yard to examine the car.
He expected that the car, being so new, would have a computer measuring device, rather like the "black box" in an airplane, that would help him make sense of the scene he had surveyed.
A 6- or 7-foot-wide hole in the brick-faced concrete wall that served as the neighborhood entrance testified to the impact. Pieces of the car's dashboard remained intact up to 50 feet away. Sections of scorched seat foam and melted wiring told of the heat of the blaze.
Time to heal
Mr. Morris, the Garland High principal, said about a third of the senior class was given permission to leave school Friday morning after learning of the accident.
"We told them, as long as they talked to their parents first, they could leave if they needed to," he said. "I told them, 'I don't want another accident to occur because you're upset.' "
Students stared at the scene for hours. Some marked their faces with soot from the ground. Some stood quiet and still. Others were sobbing and shaking.
One knelt on the ground and yelled, "It should have been me! I'm so sorry. It should have been me."
Three boys sat on the ground in the morning, clutching clumps of earth and crying.
"We are trying to have school, but it's hard," Garland school district spokesman Reavis Wortham said. "They were three well-respected and popular students."
Samantha Thompson, 18, described her classmates as outgoing and fun. "If you had a down day, they were there to make you feel better," she said.
"All the English teachers were crying and consoling each other," she said of the scene at school. "Students have been going to the gym supporting each other. A bunch of seniors have left."
Mr. Wortham said counselors from across the district had been called in to help the students. "We've urged them to stay in school if they can," he said.
Steve Knagg, another school district spokesman, said the students were in shock.
"We have a school full of crying kids," he said.
Mr. Manriquez said he hoped the accident would serve as a reminder for other parents.
"If they can just remember to hug their kids ..."

ent72olds

No Rob...I meant that people died due to vehicle malfunction caused by poor design.....not necessarily blown up......didn't mean to mislead.....

Lady72nRob71

No misleading - my other statement stands true. I heard of 8 dying in 2 wrecks caused by the gas pedal.
For sudden accel, one lexy killed 4 from high speed impact and an avalon incident near here was in Southlake, killing 4 in a pond (2 died later in the hospital, 2 killed instantly).

The camry blow up on impact in Garland one killed three teens but was 4 years ago.
I added this one to show that Pintos and Chevy trucks were not the only ones to catch fire in high speed impacts. But now it makes me wonder abou the car they were driving and the high speed at which they crashed - the car was a 2004 - gas pedal incident also?????

Lady72nRob71

Heres the lexy wreck:
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...-calamity.html
Car caught fire, too. Se the PDF file for photos and evidence of pedal sticking...
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...350-crash.html

Heres the news from Southlake, courtesy of WFAA:

SOUTHLAKE — Neighbors heard the noise, but only one person witnessed what happened last month when a blue Toyota Avalon raced through a stop sign at more than 45 miles per hour, blasted through a pipe fence, and overturned in a pond six feet deep at Lonesome Dove Road and Burney Lane.
"She did not see a driver behind the wheel just before it crashed," the investigator wrote after interviewing the woman who saw the accident.
Details of that deadly December day make up Southlake Police Department's 87-page report obtained by News 8 on Wednesday.
Two witnesses went in first, followed by police, the report stated. It was the property owner along with a kayaker who happened to be driving by.
The kayaker's wife, a competitive swimmer, eventually dove in as well to help police.
The water wasn't just murky, it was also cold as the temperature that day was 43 degrees.
Rescuers could only locate two people: Monty Hardy, the driver and Hadassah Vance, a backseat passenger.
Only later would they learn two more were also trapped: Passengers Sharon Ransom and Wendy Akion. All four Jehovah's Witnesses were driving through Southlake conducting ministerial work.
The Tarrant County Medical Examiner ruled that all four victims drowned.
Mrs. Hardy told investigators that her husband has epilepsy, but doctors recently prescribed him a new medicine. Doctors assured them it was still safe for Mr. Hardy to drive, she added.
Mrs. Hardy then shared something else.
Her husband loved his Toyota Avalon but "the only problem he had was that the accelerator would stick."
Plus, "they had received a recall notice on the Toyota ... for an acceleration problem," she continued.
The report never concludes what definitively caused the wreck -- whether it be a medical condition or a mechancial malfunction.
E-mail jwhitely@wfaa.com

Olds64

Interesting topic. FWIW, my wife and I went to a Toyota dealership last weekend to look at a Toyota Venza. It was a nice car but didn't have enough room in the driver's seat for me. I did test drive a Toyota Highlander but it was too much truck and not enough car for me. Despite this recall I would still consider buying a Toyota if the car was in my budget and it fit my family.

Diego

This is a joke, right?

Practically every car ever made has caught on fire in the right circumstances.

The Pinto, in particular, was due to the negligence of Ford. What evidence do you have to show that the fire in Garland was due to Toyota's negligence?

jaunty75

http://www.autoextremist.com/

TK-65

On page two I said this wil shake out as to being a software problem and not a pedal problem. Steve Wozniak, someone who knows a little about software, agrees.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runawa...ory?id=9728007

jaunty75

It seems that about 90% of problems with today's cars are fixed not by turning a wrench but by "reprogramming the EPROM" or something like that. If this really is the solution, it ought to be a quick fix involving no new parts, once they figure out the reprogramming.

jaunty75

More:


Transportation Secy: Don't Drive Recalled Toyotas

http://wcbstv.com/local/stop.driving...2.1467177.html

Red Delta

Peter is a great guy to listen to on Autoline After Hours podcast.

Diego

However, Pete is also a legend in his own mind.

Red Delta

I like cynicism. I'm a huge fan of a critic.

Diego

So you're waiting for him to shoot himself in the foot too?

Red Delta

Not exactly sure what you meant by this.

I feel that a healthy level of dissent is important in a conversation. For me, a discussion needs to have views that cover all ranges of the spectrum.

If everyone got along and agreed on everything, life would be pretty boring.

Col Wickham

I can't agree more !
FYI guys,....Toyotas are Australia's No 1 selling car. Not saying that's a good thing but they have to be doing something right.
They have the best reputation down here for reliability, value for money, service, resale and economy.
The scary thing is the Hyundai is making huge inroads into the local market nowadays. Are they getting better or are we getting cheaper? (Remember, cars here are a lot more expensive than in the States)

rougebeats

I was reading people writing about the whole "buy American" and how import vehicles are hurting the economy.... take a look at basically any part on a Pontiac Vibe, and you will notice that 75% of the parts on that car will have "toyota" stamped on it, and Im willing to bet that there are more "American" vehicles with the same stampings on many of the parts. As for any automaker being it a chevy with the dual gas tanks that posed a threat of explosion upon side impact (my first car which was a 77 Chevy Scottsdale that I received a notice from a classaction lawsuit that would have paid me $46 dollars or $200 off the purchase price of a new Chevy vehicle) or a 1995 Lincoln Town Car(current daily driver) that has a recall on the cruise control which can catch fire without even having the key in the ignition. What Im trying to get at here is, it really doesnt matter what make or model, foreign or domestic.....its all about money, and how long they can hide it until it needs to be addressed due to casualties. It really shouldnt be about make and model, or foreign or domestic, but making something wrong-right, and not waiting until it kills more than a certain number of people before concluding that it is a problem. Just my .02

jaunty75

Why is it scary? If they can make a good product at a lower price, more power to them. Hyundai gets a lot of positive press. I see lots of them on the road.

z11375ss

I read that in a California CHP was driving a runaway Toyo. After the car wrecked and killed all in it, the brakes were inspected to find they had disintegrated. In other words he had his foot mashed on the brake trying to stop this car! What a terrible fate. If I owned a Toyo that had the recall I would not drive it. Why don't these cars come with a kill switch. This holding the stop/start button for three seconds is B.S. These buttons are for vanity anyway. Get rid of them. I had a Buick run away from me because the secondaries stuck on the choke housing. All I did was turn the key and voila! Problem solved. So I ask all of you with the Toyos, are you going to feel safe with their "fix"?

66ninetyeightls

Geeze the thing still has a tranny. All they need to do is put it into neutral. They had plenty of time to make a call to 911 so they had plenty of time to hold the button for 3 seconds. Problem is most people now are to lazy to actually read their owners manual.

As far as Hyundia goes they and Kia recently passed Ford in world wide sales and are the 4th largest car company in the world. While every other car companies sales were going through the floor they hade huge growth in most markets.

Red Delta

The car was a loaner. I don't know about you, but I don't read the owners manual when I'm only going to have the car for a short period of time.

This site has a few interesting ideas about what happened in that situation. He probably should have just jammed it park.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/sta...y-lexus-es350/

66ninetyeightls

I actually make it a point to know as much as possible about any car I drive. Especially if it has technology I don't understand. I've had more than one car run away on me as a mechanic and that was with mechanical throttle bodies using linkages and cables.

Throwing the tranny into neutral seems like a common sense thing to me. The worst that could happen is the engine blows. Big deal your still alive. As far as the push button ignition goes every vehcile with that system has the same feature for shutting it off. Besides using the transmission is a safer option. If you shut the engine down you lose power steering and very quickly power brakes. Better to hit neutral and let the rev limiter handle the engine. That way you still have power for braking and steering

Red Delta

I understand your points. It really does boil down to being personally responsible for the safe operation of your vehicle.

Still, shifters like this could cause some confusion. This the shifter on a Lexus. Car guys like us would be able to figure it out, but there are lots of people out there that use their vehicle as an appliance. If their vehicle suddenly acts unexpectedly, they many not be able to come up with a solution before it's too late.

Where neutral should be, it's a downshift option. This seems like a design flaw for a vehicle that is sold to the masses.

OLD SKL 69

I agree, it could be very confusing to a person who views a car as an appliance. Toyota was recommending to that people shift their cars into neutral if the accelerator sticks.

citcapp

Turn the key off. You can still stop the car even if it has power brakes and steering. I have had the engine die on a car with power brakes and power steering and was still able to stop and steer the car. Seems the safest to me because its easy to remember. No extra thinking required

Red Delta

Some of these cars don't use keys.

66ninetyeightls

First off that shifter configuration is pretty much the standard on modern cars. Nuetral is in EXACTLY the same place it has always been. The smaller gate to the left of where that shifter is located is the manual shift gate so there should be no confusion for anyone driving a vehicle in the last 40 years.

That shifter is in neutral.

Red Delta

When it is in drive, and you want to slap it forward into neutral, it looks to me like it would push forward to the + for upshift, instead of going over and up.

I've never driven one, so I'm not sure how it would feel.

citcapp

Your right the keyless entry and start systems do add another factor to the mess. I don't own any of the new fangled fancy stuff so didn't think of that.

Maybe the auto makers should think of these things and make a fail safe off button for the cars driver that is clearly marked for such emergencys.

Red Delta

If you read the article in the link I posted above, apparently, if you hold the start button for three seconds, it would have shut down. Unfortunately, this information was buried deep in the owners manual.

I don't think someone who was borrowing a car is going to read the owners manual, pillar to post.

citcapp

Thats why I think a red off or stop button would be a great idea. Its required on machines by OSHA for safety, why not on cars.

66ninetyeightls

Drive is directly below where the shifter currently is in that picture. If you move the shifter to the left of the current position you put the transmission into manual "Sport" mode hence the S on the shifter assembly. The standard PRND shifter gate is still maintained with an addition gate added to the left.