jon69olds

What if we took the best GM had to offer in 1970 to build an over the top OLDS? I was thinking a '70 442 W-30 4 speed bench seat no radio or heater steel wheels with dog dish hubcaps battery in the trunk no power steering or brakes with Buick Stage 1 or 2 heads on the 455. Is this possible or are the blocks too different for it to work? I think if it would work it could make a already potent car just plain nasty. I was thinking also of a GSX spoiler on the trunk with a slightly GSX style paint job, but modified somewhat for the 442. Somewhere between a Ralleye 350 and a GSX. Call it a 442 W-30 Stage 1 or 2 or Phase 1 or 2? What do you guys think? Plausible?
Jon

Octania

Engine parts will not interchange like that
Might as well use the hemi 455 right?

jon69olds

Ok. I thought they might not, but wasn't sure. What about using whatever secrets the Buick heads hold and use them on Olds heads? Ideas? Or I suppose you could swap the whole Buick 455 for the Olds 455, but that is probably a little sacreligous.

chadman

Rocket331

I was thinking more along the lines of a 67 98 Holiday Coupe with a stock 375 hp 425 mated to the standard 3.23 anti-spin through a THM700R4 and riding on some nice 17 inch wheels with touring rubber. Add 4-wheel discs and F41-like suspension, fill it with power steering, brakes, AC, stereo, power windows, locks, etc., black leather trimmed 6-way power Strato-flight bucket bench seat and wrap it in a sparkling Burgundy Firemist paint job.

I guess not everyone's idea of Ultimate is the same.

Run to Rund

Just get a 1966 W30 and be done with it! It could be ordered just the way you want, cheap and light F85, no radio or heater, bench seats. If you want to sin, put ported Edelbrock heads on it.

coppercutlass

I seem to be captivated by the whole stocker scene from the late 60's. I would love a 68 f85 or 69 , 70 built to how they used to be ran in the stock classes. I still think a lot of those specs are kept secretive.

jon69olds

Ok. Maybe Ultimate wasn't the right word. I was trying to think of an almost factory Hot Rod that was even more potent than the W-30. I'm not sure a Stage 1 or 2 Buick 455 GS or GSX is more potent than a W-30 heck they may be pretty even. Just kind of thinking outside the box along the lines of a hopped up Ralleye 350 or a even hotter W-30 you know the next step what if the factory did it type deal. I don't know was the W-30 the top dog in GM's lineup in 1970 or was the LS6 Chevelle? Anyone? How much bashing am I going to get?

455man

The bench seat is heavier than buckets so might as well get the buckets. A 1970 Hurst/Olds would have been fun.

joe_padavano

Don't bet on it, especially when you add in the additional seat tracks, brackets, console, etc.

Like this?



Or maybe this?

Ancient Iron

Why would you put a Buick Motor in an Olds???????? Unless you like lousey oil pressure..........

redoldsman

I am just going off my memory but I think the Buick Stage 1 was the Top Dog in 1970. I know I will get killed for saying that but that is what I seem to remember.

Olds_71_442

I'm just the opposite. I prefer power brakes, AC, power windows, fancy paint job, aluminum wheels. I like all the bells and whistles. I like a cruiser that looks nice. Sleeper cars do nothing for me.

w-30dreamin

Nothing wrong with Buicks (I'm a BOP person) but you might as well just buy the Buick instead of trying to make an Olds more like a Buick.

Yes, a bench seat is lighter than a set of buckets.

jon69olds

Ok. This created a little more controversy than I anticipated. All opinions aside which GM car from 1970 was the top dog? W-30, GSX, LS-6, Judge??? I know we all prefer the W-30 because we are diehard Olds people, but in all reality was it the top dog? Does anyone know? Did Hot Rod or Car Craft ever drag race them against each other back in the day? If GM had made a Ralleye 455 same as the Ralleye 350 just with a 455 would it have been more potent than the W-30 or would it have been the same car with a fancy paint job?

chadman

First off let me say that I am an Olds man through and through but have a secondary appreciation for Buicks and Pontiacs. To my knowledge and according to many accounts I have read the Buick GS Stage 1 was the fastest GM A body in '70. I also feel it is the best looking of the '70 GM A bodies. Now the 68-69 GS's not so much. I would still take the '70 W-30 though because after all I am an Olds guy.

redoldsman

About 20 years ago, I read and article in I think it was Muscle Car Review with a match between a Hemi and a 70 GS Stage 1. The Buick won. Both cars were supposedly factory stock but who knows. It is interesting that the stodgy Buick division put out some of the fastest production cars with the Stage 1 and the Grand Nationals.

w-30dreamin

I agree,I also remember reading that the Buick held the fastest quarter mile time for 1970.

I'll add,going on looks alone I prefer the looks of the Oldsmobile.

In speculation,if Oldsmobile would have produced a 1970 Rallye 455,I doubt it would have been more potent than a W-30. The Rallye 350 was an appearance option,a way for younger people to get a performance look without having to pay higher insurance premiums because of the horsepower that goes with a performance car.
The rallye 350 did not come with the W-31 engine so Oldsmobile probably would not have put a W-30 engine in a Rallye 455. It was all about appearance.

A side note I find interesting about the Rallye's,I remember reading these cars did not sell well,dealers were changing out the yellow bumpers with chrome bumpers in an attempt to help them sell.I guess the public did not care for the yellow bumpers.
Personally I like the yellow bumpers,I've seen a pic of a Rallye with chrome bumpers and did not care for it.

Rickman48

If you go back to the '70's, you find Chevrolet underrated their HP ratings just by advertising them at lower RPM's.
LS-6 was 450 HP @6500RPM, when twisted to 7500, HP went to 550!
Little 302 was rated at 290 @ 6000 when at 7500 it cranked 375.
LT-1 [350/350] was around 425 when twisted higher, too
These were according to the magazines, at the time.

redoldsman

I think pretty much all the manufactures did that.

chadman

Gotta call BS on this.

joe_padavano

Is no one here old enough to remember the Buick Stage 1 vs. Hemi rivalry instigated by the original Car Review (later Musclecar Review) magazine?

redoldsman

I think that is the same article I was referring to in my second post. I am old enough to remember everything. It is just a matter if my memory works or not.

w-30dreamin

I'm not old enough,I've only been reading MCR for I'm guessing about 7 years or so.
I would love to hear the details if you care to share.

thank you

bccan

http://www.musclecardrive.com/articl...uscle-cars.php

IMO the HP ratings were fairly accurate & not as "under rated" as people want to believe. The e.t.'s & mph on the list are the fastest I have seen for any of these cars. Most of the tests I have seen put most of the cars in 14 sec/ 98 mph range give or take 1 second and a few mph. I also believe the above tests probably were run on slicks, don't know about tuning.

With the variables of component combos, SAE Gross HP rating, tires, different mag staff drivers it's pretty tough to tell, at least for me.

I do not doubt that a well tuned heavy hitter car wearing slicks would have trouble pulling the #'s in the attached list .

joe_padavano

I guess you did, I just didn't remember it...

My memory is the second thing to go, and I can't remember the first (actually I can - my arms keep getting shorter, so I'm constantly having to get stronger reading glasses... )