BigValJ

First off, I'm very sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I saw search results for similar topics show up all over the place, with this being the most common sub forum. But apologies if I got it wrong.

I had an upholster here in town redo the top to my '68 Cutlass S. He works on moderns and classics. Really good guy with a great track record.
BUT, he had some issues with my top he has to fix (which he's happy to do). So I'm doing some recon for him to help out. His father was the real go-to on 70s and earlier cars but unfortunately recently passed away. So this gentlemen didn't have a chance to absorb all of his father's info (as that's a LOT of info for so many makes and models). He knows a lot and does a lot. But he freely admits he is still nailing down things for older classics.

The latches on the new top were really stiff and hard to latch. But he wanted to let the top stretch out before he adjusted anything near the header and pillars. I got lucky that I had the block pulled to restore, so the latched top was able to sit there for a full year. We'll see if that did the trick here soon.

The bigger issue is that the top rails have almost an inch gap between the weatherstripping and the top corner of the rear quarter windows.
On the old top, the stripping came together in a curved pattern (or so I recall) that matched the shape of the quarter windows. But the stripping kit he used on the new top comes together and makes sort of a "corner" near the top of the quarter windows. I don't think it's a simple matter of trimming the seals then overlapping them differently because of how they connect to the rails. BUT I fully admit complete ignorance about how to fix/adjust something like this, and he has suggested that he feels he can adjust the strips.
I'm not sure where he bought the stripping kit, but I believe it was a company out of Michigan.
CORRECTION EDIT: He got the kit from Metro out of Minnesota

You can also see that adjusting the height of the quarter windows won't help as it would not close the corner gap there with the current weatherstripping due to the lack of a matching curve.

REGARDLESS...
I would be grateful for advice on the following:
- Any tips in regards to the stiffness & difficulty latching the top?
- Who sells the best OEM weatherstripping kit for a 1968 Cutlass Convertible? (I was under the impression the top is the same through '72, but I'm sure I'm wrong)
- Are there weatherstripping kits I should avoid as they've proven not to work (maybe even for the reason I just listed)?
- Any other advice or tips in general for a new convertible top, that are things that may have been overlooked during the install, that are specific to this year/model car?

Thank you so much for any and all information!

jaunty75

From my experience in owning several convertibles over the years, including, currently, a '73 Delta 88.


I've encountered this as well. It's definitely a "feel" thing, in my experience. If I can get the top to latch with a reasonable amount of effort but not "too much," I'm happy. I like the top to be as snug to the top of the windshield as possible. With a '75 Delta 88 convertible I once owned, the top latched just fine, but on a trip at highway speeds in the summer time, small bugs would come through the gap, as small as it was, between the front of the top and the top of the windshield, and land on the dashboard. Also, if it rained at all, some water would drip through as well. Obviously, it could have been tighter, but I rarely drove the car in the rain, and I didn't do all that much highway driving (mostly used for quick trips to the ice cream shop with the kids), so I never bothered to try to adjust it.

This question gets asked on this site ALL the time. There are only three major manufacturers (that I'm aware of) of weatherstripping for old cars, Metro Moulded Parts, Soffseal, and Steele Rubber products. All are fine, in my experience. I have mostly used Metro with no problems, and I bought a kit to redo the weatherstripping on a '67 Delta 88 convertible I once owned.

Keep in mind that, while there are only three manufacturers of weatherstripping, everyone sells it. But they're just reselling what these manufacturers produce. So SHOP AROUND. A number of places, in my experience (Autozone, Rockauto, Fusick), resell Metro rubber, sometimes with the exact same part number and sometimes with a part number of their own. But prices can vary widely, and Rockauto tends to be the cheapest, but you do have to pay shipping. Check Amazon as well as they also sell Metro rubber, and, if you're a Prime member, shipping is free. One thing to remember is that buying it directly at the manufacturer's website is usually not where you'll get the best price. Steele tends to be the most expensive, in my experience.

Stick with one of the three I mentioned, and you should be fine.

Another way to "loosen" a tight top, especially if it's new, is to latch it and then let it just sit in the sun. The heat will slight soften the vinyl and allow it to expand, and it should retain some of that shape afterwards.

BigValJ

Thank you so much for you reply andinfo!

Is there any word on the street if anyone has a proven track record of being more true to manufacturer's specs?
I realize that's a loaded question, as they make continued improvement to rubber compounds over the years, and how the trimming is designed to fight against leakage / wear-and-tear.

He got his kit from Metro. So, any idea why the strips look the way they do around the quarter windows in the photos I previously attached? That's where I'm stuck...
Could those strips be adjusted where they meet, and are there any tricks/tips for that? Is the Metro kit not the best kit for a '68 Cutlass, and SoffSeal and Steele make stripping that form along those quarter window curves better?

Who would have thought trying to match the previous stripping would be such a pain...

jaunty75

Nothing that I've ever heard of, but you're asking an awful lot of rubber here. It's purposely a little thick, and when it is first installed it needs to be "broken in." So, for example, if you put it on a door, the door will require a little extra effort to get fully close. But leave it closed, and, over time, the rubber's shape will change to conform to the door and frame that it's mounted between. I'm sure these rubbers are all the same dimensions to a few millionths of an inch regardless of supplier. If you have fitment problems, it's not the rubber.


To be honest, I can't tell what I'm looking at in those photos. Show us the entire thing. Put the top up and latched, and put the windows all the way up. Then take photos from the sides so we can see any gaps between the windows and the weatherstripping. Small gaps might be something to just live with as that's the nature of convertibles. I'd never take mine through a carwash, for instance. But if the gaps are too large, to my mind the problem is more likely in the top being out of adjustment. I've seen photos of poorly adjusted tops where it looks like it's bulging upward, and there are 1-inch gaps above the windows all around.

The bottom line is, if you're having window/weatherstripping fitment problems, it's most likely not the weathestripping but more likely in the adjustment of the top itself.

Bfg

They used to stuff rags in the older convertibles to fill the void and to stop drafts, hence the term RAGTOP

jaunty75

Er, I don't think so.

People may have stuffed rags into gaps to seal them, but that's not the origin of the term. They're called ragtops simply because, while tops in recent times are generally made of vinyl, which is a plastic, they were originally made of canvas, which is a cloth. Cloth = rag, in slang. I have very occasionally heard convertibles referred to as clothtops as well.

jaunty75

Reminds me of a Peanuts comic strip I saw once where Lucy is explaining to her brother Linus why they're called palm trees. She said it's because their trunks are so small in diameter that the average person can fit the palm of their hand completely around it. Makes a good story, but that doesn't make it so. In the comic strip, Charlie Brown was off to the side banging his head against the wall.

Bfg

Never heard them being referred to as cloth tops, I have heard them called drop tops but hardly anybody calls them convertibles. Also have heard them called canopy’s

major tom

The Brits call them Drop Heads, I call 'em rag tops. Simply because the roofs are not made out of steel. Like that episode on Seinfeld where George experiences "shrinkage" at an impromptu moment, rag tops experience shrinkage. UV, water, temp, humidity, age...they shrink and when they do they pull away from the windows and nothing can fix it I have found other than replacement. My top, 25 years later, is holding up well. Some threads here and there. Some stains that will not bleach out any longer. But it fits the car and I like it.

BigValJ

Hopefully this helps illustrate it better.
It's exactly like this on both sides of the car, so I focused on one side of the car to hopefully keep things less confusing.

The 1st photo is a regular shot of the side with the windows and the top.
The 2nd photo has some digital mark-up I did showing the curve of the quarter window (in green), then the way the new strip kit was finished (in purple).
The 3rd photo is the same as the 2nd, but now it shows (in red) the gap between the curve of the quarter window and the weather stripping. You can stick your fingers in there since the gap is so big.

The problem with those small gaps on either side, along with being really noisy, is they also act like small vacuums. They pull any smell into the cabin that I happen to pass by; mostly bad.

It wasn't like this before I had the top re-done. The weather stripping worked with the shape of the curve of the quarter window. So I don't know if it's an adjustment he can easily make but doesn't know how to do (because I certainly don't), or if he needs a different strip kit.

So I'm open to any suggestions / tips on what to do to adjust the current weather stripping,
or if anyone knows which company has the best OEM strip kit to fit. As I mentioned before, the current strip kit the upholster used came from Metro.

I'm riding by his shop next week and any info I can arm myself with ahead of time is appreciated. Thank you in advance for any and all input!

Fun71

It’s hard to tell for sure, but it appears the weatherstrips are binding against each other at the joint.

In your last picture, you can see that the rearmost weatherstrip is not following the shape of the glass. Same thing for the rear part of the upper weather strip (second to last section). Maybe remove that section of weather strip (the second to last piece) on both sides and see if the top then meets the rearmost glass edge.

BigValJ

Would removing a section (or trimming it, if that is an option to make the strips curve better) cause any issue with how the strips connect to the frame, especially when it's retracted, or put back up? And thank you!

acavagnaro

I'm just going by the pictures you've posted but it doesn't look to me like your problem is the rubber. It looks to me like your window and top frame are out of adjustment. From the side, the vertical chrome strip on your quarter window looks to line up well with your front window. That's good. Does the forward edge of your front window line up correctly with your A-pillar? If so, your windows are good in the fore-aft direction. If not, you need to get the front window dialed in also. Make sure it's lined up correctly with the A-pillar. Then, make sure the top of the front window is aligned properly with the top.
The quarter window forward edge then needs to align with the rear edge of the front window. If this is all good, you then have to determine if the quarter window needs to tilt in or out to close the gap you've indicated with your colored lines. That back upper corner of the quarter glass can be difficult to align with the top.
It's tempting to think 'it was right before and all I did was replace the top so why is it no longer aligned?'. With a new top and new rubber, everything will need some amount of tweaking to dial it back in.
The good news is GM made everything adjustable. The bad news is that you have to remove door panels and other trim to get to the adjustment points.

I could be way off. Like I said, I'm only going by your pictures but this definitely seems to be what you need to do to close the gaps. I don't think any other rubber supplier is going to fix your problem. The Fisher body manual shows all of the adjustment points for the top and windows.

jaunty75

I agree completely, The problem is not the weatherstripping, it is in the top adjustment.

The only info you need is to say, when you get there, "hey guy, the top and windows fit fine before you replaced the top, and now they don't. Can you do anything?" I have to believe that someone who regularly replaces convertible tops doesn't have some experience in making adjustments so that it fits correctly.

midrange

Tops Online, where I just bought my top kit from for my '71 Cutlass, shows a separate line item for a '68 convertible.
I'm wondering if you have the top seal kit for the '69 to '72 since your seals make the more 'angular' window shape that my '71 has.

Tops Online

Bfg

I can’t see that 68 would be any different than the 69 thru 72

BigValJ

Thank you for that! I gave them a call but it turns out the only difference in that '68 kit and the '69-'72 kit is the header seal. The side seals are the same. I had my hopes up, though, and appreciate the detective work!!

So that brings me to what acavagnaro and jaunty75 said...

I think you are correct in your assessment. Thank you!
The quarter on one side is lower than one side window, and the quarter on the other side is higher than that side window.

The A-pillars looks good at first glance. The passenger side might could use a slight adjustment so I'll point that out to the upholster. He had even mentioned that the top might be too tight and the A-pillars may need further adjusting if it didn't stretch out.
But regardless, the tops of the side windows need height adjusting as pointed out, as they are not in line. And, hopefully once he gets those and the frame adjusted to match, things will fall more in place.

My brain has a hard time seeing how the curve of the quarter windows will fit into that seal where it joins at a point there in the rear, though. I feel like no matter how much the windows and frame is adjusted, the curve of those quarter windows won't match where those two seals meet. BUT, again, I really have no idea as I'm a moron here about this topic. It might suddenly fall into place like magic once he makes his adjustment.

I appreciate all the help!