jaunty75

In the June 4, 2015 issue of Old Cars Weekly, in the Q & A section, the answer to a question caught my eye.

The questioner has a '69 Chevy Impala, and he wanted to know how many were made like his car. He provides options, the VIN, and all the codes on the cowl tag. The guy answering the question goes down the list, decoding his VIN and the cowl tag data. When he gets to the date code, which in this case is 07C, he says this:

"The number 07C is a date code, which corresponds to the third week of July 1969. This is the date for the completion of the body, not the car's final assembly and delivery off the line."

That second sentence caught my eye as I've always assumed, and I think many others have, too, that this date is the "assembly date," whatever that means, but we've taken it to more or less mean the date the car was built (completed). But this is apparently not the case. Certainly the body was assembled to the chassis shortly after it was completed, but perhaps it was more than a day or two from time to time. Maybe a week or more on occasion?

I guess the bottom line is that, assuming this answer is correct, and I assume this guy knows what he is talking about, we don't really have a way of determining the date the car came off the line as the body cowl tag date code, long though (at least by me) to indicate this, actually indicates something else. I know this is a Chevy and we all talk about Oldsmobiles, but Fisher Body is Fisher Body, and I assume they would have used the same dating system for all of the bodies they supplied.

I know that, as far as the problems facing mankind go, this is minor one, but I did think it interesting, as I noted, to find a long-held belief turn out not be true.

TK-65

The date on the cowl tag is the time it was stamped into the cowl tag. Thats really all you can say for certain. The tag was then riveted to the car. Probably shortly there after. It was used to signify when the build was started at Fisher. Never when it was completed at the assemblt plant. People use it to say when the car was "built" but thats not really what it means.

Octania

More of an approximation or "certainly not earlier than this" for a final assembly date.

I believe the build sheet / broadcast card has THE assembly date on it. Job # also, which is commonly grease penciled here and there on the car.

slantflat

My 70 Vista Cruiser has 12D stamped on the cowl tag and 01/70 on the blue sticker on the door. The date on the broadcast card is 1-5-70. So it would appear that the man in the article is correct.


I like TK's answer. It's the date the cowl tag was made.

jaunty75

An issue here, though, is that neither the broadcast card nor the build sheet were included with the package of documents that went with the car when it was sold. They're items that some cars might have come with and others not, and getting them on a car that actually did have them taped to the top of the gas tank or wherever meant that the casual car owner wouldn't necessarily have them. No one with a Lansing-built car would have a build sheet.

So there is nothing on every car made that is easy to find and that would indicate the build date and that would be visible to anyone doing a visual inspection of the car. I guess that's my point. I thought the cowl tag did this, but it doesn't.

Paladin31

Just an additional bit of evidence, my 70 442 cowl tag shows 08B, the broadcast card 08/18, and the letter I received from the Heritage Center inn '03 or 04 stated 2nd week of August '69.

Brett

hurst68olds

I look at the cowl tag stamping date as an "In-Process" date, a point in time when the body was being built at Fisher Body. The fact that it is a "week" introduces doubt that knowing a single "build date" is not reality.

Some Fisher Body plants were part of a assembly plant complex, some were remote requiring shipping/transportation.

It's been claimed/stated that the average/typical car (at Lansing) took 4 (8-hour) shifts for a complete build of a car. Is this accurate for a car from start of body build to finished car?

the above mentioned '70 Vista:
cowl tag 12D (December 4th week) - Monday 12/22/69 to Sunday 12/28/69
broadcast card date Monday 1/5/70 (January 1st week)
Does anyone know the UAW Christmas week/New Year's week holiday schedule?

Koda

Tk is correct, it is when the tag was stamped.

I work for a modern car company, and, while they don't have a separate Fisher style body plant method, perhaps this could help. Your frames are typically made elsewhere, our body on frame cars are Dana Corp frames that come painted. So, let's look at the body. The rolls of steel come into the plant usually one shift before they get blanked, which is cut into flat pieces like a cookie cutter. Another shift goes by and they get stamped, and stored in panel stores.

Depending on the load and their buffer, a particular panel on a particular pallet spends a shift or two in panel stores, then goes to the weld line. I have worked little in weld, but I know it takes 2 shifts to get through the shop. We don't do a cowl tag, but if we were, it would be attached about a third of the way through, probably on the process that picked up a completed firewall from a rack, and moved it to the jig to weld it to the floor. You would probably put that on a prep stand, stamp a tag, and rivet it on. So, say half way through weld.

You normally get to paint in a couple hours, two shifts in paint, then a shift in the buffer queue. Two shifts in assembly, then you're out the door and driving to the marshalling yard.

That being said, I would say it takes a car a week to be made in our plants, as in five days of two shifts each. The cowl tag, if we had one, would go on halfway through. GM had to convey from Fisher to Final Assembly, but I would think the times would be similar, because they built very fast.

BlackGold

I agree with TK as well: the Fisher Body dates had nothing to do with the final assembly date at Olds. However, with a build rate of about 100 cars per hour in Lansing (and two shifts per day), you can imagine that Fisher Body couldn't get too far ahead of Olds final assembly without someone running out of space.

I'm not sure when the two Fisher Body dates were assigned. My '70 W-30 has a date code of 10D on its cowl tag and a date of 10-21 on its broadcast card. Does that mean the broadcast card was created before Fisher started the build (likely), maybe even days before? And does that mean the cowl tag was created and installed at the end of the build? Of course, 10-21 could fall smack dab in the middle of week 10D, depending on when week 10A started. So maybe both the broadcast card and cowl tag were created at the same time.

If you want to speculate about the dates, it's worth a reminder that the first week of October didn't necessarily start on the first day of October. Same for other months. Most manufacturers divide up the year into 52 production weeks. Out of necessity, some weeks contain the last days of one month and the first days of the next month. So October 1 may fall into the fifth week of September, or September 30 may fall into the first week of October, depending on how a particular manufacturer does it.

TK-65

The question is when did the body get the cowl tag? Was some portion of the body completed before the tag was placed? That would mean the body was started before the actual date on the tag. Ive read that the VIN was applied to the body once it was complete and staged at body bank. This photo clearly shows something in the area of where the cowl tag would go. The tag appears to be already in place before the body is complete.

Dave Siltman

Good picture Jasen. I can't tell for sure if that is a metal tag or a paper note, but obviously there is SOMETHING there. And, the body is certainly not a complete unit. Notice the car in front of the "cowl tag car" has the holes punched for the moldings; there HAS to be something for the welders to read so they know FOR CERTAIN what trim level each specific car will ultimately have. Jasen, is the "tag" section "photo enhanced" in any way? I ask because of the black area behind the "tag". Do you have any other firewall pictures of the cars coming down the line?
Wow!!! (by the way), you have some very cool '65 related stuff!!! Where do you find it all?

F-85 4-4-2

Cool assembly line photo. Helps to have a post car in the foreground!

Charlie Jones

Here's another thing to consider. Strikes and other forced shutdowns .
It's entirely possible for a car to have been finally assembled several months after the date on the Fisher Body tag.

rcorrigan5

Since we are talking dates, I can add a little to demonstrate that the date on the body tag is not the finish build date of my '68 4-4-2.


The body tag says 04A, or the first week of April 1968. Keep in mind, this car has been in my family since it was new so I know the parts I'm addressing here are original to the car. The steering box is dated "92', or April 1, 1968, and the steering box cover is dated "95", or April 4, 1968, both dates of which also fall in the first week of April 1968. It would be a rather incredible turnaround if those parts were on the car by Friday, April 5, 1968. I guess it's possible, but I highly suspect it is not probable.


I don't have a build sheet or a broadcast card for my car (Lansing car), but I do know that the "Application for Certificate of Title" for Oregon was submitted on April 10, 1968, received by DMV on April 15, 1968, and the passenger car registration was issued on April 29, 1968. It was a Portland Zone Office manager car for its first 3 months in existence. I'm wondering if the zone office could get a leg up on the title and registration process by simply obtaining the VIN from the assembly plant, without the car actually being present.


Anyway, I'm a believer that the "build date" on the cowl tag is not the finish build date of the car.


Randy C.

Run to Rund

The cowl tag is a Fisher body component, and thus independent of the final car assembly process. The codes on the tag do show body related features, including tinted glass, deluxe seat belts, carpet, heater delete, trim (such as V meaning 442 emblems etc.), and floor shift 4 speed. Now since the firewall and floor pan are a single unit, it is possible that the tag is attached to that unit and then the tag is used as an assembly guide telling the workers which quarter panels, glass, etc. to attach to that firewall/floor pan.

Koda

Like I said above, it is probably placed on the cowl right before it gets welded into the body. This is done so that you can rivet against something, which is typically called a jig or a prep table. Sometimes I wonder if I'm typing in Greek on here.

VIN tags, now and then, have to be attached once the car gets in order because the back half of the tag is a sequence. I have heard Fisher built to a buffer, so once they were selected in order for Final Assembly, the VIN was probably put on on one of the very first processes.

TK-65

Im going to say that is black paint. Fisher may have painted that bare spot on the cowl first before applying the cowl tag so paint would be behind it. That photo is of the Fremont plant and Fremont at that point did not paint their cowl tags. They were left bare metal. You can see in this photo a piece of cardboard covering it as the car gets painted.

1970cs

Here is an example of what I have.1970 Lansing built car: 06B tag, broadcast card has 6-10 and POP card show 6-18-70

This car still had to be shipped from Lansing to Indianapolis.


Pat

Allan R

1. The Fisher cowl tag is not related to the VIN and was installed long before the VIN tag was.

Fisher had to build the bodies and do interior work prior to shipping the bodies (sans front clip) to the final assembly line. It's always been my understanding that the Fisher tag was the week that the car body was cobbled together. I also understood this could be a 3-5 day process depending on what type of car was involved and how many shifts were run at the plants.

2. VIN tag is a product of the final assembly line where the front clip, chassis and final assembly was done.

Some build sheets I've seen there are references that relate the build sheet to Fisher production, but the actual build sheet is a final production line item afaik. I have never seen a master broadcast card (if there was one) from FBW, but have seen multiple smaller broadcast cards with info about various options to be installed. I've always wondered how FBW was able to determine whether the interior for (eg: CS HT) would be naugahyde or combination cloth naugahyde. There had to be a master code for that but I've never seen it except on the Trim component of the cowl tag.

I am lucky enough to know the actual finish date/shipping date of my car and compared it to the Fisher broadcast card and cowl tag date code on the body. Lansing production: Fisher time build code 04A, Broadcast card: April 7, 1972 (Wednesday) Completion/Shipping April 10, 1972 (Saturday). Last item courtesy of GM Heritage Documentation - G. Zapora for this specific car.

jaunty75

Who said it was?

joe_padavano

The letter from the Heritage Center is meaningless. All they did was translate the "08B" on the cowl tag to "2nd week of August 1969". The fact that the cowl tag was stamped and likely installed on the body before the VIN was assigned corroborates the original story.

Allan R

Just a point of clarification as it seems you were under the wrong impression about the cowl tag too.

Joe, the letter I have from the Heritage Center is not meaningless. If the car Brett has was built for Canadian market or originally sold in the Canadian market the letter is almost as good as an original window sticker for the car.

Why wouldn't you think the FBW cowl tag would be assigned and riveted before the VIN? Of course it was. The final assembly plants wouldn't have the VIN sequence on the build sheet till after the body was shipped and received at the final assembly plant.