74CutlassSupreme350

Hello there, Ive got a 74 Cutlass with the original 350. It runs like a top, but with the super high rear gear ratio, the factory 180hp just doesnt do it for me. The entire car is completely bone stock, and I was just wondering if anybody has/knows of some effective ways of bumping up the performance a bit. I dont really want to change rear gears, because it drives so nice on the highway, and I dont want to do an engine swap because of the originality. Aside from those two things, any input is appreciated. Keep in mind that ripping out the motor and having it completely rebuilt/blueprinted/balanced is a bit out of my price range ahahah. Thanks, Riley

76olds

Riley,
I understand you not wanting to get into the engine, these 73-76 engines run great even though they are under powered.
The Wife and I just love going for a cruise in our 76 especially at night with the windows down and the cool night air.
I would look into true duals that will net you around 20hp, headers if you want to add. I put in a 3:42 rear gear with new posi unit, not bad on the highway. Gas mileage suffers a bit. Much better off the line, nothing to say hey "Holy Chit" but OK
I also put in a shift kit, decent for a little chirp out of second.
I thru in a Saturday nite special T/C , not much gains to be had with that.
I have done many other changes to my 76 350, without swapping heads, pistons etc, I can try to give you more advice if you would like.
Hope this helps,
Eric

74CutlassSupreme350

Thanks for the quick reply Eric. This is exactly what I was looking for. Ive looked into the true duals, but it seems like no one really makes a kit for these year of cars. I dont want the local muffler shop to make one because A) They have a reputation for shoddy work(not bashing, just things Ive heard) and B) They dont carry stainless piping. I would also like to go for the headers, just for the aesthetics. Did you find a kit for yours or get them custom made? I've also looked into the gears, but like I said, the highway cruising is such a nice low rpm, and with the rochester 4bbl on it, the fuel mileage on the highway is deadly. By T/C I assume you mean torque converter? If so, the only time anything really benefits from an aftermarket one in my readings is when you have a heavy cam. From the sounds of things Ive got about 5 years before I can "properly" drive this car when I want, so time isnt an issue. Apparently no one wants to insure a 42 year old car to a 20 year old ahaha. Thanks, Riley

coppercutlass

I had my 72 insured to me @ 17 . Now 27 but i guess it also helped that my cousin was an insurance agent lol.

Imo if you want low rpm crusing but still want a little get up and go the 3.08 is good. I installed a 3.08 in my dads 77 pontiac boneville 2dr with a very mild olds 350 that was once in my 72 . It cruises great. Its not a tire smoker but man it moves for a yacht of a car. It has full length headers and the exhaust from a 95 impala ss 2.25 with thrush turbo mufflers. Adding headers alone was a noticeable diffrence as i originally put manifolds on it. Another thing to look at is the tune. the carb and dist is tuned for fuel economy and emmisions. changing the curve on the dist along with bumping the timing will help it get out of its way faster.

74CutlassSupreme350

You don't have Ontario insurance rates... I only want classic car insurance because no point in driving this thing during the winters here. Most places wont offer it to me, the other ones want my whole policy (Includes my DD 02 Bravada) for $500 a month+ I can think of a lot better things to do with my $350 a month Im saving (such as exhaust :P) I am still in the process of searching, but so far no good

Edit: Thanks for the opinion on gearing, a low 3.something does sound alright

coppercutlass

Damn thats rediculous. I used to pay 75 bucks a month for the olds and 300 for 6 months on my dodge ram. I now pay 300 for both for 6 months.

74CutlassSupreme350

I pay $162 a month right now for my 02. It only just dropped last month. Before that was $200, year before that was $280 on a 95 cutlass ahaha. Ontario has the highest insurance premiums across Canada

rob1960

My girlfriend,Cheryl has a gorgeous 43k '76 salon. She's had it since the early '80s,other than a repaint back when she bought it,the car's never been apart. Back in '09 I went through it for her since it had some oil & coolant leaks,brake problems,etc. Like you I also wanted to improve the performance while it was all apart. I detailed the crap out of it while I was at it & it turned out awesome! First on the list was a true dual exhaust system since the cat. was long gone. I do have an excellent muffler shop in my town & they bent me up a perfect fitting set of pipes. I had to locate a '73-4 "dual hump" crossmember plus I went with an earlier set of stock 350 manifolds instead of headers. I added a shift kit while the trans was out for a resealing(I also added a dual-gate shifter). I got rid of the lazy 2.41 gears & went with 3.08s plus added a posi. The transformation was amazing, it runs great!! It even barks the tires going from 2nd to 3rd! All I had to do was richen up the "part throttle" jet on the stock q-jet as it was way too lean with the duals. Your '74 carb doesn't use the part throttle jet,I think that came out in '75 so you might have to go up a size on the primary jets with headers & duals but those '73-4 q-jets were pretty rich from the factory. Wow those Ontario insurance rates are outrageous!!! I guess that's one way to keep cars off the road!!

76olds

Insurance is a killer for you young guys, my son is 17 just got his G2, His insurance would have been $428. / month as an occasional driver under our G8's. With drivers training and good school marks it went down to $202. / month.
You assumed correct T/C,,, torque converter helped a bit, it took driving the summer to loosen up a bit more, however not worth the cost if you were going to have a tranny shop install it.
Copper nailed it on the tuning as well, I put in a new DUI distributor have not dialled in the timing as of yet, just tuned it by ear. I have a new dial back timing light I purchased from summit that I will use to dial it all in this spring.
You could get away with a curve kit and swap out the springs and advance the timing, tune your quad and set your plug gap to .06 as it was mentioned that will help some.
These guys will continue to help with any questions you may have or how to do things when reach that point.
Note: If your engine is up near 100k miles I would do the timing chain very soon. I would make that my first priority.
I would also find a decent exhaust shop to mandrel bend some stainless pipe and weld them in, it not easy finding pre bent stuff that you wont have to modify and possible sage out to fit.
Post some pice when you get a chance , we all like pics here.
Cheers
Eric

74CutlassSupreme350

The car has 88k on it, so if you guys think the chain should be done, Ill start with that. It still has the points distributor, so Ill have to get an updated distributor for sure. As far as doing any of the work, I worked in a tranny shop for over a year, and am now an apprentice mechanic at a regular shop. I have full access to the shop and tools, so even if Im removing the tranny and changing the torque or installing a shift kit, it will be myself, perhaps with the help of someone, but I certainly wont be paying someone to do it for me. Now the trick is to find the parts for it... Any good places to start searching?

oldcutlass

If this is your only car and your using it as a daily driver, then Classic Car insurance is not in your future. Most Classic Car insurance co's also have age and storage restrictions.

I would not use stainless steel tubing for your exhaust. Its not cost effective and in your application completely unnecessary. Aluminumized tubing will last you a lifetime. Ask around in your area for a muffler shop that does good work, the guy in my are is an artist.

74CutlassSupreme350

It is not my daily driver, I have an 02 Olds Bravada that I daily drive. This will just be my summer cruiser. For the exhaust, do you think I would be best off installing manifolds or headers? Either way the wraparound manifolds it has now need to be gone

74CutlassSupreme350

That car in the thumbnails is really nice. Wish mine came with half the options yours looks to have!

74CutlassSupreme350

Also, is there any places I should search to maybe find a build sheet in the car? I dont know a whole lot about it

oldcutlass

Insurance co's require the car to be stored in a garage. Again some have age restrictions, you can call around to all the Classic Car insurance co's in Canada and see if they allow for younger folks. I think you'll need a dual exhaust trans cross member or modify yours to allow for the second pipe. For the manifolds, there are long and short tube headers available for your model. Both have advantages and disadvantages when it comes to performance and installation. The stock manifolds require a block off plate for the crossover pipe. Its the same all the way back to 64. There are some aftermarket manifolds available with maybe a small improvement over stock.

76olds

Oldcutlass ( Eric ) made a very good point with using aluminiumized pipe, I used stainless simply because it was only a hundred bucks more. I'm sure ther are good exhaust shops somewhere in your are. Headers aren't cheap if you want something to go in without any problems. You will need to decide if its worth your effort. I used headman ceramic coated shorty headers along with Remflex Graphite gaskets and put in a Powermaster 9610 mini starter.
I purchase most parts from Summit Racing in the U.S, I also use Performance Improvements up here in Ontario when our dollar is this low.

74CutlassSupreme350

Funny enough, mine actually has the dual hump crossmember, was kind of surprised to find that last summer while I was looking at it, and I guess the headers are the way to go then

76olds

I've had my 76 pretty much stripped down at one point and never found one. I've heard some guys have found them under the gas tank, tucked into the springs under the seats also under the carpet and inside the rear arm rest panels.
Good luck with your search , you may get lucky and find one.

olds 307 and 403

Find a stock 2004R trans, TV cable and bracket and add 3.73 gears. Add 2000 lock up stall with big Transgo shift kit. With stock tires you will run around 2000 rpm at 60 mph. Better first gear and a .67 overdrive with lock up converter lower rpm a lot. The cross member moved back is the only mod needed. That and dual exhaust with good aftermarket mufflers will really wake it up. The only cam I would put in that motor stock is the early vin 9 307 or smog 455 cam. Headers help but cause their own headaches.

ELY442

I use to have a 74 C/S and I still missed it. I, too, had a double hump cross member and I had a friend who use to work in a muffler shop and install a 2 1/4" true dual exhaust system. No headers, T/C and rear gears. Everything was bone stock. I did install a 18-20 cam from Mondello to wake up the stock 350. I wish I still have this car.

Cutty77

On my stock 77 I purchased Thorntons manifolds and then a 2.5" exhaust system from Summitt. Made a major improvement without tearing into the engine. And they sound good, not overbearing.

zodiacblue442

Riley,

That's cool you have a bone stock 74 Cutlass. From your avatar, it looks like a 74 Supreme, painted cranberry red with a white landau top? Does it have the cranberry red interior? If so, we have twin cars!

Regarding your car, and wanting more performance, the number one thing you can do as others have suggested is true dual exhaust. My opinion on headers is I hate headers except on serious street machines and race cars. Header collectors drastically reduce ground clearance and have a tendency to leak. They also really heat up the engine compartment unless you ceramic coat or wrap them. Seems like on mid 70's Cutlass, they are a total pain to install. I've heard of numerous people having clearance problems with them on 73-77's. Thornton makes a true dual set of exhaust manifolds for the Olds 350. I have a set and highly recommend these. You can also use your factory manifolds and where the crossover pipe bolts to the right manifold, just install a block off plate. That's all that Olds did for the dual exhaust option on the 350. The block off plates used to be very hard to find, but they are now being reproduced. I think Year One sells them. Aluminized exhaust pipe will last for decades, and some performance mufflers with the dual exhaust would wake the engine up. You'll get tons of opinions on muffler brand and type, but I like Dynomax, and my brother had the original design simple Cherry Bomb mufflers on his 77 442 that he converted to dual exhaust. That car had great performance and sounded good.

Another thing you can do is install an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold. The aluminum manifold is a huge weight savings over the cast iron one and is designed for performance.

A mild shift kit in the transmission will help too. Probably several good ones out there but I like the B&M Shift Improver Kits. Just don't go too crazy with a shift kit, because your TH-350 does have nearly 90K on it!

If your car has close to 90K miles on it, it's definitely due for a timing set. They last between 80K to a little over 100K if you're lucky. The original timing set has nylon teeth on the cam gear. Why on God's green earth GM did that is beyond me. I'm really thinking they were intentionally designing something that would wear out and require maintenance. Anyway, Cloyes True Roller timing sets are the way to go!

You mentioned your car has "highway" gears. I'm betting it's got 2.73 gears in it. That was the standard gear ratio and highest ratio available in 1974 Cutlass. My car has 2.73's in it and it is an awesome highway cruiser. It won't win many drag races though! Wide open throttle from a standing start and leaving it in Drive, it shifts out of first at around 45 mph and shifts out of second at 78 mph. If you're going to drive your car on the highway regularly for extended periods, I would stay with a 3.08 or 3.23 ratio. Keep in mind if you change gear ratio, that will have an effect on speedometer and odometer accuracy.

Sorry this post got so long, but I hope some of the info helps you. I'm the OCA 73-77 Cutlass, 442, H/O Model Year Advisor so if you have any other questions about your car, let me know and I'll try to help.

Cheers,
Gary

zodiacblue442

I forgot a couple things in my other post.

All GM A-bodies have dual hump cross members up through 1974. In 1975, they switched to a single hump cross member because of the catalytic converter being required. That pretty much spelled the end of true dual exhaust.

The other thing you asked about was the build sheet. It depends on where your car was built. I've yet to find a build sheet in a Lansing built car. If it was built in Arlington, TX or Doraville, GA chances are pretty good the build sheet is in the car someplace. Alot of times they are taped on top of the gas tank. Other places are stuffed between the seat foam and springs in the bottom of one of the seats, behind a door panel, stuffed up under the dash, or under the carpet. In my 442 the build sheet was between the sound deadner and floor pan on the passenger side, right where the exhaust pipe ran. Most of the build sheet was too crispy to read. I also found a small corner of a second copy of the build sheet above the headliner. My 74 Supreme is a Lansing built car and I've looked extensively for the build sheet, to the point I'm convinced it isn't there.

Have fun!
Gary

74CutlassSupreme350

Thanks alot for all the input! I dont mind long posts, they usually contain either alot of information or some form of story, both of which are ok in my opinion! My car is a deep red/brown exterior(almost the color of dried blood) with a beige vinyl roof. The interior is a matching beige. Ill try and upload a photo or two

74CutlassSupreme350

The best picture I have of the car as it is right now. Ignore the drivers side door panel being off. The window regulator broke due to all of the old grease inside hardening up after 40 years(who would have guessed).





The car with some rims a friend of mine had laying around. The 295s just barely clear on the back, and when the car flexed they rubbed. Have to stick with smaller wheels I guess.

oldcutlass

Nice

76olds

If you are planning on running those rear tires and rims I would install some Olds vista cruiser station wagon coils. I put them in my 76 due to the rim backspacing on my cragars.
Gary certainly covered many things, he's always helpful on the 73-77 Oldsmobile forum as well.
I also put the Edelbrock Performer intake on my 76 350, takes one heck of alot of weight off the engine.
If you have the extra cash after your timing chain, gears and exhaust I would add the intake.
Great pics, car looks to be in awesome shape,let us know which way your going when you start with the mods.
Cheers
Eric

74CutlassSupreme350

So the vista cruiser coils will give me some more height in the back to accommodate the wider tire? Ive been searching all over for a coil spacer and honestly, was just going to give up and run the stock rims because I didnt think I was going to find a way of getting the space I needed. If a vista coil will work, then I guess Ill be ordering two of those and 4 tires to fit those rims... right after i find the timing kit :P

74CutlassSupreme350

Also, Im looking on Cloyes website, and they list an OE replacement timing set, and 5 "Performance" sets. What should I be getting here?

oldcutlass

Based on your description of what your looking for the OE replacement will work fine.

74CutlassSupreme350

Great, once the snow is gone Ill order it from napa or parts source. Thanks guys!

76olds

Wagon coils will go in no problem, They will push the rear up about 4 inches off those tires. It will be a firmer ride in the rear which I'm sure you know when taking the rear up that high. Air shocks are another option.
I have both wagon coils and air shocks in my 76.
You won't find a Cloyes timing chain at Napa or Parts Source up here in Canada, you will have to get one from Performance Improvements if Cloyes is what you want.
But as Eric mentioned an OE will be fine from Napa or Parts Source.

74CutlassSupreme350

That info about the coils is great! Will I need the longer wagon shocks too? As for the timing chain, maybe Ill just order it from cloyes and have it shipped to the border(only a 45 minute drive from here). Thanks again everyone for all of your input. This summer my big goal is 1. Timing 2. Insurance 3. Tires. Hopefully I can afford it all ahahah

76olds

I'm not sure about the shocks, I initially had air shocks to begin with, They started leaking after about 6 years so I then added the wagon coils and replaced the air shocks all at once.
You may get away without doing the chain for the first summer, do a couple of oil changes and see if you find any of the plastic cam gear (orange bits) I wouldn't go over 100k before you change it thou.
I hope you can afford it as well, you have a very nice cruiser for your age. Enjoy it .
Eric ( Oldcutlass) and others can give you lots of guidance and help if you run into problems swapping the chain. I realize your an apprentice mechanic but these guys are the pro's when it come to these old cars.

White_Knuckles

Nice tips going on here. I'm getting fun car and a need for a bit more kick. To make her scoot you need to pick engine swap or gearing change. But which?

Should the car be a keeper, pick what upgrades will carry over to the final dream build. Let's say you go for a tire burning gear ratio. Great, but when you swap in the 455 later, it becomes a tractor pull contestant. Bad.

We all have our opinions what may wake her up a little but my experience suggests you don't put a bunch of bolt-ons on her as they usually yield little gain. Headers for example do add high REV breathing goodness with low back pressure and equal length tubes. Sounds dandy fine. Ah, but they actually take away from low-end torque where leaving the light is now even more wimpy. Cars with buckets of low-end need the headers to gain ponies at the 6K mark. For this car, I'm thinking twin pipes with a crossover "H" section would possibly be noticeable with a proper flowing muffler. Headers? Not so much. Not sure why so many recommend them.

The engine really has no original value. At least in my crowd. A mild tuned 350 would be a great choice. I have a 70 350 Olds with #6 heads, a bumpy cam, RPM intake, Edelbrock 600 carb, HEI distributor, and manifolds - dual pipes. That thang hauls. Just saying you can stay Olds original with a low cost hot-rod upgrade. My friends think it's cool being an Olds motor. Secretly I'd like to stuff a dual turbo LS motor into that bad-boy ... hoo hoo!

Your investment should come with a pay-off. That engine can't be improved to be fun - ever. Find your acceptable dream build and work toward it. Don't waste time and $$ trying to make a tire shredder out an emissions whacked, low compression toad. The drive train upgrade is a good starting option to consider. You can build an appropriate engine on the side. Together they make the pay-off.

74CutlassSupreme350

Im not trying to make a 1/4 mile ripping, tire shredding, red light racer. I simply wanted a few more ponies, because this is a really large and heavy car, and as a highway cruiser, it needs some more get up and go power. Between the suggestions everyone has made here Im sure it will more than suffice for what I want. If further down the road when I have a slight bit more disposable income I decide I want to drop a 455 into it, maybe I will do so

coppercutlass

I completely disagree with the header comment. From personal experience even on a very mild engine it makes a diffrence ., I also prefer an x pipe I have personally had great gains ar the track with one.

76olds

I don't agree with the header comment either, now if your going to run 3" pipes off the headers on our smog year engines than it would be a little lazy getting going. However 2 1/4 " no bigger is good for decent gains. As for the H or X pipe I have no idea I went straight back.
I think Riley nailed it when he mentioned he only wanted a mild cruiser with a little more grunt, then go to the 455 if and when he feels the need for more power.