starr88

hey guys need to know some opinions on these cars. first a 64 jetstar 1 nice car runs sweet dove it up and down the road will send you spinning side ways when you step on the gas . but cant seem to get any body interested in buying it . what do you guys think .asking $2500 for it is this too much money for a rare classic olds truely the first 442 of its year . no rust clean second owner . i know that sounds like a bunch of salesmen crap but true . just looking for a true old olds guy that appreciates these old beautiful full size lady. so is it true the guys that use to appreciate these cars are a dying breed!

70cutty

Damn dude.......you are good. After I read that I started thinking about where can I park this thing and how much would shipping be.

Unfortunately no room and I really wanna keep this wife for a little while longer, but very nicely written.

starr88

Are you sure cool old olds crotchety old woman thats a toss up.

70cutty

Lol.

jaunty75

I think part of your problem, at least, is that these cars are largely unknown, even in the Olds hobby. The Jetstar I, which was basically the poor man's version of the much-better-known Starfire, was made for only two model years, '64 and '65. Its cousin, the Jetstar 88, was definitely a poor man's 88 back in the day as it was introduced specifically to give Olds dealers something more to offer someone who was otherwise more likely to go with something from the "low-priced three" (Chevy, Ford, Plymouth). It was a way for someone to get into a full-size Olds at as low a price as possible.

But in order for this to happen, compromises were made. The Jetstar 88 shares nothing in the way of engine and drivetrain components with the other 88 models in whatever year it was offered (the J 88 was offered through '66). That tends to make Jetstar 88s, especially the '64s, difficult to restore as they use many one-year-only or Jetstar-only parts.

How much did the "poor man's Olds" reputation of the Jetstar 88 rub off on the Jetstar I? Hard to say, but it would be surprising if none did. Restoration of a Jetstar I would be easier, though, than doing a J 88 as the Jetstar I does share more parts with the other full-size Olds's of the same model year.

Things started off well for the Jetstar I as production totaled 16,084. Production of the '64 Starfire totaled 13,753 coupes and 2,410 convertibles (the Jetstar I was offered only as a two-door coupe), so total Starfire was about the same as the Jetstar I. By '65, though, things fell off drastically for the J I, with 6,552 made, which was not much more than one-third of '64 production, while total Starfire production remained about the same with 13,024 coupes and 2,236 convertibles. It's no surprise that the Jetstar I was discontinued after '65, although with the advent of the Toronado for '66, I think Olds wanted attention focused there, and having too many other "personal sports cars" in showrooms (imagine walking into your dealer's showroom in October 1995 and seeing a '66 Jetstar I alongside a '66 Starfire alongside a '66 Toronado--what IS a buyer to do?) would have taken attention away from the all-new, front-drive Toronado. Even the Starfire, a storied name used by Olds since the '50s, went away after 1966.

So there are not many Jetstar I's around, especially the '65s, and no one who sees one at your local car show or cruise-in is likely to have heard of the Jetstar I, let alone ever seen one. All of this works against desirability and collectibility, in my opinion.

Advertise it long enough, and I think someone will ultimately buy it. But I think your "are they dying off" comment is not far off the mark, either. As each year goes by, these '50s and '60s to early '70s Oldsmobiles, which seem to be the heart of the old Oldsmobile hobby, get another year older and another year further in the past. Anyone old enough to remember these cars when they were new are now easily into their 50s and 60s and older, and they're not being replaced in the same numbers by younger people coming along. Younger folks are naturally often more interested in cars from their youth, so we're seeing more interest in the late '70s and '80s cars.

So there it is. Demographics at work.

Kennybill

Well, the guys (cough-cough) that like these older "big girls" are dying off. The 1964 was the last year for the 394, a great engine but not as in demand as the 1965 with the 425 engine. It's a money pit. It would cost more than redoing a Cutlass and the final resale price done would be even/less. I would take lots of pictures, tell all the "flaws" and put them on ebay. Somebody that likes/restoring this year will buy. You could put a low reserve so you don't lose your a**. JMO, Ken

Koda

I had a big post typed up, but flaky connection ate it.

I think big cars and 4 doors get much less attention than muscle cars.
I think that 60s and 72 and earlier cars will last much longer than we think in terms
of popularity due to the 73 and later changes of smaller, less powerful engines, and the drastic changes in aesthetics which many people do not like in the 73-90s cars.

Once the 90s cars (cars with equal to or more performance than the @1970 cars) get collectible, I think we'll go back to the normalized trend of the popularity dying off as the people do.

StarGeneral

Yeah, these cars aren't too popular or even heard of among normal "car guys". To put it into perspective on just how little interest the common man has in these cars, I bought my 1965 Delta 88 2D for $2,500 on craigslist, it had a fresh 455, a fresh primer painjob, needs almost no body work, and minimal rust. It had been converted to disc brakes on the front and was in fairly good condition inside for the year.

During everyday driving I have only run into 2 people who knew about Delta 88's, and both of them owned one during the mid seventies. Everyone else says nice chevelle or impala and I hang my head in exhasperation....doesn't even look like a chevelle...

Although it is very hard to find parts for these cars, if you can find one in good shape, usually it takes very little money to get ahold of a car and get started!

oldcutlass

It really boils down to bang for your buck. The big girls do not carry the interest as the smaller nimble A bodies. Not much on the aftermarket for parts support, so they are extremely hard to find and very expensive to restore. Given the choice most go with an A body.

442craig

Well, how about changing your audience? Look on Craig's List or equvilant, find some aftermarket rims and tires cheap, break out the flat black primer and make it "cool" to the next generation! It anit going to win any points with the "old" crowd but they are dying off anyways, right?

Craig

StarGeneral

Hey, at least us young guys are helping to keep these cars on the road where they belong, even if we're rocking a primer black paint job for now

But seriously, if you're not trying to go 100 percent original, keep the nice original parts original, and go restomod with the rest. Some of these parts will be impossible to find but you can improvise...I sure have.

navvet

Funny thing.. I go to a bunch of car shows (in state and out) Sometimes w/o my 64 88. I am amazed how few 64 88, 98 starfire and jetstars I see. You would think that these classics would turn more heads or have more interest when they do show up. When I do take my car to shows I am usually the only one of its kind and many people ask about it. being a 4 door doeas take away a bit but the style and engine can't be beat.
It is also true every year I see less and less of the younger crowd. And when I do see a young kid with his car..no matter the year, type or condition I always make a point of talking to them and supporting thier interest. I just wish we could reach out more to the younger kids and show them how much fun car resto and ownership is.

redoldsman

To me, these are some of the kind of cars that stand out at car shows. I remember about 12 year ago when I went to Good Guys the first time. There were so many 40 Fords (one of my favorite cars) and tri-five Chevys that you could not look at all them. As I walked along I spotted a 66 Toronado. I went over and looked at it and what a car. It was very well done with lots of subtle changes. It caught my eye because it was something different. The guy that did the paint and body word was there with the owner. I actually hired him to do my 54. I think this car painted red with a nice set of wheels and tires would look awesome. If I didn't already have two cars or had a place to store another car, I would seriously consider this one. It is not a 62 Starfire which is one of my bucket list cars but it is close.

ent72olds

I also believe that these type cars are a dime a dozen, the closer you get to the west coast. They don't exist here on the east coast. So, as others have said, shipping cost of a non running vehicle is a deal breaker.....I know I would by the wagon at $1500....add $1800 and the hassle of shipping and the whole sight unseen thing, it would just be financially irresponsible for the average guy who doesn't have expendable income....

Kennybill

realoldsman, "It is not a 62 Starfire which is one of my bucket list cars but it is close." There you go, most of us guys that are interested in these cars have bucket lists. I'm into the "big" cars because their different, everybody has A-bodies, even I have one. I see very few guys under 30 into cars anymore. Most young guys can't afford an aka "muscle car" that's hardly driven. Guy's like StarGeneral (even though not a "real" muscle car) are the exception. Younger guy, got into the hobby cheap and having fun. Hopefully more "older" guys will help/encourage younger guys at the car shows. Jmo, Ken

navvet

Anything we can do to pull kids away from the boob tube and video games would be great. The last car show I went to I invited a 16 year old from the neighborhood. ....It was the first one he had ever been to. I remember as a kid there was always a huge Car and hot rod show at the local exhibit hall every feb. I remember going to see the Bat mobile, the monkey mobile, the car Bonnie and Clyde were killed in and the winner of the daytona or Indy 500. Shows like that realy hooked us as kids.
I think if the younger crowd knew how much easier it is to tune a 64 olds then to change a headlight on todays car they may get hooked

oldcutlass

I bought this car as a father and son project for his first car. Sorry to say it did not work out. Driving was not a big deal for him or a lot of his friends for that matter. At first I was a bit disappointed but it is what it is. Times are different I guess for kids and cars.


I sold cars for many years and kids just are not interested in muscle cars like we were/ are...

MDchanic

Yeah, same here. I spent a couple of years showing him cool old cars in the local WantAd paper ('68 429 T-Bird with low miles for $1,200, etc.), but he had absolutely no interest, so I read the writing on the wall and picked him up a Cherokee when it fell into my lap super cheap. I had to literally force him to help me fix it up, but he did, and now he's quite happy driving it around.

At one point, I got "involved" with the stereo, and after several hours crawling around on the floor, with all the interior panels pulled off, I came in and told him proudly that I had figured out why the stereo wasn't working (there were four separate problems), and it would be cheap and easy to fix. His (typically mumbled) response:
"Doesn't matter. Prob'ly won't turn it on anyway."
WHAT?!?
When I was a kid having the stereo working was more important than having the engine working.

He doesn't use drugs or drink either.

Kids today...

- Eric

starfire

If I had the room I would love to have that car, but I wouldn't give you a dollar over $1500 for it. Way too hard to find parts and that interior would be very expensive to redo. Everything would have to be custom made. Good luck with the sale, but I think it is overpriced.

66400

Sadly that T Bird 429 could use a gallon of gas to travel just 10 miles which would kill a lot of enjoyment of aimless cruising.

Henry

MDchanic

Sounds like a lot of 455 Oldsmobiles...

- Eric

oldcutlass

Aimless cruising, my kid uses his car to go to and from school every 2 weeks. It sits in his dorm parking lot in between. I'm telling you if I didn't see him pop out from my wife I'd swear he wasn't mine.


The mothers curse has stopped with me. You know the one where your mother wishes you have a child just like you. Not saying that's a bad thing, but come on, he's never gotten into any trouble.

StarGeneral

The problem with us young guys/gals and the car hobby nowadays is that most of us don't have family members who work on/own old cars, so there is noone to pass down the skills and knowledge...the car hobby is kind of a like another world that we don't really get exposed to. I was fortunate enough to spend time around my mom's 65 Cutlass as a child, and I was fascinated by the car. I also had a urge to take things apart as a child so that interest was kind of fueled by my personality.

As has been said, there are lots of young guys that would love to work on an old car, for many of my peers, it's a life goal to restore a classic car of our own. My friend and I have been browsing online ads and street corners for the perfect project since about middle school, but most of us lack the resources to accomplish this without help from a family member. My case is special because I took a huge risk and made some sacrifices by purchasing my Delta to aquire it at an early age. For most of us this is not financially responsible with the high cost of living and student loans and such....

jaunty75

Excellent points, all, especially about student loans. It was a far different world in the '50s and '60s, where a guy with a high school diploma could look forward to a factory job in autos or steel or rubber and make a good, middle-class living. College was not necessary as an entrance to the middle class, and student loans were unheard of.

Today, the economy is much different, a high school diploma alone doesn't so easily get you into the middle class, and cars are far, far different in terms of their technology, cost, and ease and even need of working on them.

Remember, in the '60s, auto maintenance routinely required, in addition to frequent oil changes, which is still true today, once-yearly spark plug changes and tune-ups and once-every-other-year coolant changes. Nowadays, with modern cars, you change spark plugs every 100,000 miles and coolant every 150,000. Many people who buy a new car every few years never keep their car long enough to require either a tune-up or coolant change.

So these 1960s-era maintenance chores, which could often be done at home by most any shade-tree mechanic and which would be a way for the sons to get introduced by their fathers to car maintenance, are gone now. "Working on cars" just isn't something that kids do anymore and haven't for a couple of decades at least.

oldcutlass

It's tuff to say on why kids don't really get involved in our hobby. I know my kid was exposed to all the above maintenance tasks Jaunty. I also took him with me to purchase cars, and he was exposed to umpteen car shows growing up and we collected a closet full of trophies. He fully understood the cool factor and trials/tribulations of car ownership. He just didn't want to participate as he got older. Some of his friends would have given a right ******** to be able to own and have a project that they and their dad could build together. Even my friends wondered why I tried so hard to get him into the Cutlass. My son really wanted no part in it. Eventually I realized that I was not going to build the car and just hand him the keys, I was determined to get him to put his own sweat and invest a small amount of cash into it. Anyway later frustrated, I transferred his cash into a later model Mustang and sent him on his way in it. It turned out to be the better decision rather than constantly twisting his arm to go out in the garage to work on the Cutlass.

70cutty

I am trying to do the same thing. My boys are young 4 and 8, I am trying to expose them as much as I can. I am 36 and I have been fortunate to be able to acquire a small collection of late 60s cars(cutlass is the youngest) and I really try hard to have them involved in the cars hoping that one day we could restore at least one together. I have been taking them to the car shows since they were born and they love our Sunday cruises or when I pull up in front of the school to pick them up. I can only hope that the cool factor remains. Maybe it's wishful thinking, I don't know. All I can do I hope that when they get older they will want one.

Oldsmaniac

My 67 post car was to be a father and son project. We drove out to Minnesota from NJ to haul it home. I was hoping there would be a spark to start a fire but there was not and it turned out to be my project with his participation and interest at 0 %. Now that it is done he has not shown an interest to drive or even ride in it. Yeah I got him a used 05 Mustang V6 and stick. Yeah I forced the stick on him as well as he wanted an automatic. He now loves the manual trans perhaps someday his eyes will open to the classics.

MDchanic

Sounds like my summer.

I spent so much time forcing the kid to turn a wrench one flat at a time that I barely got anything else done.

I think I've learned my lesson, though. The kid doesn't like working on cars. I can move on now.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Well, I'm glad that it's just not me, I feel for you guys and also feel better about my own situation. Maybe some day he'll get a hankering to mess with cars as he ges older of I'm still alive and able. I've long ago given up, I put both the cars up for sale and figured the one that did not sell I would continue to toy with, the Plymouth drew the short straw and has been gone for some time now. I do miss her every now and then, but hey I still got you guys! Unfortunately your also stuck with me.

MDchanic

When I've done this, he's literally ducked down and hidden so his friends couldn't see him.

It's just not what they're into these days.

- Eric

brown7373

The vast majority of people in the old car hobby own cars that either they had when they were young, or they were cars they lusted after. Kids today, remember Hondas and Toyotas, not 60s Oldsmobiles of any model. I appreciate Model A Fords, but I can't say I want one. Most of Model A owners today remember them from their youth. To them, 60s Oldsmobiles were just transportation.

MDchanic

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, sixties cars are just transportation (and cars past '72 are just junk), but I just like them.

I think fifties cars are mostly abominations and thirties and forties cars are old but serviceable.

That being said, there's a kid near where I work whom I ran into a couple of years ago when he was sixteen - He drives a Model A, got his first one at 14. His car is in "survivor" shape, with 1936 wheels and tires (wider), juice brakes, and 12 volt electrics, with a stereo under the dash. Other guys bring their Model As to him to fix.
I thought that was pretty cool.

- Eric

barnfind

My oldest and 2nd oldest son are this way as well, 2nd oldest now has a jeep and were both happier. He will wrench some, but doesn't posses the hands on old school knowledge I wanted to give him. He told me the other day he wished he had spent more time under the hood with me, now life has him 1500 miles away on his own. My 2nd youngest has interest and sells cars now, but likes the hondas. Im working with my youngest son and he seems to have interest. My 2 daughters like to ride in em and that's about it. All the kids, yes 6, had to learn manual trans first.
There's something very satisfying about taking the time to rebuild a car that most would turn there nose up at and say its scrap. As kids we played outside using our imaginations for our own entertainment. Seems like it has to do with generation gap computers , video games etc, its a disposable world now. JMO

Koda

My old man never bought classic cars; he simply kept cars until they became classics. We worked on them as they needed it, but it was never a drive to "work on cars." We hunted, fished, camped, whatever, and worked on the cars and SUVs that we used, but, as he said one time, we came here to hunt, not work on the Jeep.

The point is, I think too many people try to teach their sons skills and such, as opposed to building a relationship. I have my grandfather's 72 Monte Carlo. He died when I was 7. I remember a few things from him with that car. He'd pick me up from preschool in it. He brought me a bicycle in the back of it. He hit a car that stopped on the interstate with it, boxed in the front, and my grandmother spidered the windshield with her forehead. Both car and tough old lady made it another 500 miles to Florida in that condition.

Sure, my dad and I worked on it some when it was kept at Grandma's house, but it's the people who owned it that make the car special. I don't drive my dad's Corvette or his 73 van. I could; he offers. They're his cars, and he's approaching 70. I'll drive them when he's gone. I bought my Olds to work on in grad school with my friend. He likes Olds, and I now like them, too, but I bought it because of someone, and it means something to me because of those times.

My point is, it's one thing to like a brand, or a year, or a model, but, at least for me, it's the specific vehicles, and what we did with them, with people we care about, that matters. So, you may be teaching your son to adjust timing, but, if he doesn't enjoy it, he won't place any importance on it, and he won't care, whereas if you took him places and did fun things with him in the car, then he'll care about the car, and what it takes to keep it running.

I like old cars and other old stuff, a lot because of my old man, but I didn't learn a whole lot of vehicle maintenance from him; I did learn the desire to keep them running and correct though, and that has made me learn on my own, which also drove my education and career choices.

So, make him want to learn these things before you teach him. He needs to value the car before he'll value the skills. Do that by having fun with him in it.

allyolds68

Dude....Your car is pink

Diego

"Is it true these cars are part of a dying breed?"

No, it's an old collectible that doesn't have much demand. Plenty of cars are like that.

oldcutlass

I assure you Koda, he was, as probably the others kids, exposed to the fun part of owning, showing, and especially driving an old car long before we tried to get them interested in one of their own. I took an interest in cars even though my dad did everything in his power to prevent it, right down to refusing to participate in my fixing my first one up. It wasn't until later in his life did he take an interest in playing with them.


I believe the statement is correct that we yearn for the cars and things we grew up with. That the people of the 20's, 30's, and 40's cars are dying off and with them the want of ownership of those model years with them. As we age and die off so will the want and need of the 50's, 60's and 70's cars.

Allan R

I get a lot of satisfaction from my 72 Cutlass, but it's 2 fold. It keeps me closer to my Dad who passed in 78 (before his time IMO). He also instilled the pride and enjoyment of driving and cars. Don't know why, but I've ALWAYS liked the big cars better than the intermediates which is why I started buying 98's soon as I could afford them. Right now I wouldn't dream of asking my son to help on a project car because his head is elsewhere and I can respect that. Not that I haven't tried. I'm also very limited to what size car I can store inside the garage; and up here that's so important with our oddball climates.

I do yearn for the older big cars - I think they have a definite place in the hobby world, just less of us who are fans of them. I think parts availability also plays a big role in some folks project assessments.

No, I don't think appreciation of the car has anything to do with a dying breed. I think ownership does though.

barnfind

My folks discouraged me owning a car even after earning the funds and knowledge on how to keep it going. Your right Koda, it is about the relationship whether its fishing computers or ?? The point being most youth are not into this type of hobby. I can see why, would you restore a car of todays world or rebuild your first computer? Ya were dated, and yes I can text.

MDchanic

... Which makes it SO much cooler!

Kid doesn't know what he's missing.

- Eric