joe_padavano

I'm just HEARTBROKEN over this.

http://jalopnik.com/5739333/presiden...ance-is-a-fake

gearheads78

Its a Kennedy deal. There has to be a conspiricy.

I don't understand why they would have crushed it in the first place.

MDchanic

With all the crap that family has had to go through over the years (the name, "The Dead Kennedys" doesn't come from nowhere, you know), whether you believe it was deserved or undeserved, I think the family, and probably Teddy, who had to bury so many relatives and deal with so much press and so many psychos, foresaw the possibility of this thing becoming a sort of a "death relic" and acquiring a value and a status that were undignified, and so trashed it to prevent that from happening.

Looks like they were right, too.

Bottom line, yes, I hate the pointless destruction of old cars, but if it were the car my brother's body was driven from the airport in (for about 20 minutes), and if some nutcase was going to be willing to pay a million dollars for it on that basis alone, I'd probably crush it, too.

- Eric

gearheads78

what you say does make since.

Teenage memories of one my my favorite bands as a skater punk.

Aceshigh

Typical Barrett Jackson BS.
Just another company working hard to siphon funds from idiots with too much $$ in their pockets.
They've taken the #'s matching hysteria to new levels of fraud with legal disclaimers.

CloneWarslogo.gif
Bad memory looming.
I wouldn't want the vehicle that hauled off my dead siblings body being sold as a collector piece either.

Everyone has a different view.

Just read his answer, which is much more detailed and eloquent then my own but same point.

citcapp

They did the right thing by crushing that thing. That was a sad and painful time. Some nut job would be traveling around selling tickets to see it if sold

Don L/442

I think they should crush the fake too.
RIP

Eddie Hansen

Gotta luv Police truck!!!!!!!

Jello biafra and claus flouride !!!, classic!!!!

in a warped skater, underground kinda way hahahahahahaha

Jamesbo

Good catch Joe

Just aother example of the ole greed ball rearing it's ugly head

J-(Chicago)

This made my day.
Many clowns out there bring shame into the hobby.

442much

Because there was prolly evidence on who really killed Kennedy.

Bluevista

They probably crushed it because they were a bunch of car haters that needed more space.

You would think they would of wanted the Lincoln destroyed too if the family wanted the ambulance destroyed for personal reasons?
That Lincoln holds a lot more bad memories, I'm surprised the government didn't buy it from Ford and put it in storage or on display in the Smithsonian?
They modified it and kept using it until '77, then Ford took it back since it was leased.

It's in the Henry Ford Museum in it's own area of solemn respect in front of a McDonalds sign. Look at all those scurrilous "Death Relic" tourists gawking at it, I bet they're communists too, who else would wear red shorts that are that short.

dearborn_henry_ford.jpg

That ambulance would of been looked at the same way IMO, half the people don't know or even care.
It probably would of ended in some dusty car museum/Christmas decoration store off the interstate somewhere in Nebraska that nobody goes to except car guys.
If they had a ride that some rapper was wasted in on display it would draw that "Death Relic" crowd, there's a bunch of those cars around.

cutlassgal

......who else would wear red shorts that are that short.


Do I dare say Ken might..... lol! Then again, they might not be tight enough! Sorry Ken... had to do it.

bulldog

I,m glad to see the original car was destroyed. What is someone thinking when they try to sell a phony car with that much history.They must have known someone would try to trace its authenticity. I agree with Don L/442 they should crush the fake one too.

aliensatemybuick

I think its awesome that this fraud was uncovered...esp. that incontovertible evidence was offered to nail it to the wall. Because short of that, someone will always be willing to beleive the BS. SO many of those going around this hobby. Perfect example is the 1948 Tucker convertible, a "what could have been" car that the owner/restorer would try to get others to believe was actually sanctioned by Preston Tucker himself. Its total BS, but no "smoking gun" exists (yet) to prove it.

But this kind of fraud happens EVERY DAY, only on a smaller scale (price-wise) with the cars we love. Its never quite enough to have a nice car, not when more money can be made by claiming its something it aint. And the said thing is...most people don't seem to care. Especially the guy who over-paid for some trumped up BS car who now has a choice to believe the truth or deny it (maybe even to himself) so he can pass it on to the next sucker.

oldsconv

They probably crushed it so no one would do something terrible like drink too much, drive it off a bridge and have some poor innocent person drown.

gearheads78

LOL

I still say the pictures don't prove anything. There is not even any numbers showing on the one at the crusher. Also what year is the Ford pickup in the pile in the background. Looks awfull new for being in a yard in 1986

Railguy

I always wondered about that stuff.I saw years ago they were selling an old nascar,Bobby Alison standing right beside it saying yeah this is the car I drove back 20 30 years ago.I thought how would you know?But if everybody agreed than I guess it wouldn't matter.It's like lizzie Bordens axe the heads been replaced and the handle's been changed twice.
railguy

joe_padavano

And sadly, THAT car was a 1967 Oldsmobile...

aliensatemybuick

It'll be up for auction next year with a certificate of authenticity and ever-thin'.

442much

What are you talking about? Anyone know? I don't see any pictures of short cut off's.

Rickman48

Who would've thought a couple of 'dots' would start everyone looking into the authenticity! [after U S ]
Weren't charging $999 each, back in the '60's!!!
I say CRUSH IT, for attempted forgery!!

442much

Ohhh that car. I thought he was talking about Laura Bush, my bad.

Aceshigh

He makes a damn good argument right there.

MDchanic

If they HAD the Lincoln, they probably WOULD have had it crushed, but they didn't have it.
The ambulance was bought by the Kennedy Museum (dirt cheap military surplus, I'm sure), then crushed a few years later.
The Lincoln was retained as an active vehicle in the Presidential motor pool, then returned to Ford, as per contractual agreement, who disposed of it in the way that seemed best to them. If it had been given or sold cheap to the Kennedy Museum, I bet they would have crushed it, but they never got a hold of it, so today it sits amongst the gaudy display you see pictured.

- Eric

greenslade

what linclon is this?wasn't jfk killed in a open linclon.

MDchanic

I could be way off, but I believe it had a removable hard top, and that afterward, they retrofitted it with a bulletproof partially removable hardtop.

I bet Wikipedia could tell me, but I refuse to go to the Dark Side.

- Eric

Col Wickham

I see The taxi that Lee Harvey Oswald tried to get away in afer the shooting sold at auction in Texas for over $35,000

I remember that day pretty well. I woke up, it was my 8th birthday and Mum was crying. 22nd Nov in your world, 23rd in mine. Kennedy's assassination was felt everywhere, even down here where we were probably more aligned with Brittain than the US in those days.

aliensatemybuick

For me, the clincher is this tale of deception is the undeniably bogus letter from the supposed surgeon general of the Navy in Dec. 1963 and the response to same that tie the VIN number to the vehcle. Of course, that info. would not be especially valuable from a "medical" point of view, but how helpful it is to "prove" the vehicle's "provenance"!

Pity that the admiral who's signature appears on the letter did not hold that position at the time and in fact was retired from the Navy. That alone is the "smoking gun", because it proves a deperate (not to mention shoddy) attempt at deception.



Anyone with an hour or more to kill can read though 25 pages of scrutiny on this vehicle (down to the incorrect font on the auction vehicle's lettering and the correct one on the vehicle crushed by the JFK library in 1986):

http://www.professionalcarsociety.or...ead.php?t=4201

compedgemarine

my problem with this letter is 1: anyone in the military who would request info from the company that built the car would have addressed it to the person and company not just one individual and 2: why would they even need any info on the car other than the military designation, the ambulance had nothing at all to do with the assasination and was used after Kennedy was declared DOA.

oldspackrat

In the picture of the side of the ambulance not in the crusher yet, you can see what looks like a '71-'72 A body wagon on the other side of it, maybe a Vista? or a Buick or Pontiac, or maybe even Chevy? I don't see the Vista upper side wondows, & the hood does not have the '70 hood tooth, so I'm just guessing, but the rear side window looks like the vista ones to me. I'm sure it got crushed too.

compedgemarine

here is the Barrett Jackson "official" statement on the car as of today

“The sale of this vehicle has received media attention from around the world. It has also generated considerable dialogue among and interest from Kennedy historians and even enthusiasts dedicated to the preservation and study of historical ambulances.
As you know, we work diligently to verify to the best of our ability the representations of consignors on every vehicle we offer for sale. In the case of this vehicle, we applied a heightened level of scrutiny because of its historical significance.
The tragic events of November 1963 surrounding the assassination of President John F. Kennedy are some of the most significant in our nation’s history. We are respectful of this fact and are presenting this car for sale with that in mind.
There has been a great deal of discussion about the history of this car at the auction site, in the media, and on various discussion boards on the Internet. Some of that discussion has been very useful in helping both us and the consignor clarify the description of the car. For example, there has been conflicting information about whether the ambulance took the President’s casket and family members from Andrews Air Force Base to Bethesda Naval Hospital and then to the U.S. Capitol building or to the White House. Different versions of these events were even recorded in multiple Associated Press stories in November 1963.
As an auction company, we do not hold ourselves out to be historians, and certainly not experts in the particular history surrounding the unfortunate events of November 1963. There are many people who have dedicated their professional lives to studying the events of this period, and even in that context there remains a great deal of disagreement about many key facts.
As with many other facts related to this topic, the particular details surrounding the history of this ambulance will remain shrouded in mystery for years to come.
For example, there are credible reports that indicate there were two 1963 Pontiac Bonneville ambulances involved in the events of the night of Nov. 23, 1963, with one actually carrying President Kennedy’s casket and family members and the other acting as a diversion.
There is documentation—available for you to review here today—that directly ties the Naval Registration number of the vehicle used to transport President Kennedy’s remains to the physical identification numbers that are stamped in multiple places on the vehicle consigned to our auction.
There are also credible reports—and even photos—that suggest a 1963 Pontiac Bonneville ambulance involved in the situation was ordered to be destroyed in the mid-1980s. Some believe this was the original “JFK Ambulance” while others believe there is not enough proof to link the particular vehicle that was crushed with the one that actually carried the President’s casket.
Since this vehicle was consigned to our auction, we have fielded dozens of inquiries from around the country and reviewed countless documents submitted by interested parties, including our consignor.
Despite all our diligence on this issue, we are unable to either confirm or refute with certainty whether the vehicle offered for sale at auction tomorrow was in fact the vehicle that transported President Kennedy’s casket and his family members. Based on all research and our conversations with experts around the country, we do not believe there is a person alive who can answer this question with certainty.
What we can tell you today is that Barrett-Jackson’s team has physically examined this particular vehicle in great detail. We have confirmed that the historical documentation provided by the consignor matches the results of our physical inspection. For example, we were able to locate and confirm that the engine block does have an engine serial number matching the VIN. We have examined each location of tags and stampings on the vehicle and have compared our findings to the consignor’s documentation. We even located the “hidden VIN” on the vehicle chassis, and confirmed it matched the documentation as well.
These various physical inspections have been performed not just by Barrett-Jackson’s own collector car experts, but also by third-party automotive experts and even members of federal law enforcement.
There will always be a great deal of discussion and speculation around this vehicle and the events surrounding this important time in our nation’s history. We will offer the vehicle for sale tomorrow and invite interested parties to bid with all of this in mind, and based on their own research and examination of the car.”

MDchanic

Am I way off here, or is the typeface on that letter a "modified" typeface from the '70's, which would not have been on a typewriter in the '60's?

- Eric

compedgemarine

not only that but why is the Surgeon General investigating anything? I would assume that the FBI would be asking for any info or NCIS would handle anything involving the Navy

kpl70sx

...just out of curiosity regarding the 1988 letter from the U.S. Navy in response to inquiry from Dan Brintlinger: Why is it addressed to "Mr. Michel" and not to "Congressman Michel"? Maybe this is just an ****, nit-pick observation, but wouldn't a letter from a Commander in the U.S. Navy to a sitting U.S. Congressman adhere to a more formal protocol? Just a thought.

compedgemarine

the whole BJ auction group is a little sleazy IMO. if you watch the auctions closely you will pick up on several questionable actions. I know several who have been there and all said they would never do bisness with them again. I have little doubt that they will push this through as they care little about the cars or customers and only about the money they are making.

Red Delta

My mom was four years old on that day.

Here's me after a few rounds, making an **** out of myself in Dallas a couple years ago....

yammiman

.....who else would wear red shorts that are that short.....

DAVID HASSELHOFF?.....

ent72olds

Hey Red Delta, the w-30 you use in your sig from DEMOLITION MAN sold last night....I think it fetched in the 70k range....looked like a very nice car, originally from the GM Heritage Collection...

Col Wickham

"X" marks the pisshead!