66-3X2 442

OK,I have a 70 W 30 auto with A/C. The car has what appears to be the original rear axle with a TM code 3.42 ratio. Some tell me and the assembly manual says that 3.42 were not available with A/C. I talked to Brian Trick and he seems to remember somebody here having a documented car with A/C & 3.42 gears. Does anybody know anything about this? Any help and info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

jensenracing77

3.42 could come with A/C in a 70 W-30 but if you had the W-27 rear end the only gear with A/C was 3.23. i feel sure there is more to this but can't find it right now. for some reason, i was thinking that with A/C it would be an SH rear end and not the TM? i think Kurt should answer this one. i need more info myself.

jensenracing77

i was just coming in to change what i posted.... i thought my W-30 was 3.42 but i just went out and looked and it is 3.23 like you are saying. it would be an SF code but wouldn't that be the smaller axles in the SF like what the SH had?

stevengerard

My car has AC a W27 rear end and its the 3.42 (SX code IIRC) but not telling if it was original. This has come up before and i have had a couple of folks say their AC equiped W30 car came with 3.42s with the W27. But the assembly manual and everything else i've seen say 3.23s are steepest you can get on AC cars

Mr Shifty Sidney

Mike,
Can you check the date code on the rear? While this may not prove that it is original, if the date is out of line with the rest of the car,it could prove that it is not original.???

Don W

66-3X2 442

Don

Yes,that my next step. I had an eye procedure Wednesday and I need to stay away from any thing that might cause me problems with it. As soon as I can see again,I'm all over it.

Thanks

Mike

66-3X2 442

I understand that for sure. I had already checked for the stamped build date next to the cover but there was nothing stamped there. I'm going to check the casting date to see if it's after the build date of the car. If it's after,then the rear was changed,if it's before,well that just deepens the question. Trust me,I'm not saying it's original to the car,just trying to figure out why it has a W 30 only 3.42 TM code rear if it wasn't available. I learned many years ago to never say never,just doing some research,that's all.

11971four4two

An example: Friend bought a 67 GTO RAM AIR III new. Car had 4.33 and he complained. The dealer changed the entire rear to 3.91 when the car was new. The code on the rear was not even for 1967, 1966, but it was a code for 1968. And he always thought they only changed the ring and pinion.

Also, entire sub-axles were available when the cars were new as at times they were serviced as an entire unit under warranty.

Like he said

The axle could have started life as a service replacement or out of another Olds.

TM codes were stamped on 68 and 69 3.42 abody 12bolt O axles , not w30 only like in 1970.

11971four4two

The book i have shows TM codes used
67 3.42 anti-spin
68 3.42 anti-spin 12bolt olds
69 3.42 anti-spin 12bolt olds
70 3.42 anti-spin w30
71 3.42 anti-spin w30
72 3.42 anti-spin w30

maybe the book is wrong
I was just trying to help out and/or learn something

66-3X2 442

The Super Cars Unlimited By The Numbers book shows 67-69 3.42 TM codes being correct for all applications. Then it shows the 70-72 TM codes being a W 30 only code. If the 3.42 was available in 67,it had to be an O type 12 bolt axle as the 3.42 wasn't available on the P-Axle. The 67 3.42 12 bolt would have been a 31 spline unit as well.

GAOldsman

My book says 3.42:1 was standard with W30 & automatic however it wasn't availible with C60 (A/C) and/or Y72 (HD Cooling Equipment) Also that to have A/C with W30 that G91 (3.23:1) was required as well as M40 (TH400) and JL2 (Power Front Disc Brakes) in 1970 same for '71. I hope this helps

GAOldsman

And yes in 1970 TM = 3.42:1 on 3100 - 4400 series except W27 and

SX = 3.42:1 on 3100 - 4400 series with W27

66-3X2 442

That's what the assembly manual on WAC site says also. As I said,this topic has come up before and according to 507Olds,it seems that someone had a 70 documented car with 3.42 and A/C. Just trying to rustle the bushes a little to see if it's so. Thanks for the reply.

Mike

GAOldsman

That's cool. It would be neat to see some documentation on that

66-3X2 442

What I don't understand about Olds logic that the 3.42 was too low a gear for the 70 with A/C is,you could have a 3.55 with A/C in 66/67,go figure. The only logic I can think of is,the 66/67 A/C 442's did not use a water control valve and used a reducer instead. The 66/67 442's used a reducer instead of a nipple where the heater hose connected to the intake. The reducer looked just like a nipple but had a restrictor inside of it to slow down the water to keep from blowing the heater core. Most 66/67 cars came with 3.55 or lower gears,so that's why they did that. It could be in 70 A/C cars,rather than fight the heater core problem with the lower gear cars,they just didn't put anything lower than 3.23 gears in them. As I said,the 66/67 442's with A/C didn't use a water control valve and it's thought that the same problem with the heater cores is the same with the water control valves. That could be another reason they didn't use any gear lower than 3.23 to prevent the water control valve blow out problem. This is assuming that all 70 442's with A/C used water control valves,right?

66-3X2 442

Could be,the 455's are harder to cool than the 66/67 400's are. Do you think you can cool a 455 with a 4 blade fan and no shroud? That's what the non A/C non heavy duty cooling 66/67 442's had. As far as the compressor theroy goes,the 66/67 cars had A 6 compressors like the 70 cars did. So that blows that theory. Next?

66-3X2 442

That's a possibility,after all,Olds was usually on the cutting edge. It's really not a quarter turn,more like .19 but who's counting.

trucker442

All this chat about diifs. got me wandering about mine. 1970 442 4 spd no air and an sh code. I have read that the sh code is a 3:42? thanks...

GAOldsman

Yes 1970 SH code is for 3.42:1 without W30

Rickman48

Having been in GM parts for about 8 yrs. from 1966, [the good years!] Nickey Chev., a Cad-Olds dealer, and Pontiac, I've never seen a drum to drum rear assembly, let alone sold one.
Don't remember seeing a assembly listed either, but was never asked.
Probably sold over a hundred R+P sets, though.

leepear

It is easiest to use the theory that if there is some bullet proof documentation out there somewhere that option could have happened. I have never seen a 3:42 with air or any documentation that it could be ordered or had been ordered. Our cars have had many changes over the years. Many of the w-27s have even been transplanted into cars. I would tell you that the 3:42 is my favorite ratio for all around driving and I would keep it in the car and enjoy it. With great certainty it was not ordered in your car. Lee

66-3X2 442

You're probably right,it didn't happen. We'll see what pops up contrary to popular belief.

You probably don't remember but I talked to you or sold you some parts way back in the day. I'm Mike Richards from Birmingham,Al. I know a guy who I know sold you some parts,he's Dennis Dunlap from Paris,Il. Does any of this ring a bell?

leepear

Sure does, years ago probably almost 20. That really dates me. Lee

66-3X2 442

That's about the time frame I remember. Was it me or Dennis you remember? I don't really remember us doing any business but it's possible as I've been doing this for about 30 years.

leepear

It was Dennis but I cant remember the details. I have been doing this stuff for 40 years, so many cars and parts!!!! Back then I was mostly selling stuff much of it out of the local junkyards. It took me almost all those years to finish my 70 w-30. Lee

stevengerard

Ive seen a few 70 GS's with AC whats interesting is the compressor on those cars have a larger pulley than our oldsmobiles have
C

jensenracing77

now that is a name i have not ran into for a while. from about the mid 90s to around 2007, every time i would find a car in our area he had beat me to it. i would get so mad and could never figure out how he could be so fast at finding and picking up cars. we were even in a bid war at an auction for a 65 Starfire one time... he won.

Ron Memmer eventually bought him out but i think that Dennis has got some more cars now.

66-3X2 442

Yes,Dennis was very good @ finding cars. He had a lot of cars & parts over the years. I haven't spoken with him in several years.

66-3X2 442

I don't know why I remember this but I do. You sent him a package with whatever and you taped a check to the inside of the box,he didn't see it,so it got tossed. We had a good laugh about that and I can't believe I still remember that.

66-3X2 442

OK,here's another 70 W-30 A/C car with a 3.42 rear. I called about the car and it had already been sold. I asked the guy about the rear and how he knew it was a 3.42. He said it had a TM code,this was without me saying a word about the code. He's supposedly sending me a picture of the rear with the TM code. Now,how can two 70 W-30 A/C cars have W-30 only TM code rears that wasn't suppose to be available? What's the odds of two 70 W-30 A/C cars having rears that have been changed out with a rear that was a W-30 only code? I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong,just trying to figure out how something like this got out of the factory when it wasn't available.

http://www.carrollstauto.com/site/Pr...eenproject.htm

wmachine

Next? How about this: The reason for the restriction is slow down the water flow. The pump will not appreciably build pressure and blow out a heater core. Note that it is called a high volume pump, not a high pressure pump. Too fast a flow means the water does not have enough time in the block to pick up heat and not enough time in radiator to dissipate it.

66-3X2 442

Isn't that pretty much what I said?

GAOldsman

TM code is for W30 and W31 with 3.42:1 without W27

Literature specifically states C60 (A/C) not available with G92 (3.42:1) or G88 (3.91:1) and that it is available with W30 only with M40 (Turbo 400 Trans), G91 (3.23:1) and JL2 (Power Front Disc Brakes) Also in the "Power Teams" portion of the specs literature it notes 3.42:1 not available with W30 and C60



Another bit of literature on W30 is at the middle of this '70 brochure. Standard 442 info at the top and W31 at the bottom

66-3X2 442

I completely understand what the literature/assembly manual etc. say. What I'm saying is,don't take everything you see or read from the factory as gospel. I'm just putting out there is these 70 W 30 A/C cars keep popping up with rears that are not supposed to be there. Is it not odd that there's two examples right here in our little world? I have a saying,do not ever say never when it comes to cars. I've seen too much contradiction on too many cars. My whole out look about this changed when I became open minded about things.

GAOldsman

True that brother

66-3X2 442

10-4

I'm going to tell a story that changed my thinking about cars. Years ago I bought a 68 SS Chevelle to flip. I advertised the car in Hemmings Motor News. A guy from Chicago called me about the car and said he wanted it if I sent pictures and they were OK. So I sent him pictures by mail,that's before Al Gore invented the internet. He calls and said he would take the car even though it had the wrong wheels. I asked him what was wrong about the wheels and he said 68 had Rally Wheels and the car had the 69 spoke wheels. He said that the wheels had been changed no doubt but he was OK with it. I had to go back to the guy I bought the car from to pick up the original AM/FM radio. While I was there I questioned him about the wheels and he said no way had they been changed. I told him that I talked to a guy who said he was a Chevelle guru and the car had 69 wheels on it. The guy told me to hang on,so he goes into the house and returns with a picture. The picture shows his Dad handing him the keys to his brand new 68 SS Chevelle on his return from Vietnam with the 69 wheels on the car. The picture even showed the window sticker still on the car. So I asked could I borrow the picture and I would return it in a few days. He agreed after threatening me with my life if I didn't return it. When the guy shows up from Chicago to pick up the car,I show him the picture,tell the story and all he could say was DAMN.

leepear

There are things that slipped through especially on late and early production cars. I looked at the green w-30 and it looks like a real car. But the ad does not include any documentation, window sticker or order form like I have for my car. It is 40 years and probably many owners later and the rear end could have been changed. My 1972 w-30 convertible 4 speed had three different rear ends during the time I owned it. I sold it with 3:73 when the car originally came with 3:42. It had a correct coded rear end for 1972 so the next owner would never had known it had been changed. You will need to find a bullet proof car with papers to disprove the current information that all of us old timers have received. Lee

stevengerard

I have no documentation to prove it but the evidence is there with another part of my car. On all 455s the windshield fluid reservoir should be on the passenger side. Mine is on the drivers side exactly where the assembly manual says it should be for 350s and 6 cylinders. It was never on the passenger side as the red inner fender well on the passenger side has no holes for the jug, thus I will be leaving it on the drivers side. Is it wrong, according to the assembly manual, do I have documentation it left the factory that way, no. But.... evidence says it did. So I'm also leaving my 3.42s in the car.

J-(Chicago)

While you're on the subject, I saw a 3.90 open o type on chicago craigslist today for a couple hundred bucks.

leepear

Steve, I made many decisions on the restoration. In my opinion the best overall gear ratio for an olds is the 3:42. If I had a ac car I was driving I would have a 3:42. After many judged shows I can also tell you that nobody ever got under my car to verify codes. Most of the judging is for correct and clean cars. So at the nationals you will be deducted for the washer bottle. I was deducted for making the decision to use my original windshield with correct date code, shading and the shade bar on the top. I had some small pitts and therefore lost points for my decision. I got no credit for the correctness and the only one in the show. My window sticker was attached as from the factory. Everyone else used tape on the sticker. Nobody was deducted for attach method. All that to say it is your car and you fix it like you like it. There are experts on these cars those that have collected window stickers, pictures of original and even owned dozens of w-30s. Everytime Gary the restorer that did my car does one he learns more and more about the cars. He had never done a California smog w-30 until he did my car and there is a bunch of weird stuff on a smog car. Lee