71supreme

Hey guys,

I am in process of getting my 71 Cutlass Supreme back on the road after about 13 years of sitting. Outside of some general tuneup stuff I am working on, it seems to be running fine, so I have turned my attention to the other items that are needed to get it back on the road.

My headlights don't work. none of them, high, low, or otherwise. Running lights are not working either - front or back.

My brake and turn signal lights work fine, glove box & interior lights light right up. So I am thinking it must be the headlight switch. I have looked at the previous posts/threads, but not found what I need to know. If I missed something, please direct me. I am looking for a description and pictures, because nothing in my manuals seems to adequately describe what I should be doing. Help!?!?!?!?

jaunty75

As a quick thing, did you check the dimmer switch on the floor? Power for the headlights goes through this to the headlights. It's an easy thing to check as it's easy to get at, it's a common source of headlight problems, and it's a cheap, easy replacement.

But the fact that the taillights don't work, either, suggests the problem might be as you say. Do you have a factory service manual for your car? You say none of your manuals help. What manuals do you have, exactly? Haynes or Chilton or something like that will probably not have this. The factory service manual certainly will.

To get at the headlight switch will most likely involve at least partial disassembly of the dash, and the manual will tell you how to do that. It'll also tell you how to remove the switch itself, which often involves pressing in a little button somewhere on the switch (often on the bottom) to remove the shaft to allow you to actually remove the switch from the car.

Headlight switches should be readily available at any auto parts store, and they're not expensive.

71supreme

Thanks jaunty!

I did check the dimmer switch, no power there either.

Guilty as charged on the manuals, Chiltons & Haynes. Guess it's time to get a factory service manual...

I took the vent above the switch out. That was easy enough, but the duct looks near impossible to get out. It seems there is one screw in the upper left corner holding it in - though there may be more. When I peer through the duct area, what i can see of the switch looks quite oxidized.

The Haynes manual says to pull the control **** all the way out and turn it to its furthest position (doesn't say which way) then something about pressing on a spring loaded button, but I cant see behind the switch to tell roughly where it is. I will try to see what I can see on the bottom. I appreciate the tip.

I did see a lot of what I believe Rob described as "pixie dust" coming from the switch as I tried the pull & turn thing. yikes!

On a side note I also found plenty of room to toss a cat through the front floor while checking the dimmer switch.

Thanks again jaunty! any other tips/help/ideas are welcomed with open arms!

jaunty75

You can start taking some of the screws out around the area of the dash that the switch is attached to as that might allow you to loosen the dash enough to get at the switch.

The Haynes manual is right about turning ***** and pressing buttons, but you have to get at them. When you do, that will remove the shaft with the **** (don't try to remove the **** FROM the shaft -- they're likely one unit). You'll also have to loosen the escutcheon or whatever the retaining ring is that holds the switch to the dash. It unscrews. Then the switch will come off the dash from behind. You'll (obviously) need to remove the wiring pigtail from the switch, but it should be pretty obvious how to do that. But if it hasn't been removed in 39 years, it might need a good tug.

When I removed the headlight switch on my '73 Custom Cruiser, removing the pigtail actually caused the headlight switch to fall apart in my hand. That kind of clinched for me the idea that I would need to get a new one.

71supreme

Well, I just broke down and bought a shop service manual. Hopefully it'll give me some new insights.

In the mean time I'll check for more screws and see what I can undo. I'm going to have to get a piece of cardboard and start labeling these screws, there seems to be a lot of them.

The pigtail is in need of a good tug, but can only barely get my hand in to grab it.

hehehe, wish this one would crumble in my hand. That kind of validation is priceless, and removal would be much easier!

Thanks for the tips jaunty, I'll keep you posted....

lshlsh2

Just did this repair myself. Took about half an hour. It is one of those things once you do it it is pretty easy.

You have to get at the switch by going through the hole where the gas gauge is.
There is a button on top of the switch that allows the shaft with **** to be pulled out. I had to loosen the escutcheon to get at the button.

One thing that helped me was getting the switch first and looking at it and seeing the button on top. You can't see anything and have to go by feel. seeing the new one helped me. If you have a/c it is more cramped than without.
Found my switch at auto zone less than 15 bucks. There are directions with the switch that are fair.

Hope this helps
Larry

71supreme

Super cool, Thanks Larry! Yes, I's got all the frustration of A/C with none of the comfort, as the compressor and brackets were in a box that was left behind while it was in storage.

I did get the gas gauge out & have made an attempt or 2 at getting back there. I will try again Monday. I will also pick up a switch @ NAPA (the only local shop likely to stock it)& take a good look at it.

Thanks again Larry!

lshlsh2

Sounds like my a/c. All there but none of the comfort.

lshlsh2

Also
DON'T FORGET TO DISCONNECT THE BATTERY

Lady72nRob71

Find the big red wire ont he headlight switch and if 12V is present, then the switch is bad. If the magic smoke or pixie dust came out, then it will definetely be bad.

This thread gives a little info on changing the headlight switch.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...t-my-72-s.html

You will need an extra hand for reinstallation, so find a helper if you can.
The little button is about 1/4" dia and best way to find it is by feel.
This is a time to also replace the "lights" illumination bulb (#1445). It took me and hour JUST to replace that stupid bulb. Add another half hour for changing the switch.

71supreme

Thanks Larry! I got one of those quick disconnect attachments Bluevista recommended. I shoulda got one sooner, they are the coolest!

Thanks Rob! I just got the shaft & **** out, and found the Lights illumination bulb. .

Now I can't figure out how to remove the actual switch. I see the 4 rectangles on the outside. Do they have anything to do with it?

I've tried turning them counter clockwise using a small screwdriver, but with no luck. I can turn the switch from the back ok, and when I do the round piece with the four rectangles moves with it. any ideas?

lshlsh2

I used 2 screw drivers. one across from the other. Also try twisting the switch itself to loosen. Yes it is counter clockwise.
Larry

Lady72nRob71

This is how I got mine out, too. Yours must be stuck. That thing with the 4 slots is a big nut that is unscrewed.
I used two smaller screwdrivers, held them firmly together, put the ends in the slots, held them firmly in and turned CCW. They actually had a "special tool" that was made for this nut.

71supreme

Thanks guys!

I asked about Clockwise/counter-clockwise b/c I couldn't tell if it was threaded from the switch out, or from the lil cover going in, and it was in there pretty good so that was huge!

I got it out, but not before piercing my previously nearly perfect dashpad. I am hoping a dot of clear silicone or something similar will help.In hindsight I should have used some type of heavy tape or something to protect it given my butterfingers nickname. Oh well, I'm not looking to have a show car anyway, besides at this rate it'll take me a decade or 2 to finish.

The installation should go much smoother. Thanks again!

Lady72nRob71

Bummer on the gouge... With as deep as it looks, tape might not have helped much. I think I did the same, but lighter.

When reassembling, replace the 1445 bulb and the opening in the bulb shield should point towards the lights word and the little hole in the bezel.

Bluevista

I use needle nosed pliers spread open a little with electrical tape on the ends for that nut.

They still do.
It's cheaper than a new dashpad too.

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/f...282&cat=3&trk=

71supreme

Crap, this has been one ouch after another. I installed the new switch, turned the power on, and (nearly) filled the interior with smoke. The brown wire with white stripe seems to be the culprit, but it seems to have at least lightly damaged other wires as well.

I was so close... now I think I have 3 options,

- Remove and repair this one
- scout out a used one
- spend big $ on a new one.

Since I don't have big$ I am trying to figure out weather 1 or 2 would be best or the unthinkable... call it a day & sell the beast for parts. Any thoughts, ideas, help, words of encouragement? Could I trust a repaired harness? could I trust a used harness? What would I have to do to ensure its safe?

Thanks all for the help!

lshlsh2

First go grab a beer and take a breath.

A new harness is probably the best. Pulling the old harness and repairing next as long as it isn't to bad. That might be the best in your sitution. I would stay away from used wiring harnesses. In my mind you are buying someone elses problems.
The devil you know is better than the one you don't.
Larry

71supreme

Thanks Larry! That was perfect advice ( about beer & breath, though now I have beer breath...

A quick check reveals just the one brown wire with white stripe affected. Will continue to inspect...

Any info on that wire, what it does, or why it would get so hot so quick? It may be in the shop manual I ordered, but that won't be in for a few days.

71supreme

Can I test the switch or should I just it? It doesn't look bad. Would a fried wire automatically lead to a fried switch? I only had power going to the switch for about 15 seconds

Lady72nRob71

And another...

First we need to find out where your short is still at.
It must have burned open your last switch.
That wire that smoked is the main taillight feed from the fuse box. Is the TAIL fuse really 20A? It should have blown.
Is the INST LPS fuse a 4A? It is the short one at the bottom.

All the parking light and tail light and side maker light sockets need to be inspected for damage, rust, or mis-installed bulbs.
Dont forget the lic plate light. These are all fed from that brown-striped wire. (Headlights are fed from elsewhere).
Check the wiring for cuts, wires pinched, rodent damage, or PO wiring hacks.

When the cause is corrected, the damaged wires can be removed and replaced from a used donor harness. The terminals come out of the connectors pretty easily. Reattaching to the fusebox will be chalenging but possible.
If more than just a few wires are damaged, a new harness and switch connector may be the best fix.

Please post a picture of the damaged area for evaluation. (the new switch is prolly still okay).
Check that fuse first!!!

71supreme

Awesome! Thanks Rob!

Tail light fuse blown (haven't checked tiny 4a fuse yet, that's gonna be a bit o work)
Only wire apparently affected = brown with white stripe, traced from switch to fuse box. I am amazed this seems to be the only wire affected, as the brown and white wire cover practically burned clean off! There were bits of burned wire stuck to other wires, but none of those wires even had bubbling on them.

I haven't checked the wires coming from the fuse box, but there was nothing obvious. Since the one wire was pretty fried, I figured any subsequent damage would be as well, but I will inspect further. .....

71supreme

A note about the first installation of the new switch. When I first put it in, everything worked fine. I pushed the rod and **** in & it didn't "click" in, so I unscrewed the battery shut off, and tried putting the rod & **** in the old switch again, and it worked, then I took the new switch all the way back out and tried it. It seemed that If I held the button down and twisted, it would click. I then reinstalled the switch, and used a screwdriver to hold the button down, then pushed the rod and **** in and twisted. It did click in.

I Pulled the **** out as far it would go, and twisted the battery shut off **** to turn it back on and walked toward the drivers side door. as I did, I saw smoke, and jumped back to shut the battery power off.

and that is the full story of how I got to where I am now....

Lady72nRob71

Well, sounds like it is not a short elsewhere in the car, but more of something that occured during the installation. Considering there is only one burned wire, it must have been shorted to ground in the switch itself.
So the lights came on normally the first time? If so, then we need to focus on the switch.

Was the fuse indeed a 20A? Taking so long to blow and melting the main feed wire has me concerned. If it was 20A, go down to a 10A during troubleshooting or aligator clip an old working headlight in place of the fuse to limit current to 4-5A, the typical draw of the system.

I am thinking when you were pushing the **** in and trying to get it to stay in, you could have damaged the new switch. Only thing I can think of right now.
When I changed out the switch on my Ford a couple years ago, I had a heck of a time trying to get the **** to stay in.

AZ442

Pick may help.

Lady72nRob71

One correction on the picture - there is no Orange wire for dome light - only the white dome light ground that is already marked.

The Orange should be Brown with white stripe from TAIL fuse.

71supreme

Whew, Thanks Rob. I thought so, but didn't know quite what to say.

Should I trust the switch, or swap it for new? Is there a way to test the switch?

71supreme

It was a 20A fuse. I had a strip of tin foil on that fuse, which had to have been there since I was driving regularly. Fuse blew, foil must have kept the circuit closed.

lshlsh2

Some PO did something stupid or maybe temporary and forgot(betting on stupid) and created alot of extra work for you. You can be very thankful for the quick disconnect or your car could have ended up looking like Jamesbo's 69. I'm glad that it didn't.

Larry

Lady72nRob71

Foil + Fuse = Fire

Given the low cost of switches, I might just replace it. Heck, it could have been defective already since it would not hold the ****.
see if you can exchange it.

Hope the foil is all gone now...

71supreme

hmmm, PO, sounds better than what I was thinkin.

lesson learned, though I never even thought about it b/c it's something I haven't done in years. While I was in there I also removed the foil from the w/wiper fuse. erf...

Thanks Rob, that's what I was thinking too...

btw...What is the best way to remove the old wire from the fusebox? I don't want to break anything. does it just pop out, or is there a trick to it?

Thanks again for all the help!

lshlsh2

[quote=71supreme;209483]hmmm, PO, sounds better than what I was thinkin.



You can't print that on a family fourm.

71supreme

This is a picture of the piece that connects the wire in the back of the fusebox to the actual fuse.

Does anyone know what this is called, or where I can get a new one? Is it a generic hardware/auto parts place type thing, or something I have to order from a specialty shop?

jaunty75

I don't think there's any special name for it. It's just a clip. Since you have it out, take it with you to a hardware or auto parts store and see if they have one. You might also have to try a Radio Shack-type place, although Radio Shack itself has become less and less an electronics parts shop and more and more like a miniature Best Buy over the years.

One question I have is, what's wrong with the one in the picture? Is something broken off of it?

71supreme

Thanks Jaunty!

It's old and brittle. I tried to open the connectors with a small nail, and the top one just cracked. I do know a top notch electronics guy who could probably solder up something nice for me, and fit it with a tight little shrink wrap to keep it all together. That's what I am thinking I may do. I send him enough electronics stuff he would do something like this free or wicked cheap.

Lady72nRob71

Best way to do it - the barter system. Treat him for a steak and some beer and you will get your wire fixed FoC.

71supreme

Alright, Don hooked me up, and I am back in business.

I'll be putting this baby in Friday. Hopefully all goes well...

71supreme

hehehe, better than a steak, I brought him more work to do for me. Every CD player cleaning apparently comes with a free soldered wire.

lshlsh2

Good Luck I hope this solves your problem
Larry