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That is NOT a 69 base. 69 has two round holes for dual valve cover breathers since the PCV comes out of the intake manifold directly to the carb. There's also a single drain hole in the bottom of the base in the back to drain water. An Olds service bulletin soon afterwards added extra holes since water ingestion was sort of a thing.
The inner lid looks suspect as well. All I can say is good luck for that seller. The actuator lid looks like a gennie, but I just did a cursory glance. FWIW, the tops were originally gray phosphated. Haven't been paying attention to any repros if they're making any.
Last edited by 69HO43; August 24th, 2022 at 04:32 AM.
I've been looking for one a long time, but not for 8k.
And while this one is not 100% correct, you need to understand the concept of supply and demand. These air cleaners only came on the 912 (915 if you count all three convertibles) 1969 H/Os that were made. Real ones very, very rarely come up for sale. There were repros being made for a while, but the are fiberglass, not the original metal.
And while this one is not 100% correct, you need to understand the concept of supply and demand. These air cleaners only came on the 912 (915 if you count all three convertibles) 1969 H/Os that were made. Real ones very, very rarely come up for sale. There were repros being made for a while, but the are fiberglass, not the original metal.
Isn't that a 1968 base?
I think it may be a 68 base. 69s started using the slightly bent hot air pipe that came in straight up under the air cleaner from the stove, not the 90 degree duct style that '68s had. Since it's not a dual snorkel ram air cleaner, it can't be a 68 H/O base either, but I'm not sure of exact application of the air cleaner shown in the picture. May be from a 68 Cutlass or 442?
Even with supply and demand, that's more likely to be $3K-3.5K for an actual 69 H/O topper by itself. JMO. But not sure what current street prices are because there's a lot less street action going down nowadays with 69 H/O specific parts. Way back when if you paid 800 bucks for one that was a lot of $$. You can always ask whatever you wish. Getting asking price is a completely different thing.
Here's a copy of the bulletin about drilling more holes in the 69 H/O air cleaner base. You can see on the back picture of the bulletin there are two valve cover breather vent holes (round) on the air cleaner. The one in the ebay ad is square and only one seemingly in the front? One little hole already came in the 69 base, this bulletin told dealers how and where to drill more holes. The 70-72 ram air cleaner bases came with the extra holes already punched to ensure that rain wasn't going to be a major problem going forward. Sometimes GM did learn things.
Is that the correct foam with the outer skin? I have not seen that style in any of the parts suppliers, but I have heard that is what the originals came with.
Is that the correct foam with the outer skin? I have not seen that style in any of the parts suppliers, but I have heard that is what the originals came with.
Is that the correct foam with the outer skin? I have not seen that style in any of the parts suppliers, but I have heard that is what the originals came with.
Sorta. Originals had total outer skins. From what I recall from looking at a few originals about 25 years ago at an H/O meet, the seal was totally skinned over with more of a thicker skin than the repros. Badly smushed in most cases, you could tell the originals from the repros as most repros only has the skin on the outside. I once had an original 71 ram air cleaner that had a yellowish tan looking foam with some fairly tough skin on it, but it was pretty sad shape. I replaced it with an aftermarket deal. IIRC, the skin was only on the outer surface of the foam. Much shorter than the 69, obviously.
Here's mine. Just has skin on the outer part:
This is more what I'm talking about discussing the original style:
Media car from back in the days. Note the silver outline of the grille still sporting the silver edging like the 442.
And an Olds dealer showroom picture. Kinda hard to see, but the air cleaner seal is sealed all over.
One more. How this car (that overly-restored one) still had its original seal or where they got it is anyone's guess. I'd like for someone to repro that in that way, I'd buy it in a second.
If you can find a top can section for your car, you can buy one of the repro 70-72 ram air bases and repaint it orange-red, put an OW code decal on it, and it'll pass muster. I think they still have the repro inner lids too. Just get an Oldsmobile 455 air cleaner decal for it and stick it on. I mean, unless you absolutely had to have an original air cleaner.
As others have stated, per the foam seal, to be proper the outside, top and inside are coated/skinned. Correct foam is also 1/2 to 3/4 as thick/wide, attached pic is mine, bought the foam eons ago and have not seen a comparable replacement yet.
The topper should be of a phosphate grey plating in nature and not 'black', the last pick 69HO43 posted is a pretty good example. As Joe said, someone was making a fiberglass 'ish' repop in 'black'... I'd verify that it would be metal, 8k is a bit much with an incorrect base. If you can't plate it, Seymour 'Cast Blast' spray paint is a very good substitute.
As others have stated, per the foam seal, to be proper the outside, top and inside are coated/skinned. Correct foam is also 1/2 to 3/4 as thick/wide, attached pic is mine, bought the foam eons ago and have not seen a comparable replacement yet.
The topper should be of a phosphate grey plating in nature and not 'black', the last pick 69HO43 posted is a pretty good example. As Joe said, someone was making a fiberglass 'ish' repop in 'black'... I'd verify that it would be metal, 8k is a bit much with an incorrect base. If you can't plate it, Seymour 'Cast Blast' spray paint is a very good substitute.
Excellent info! Wish you could remember where you got that foam seal. I'd try to track that down.
So I tried to be a nice guy and reached out to the seller a couple of days ago to explain what he actually has so it may help him rethink his pricing and possibly help the sale. He was an a** hat in his response, said he really does not care whether it sells or not and basically told me to f*** off.
I did a bit of digging about the air cleaner seals. OPGI (Restoparts) seems to sell the "more correct" air cleaner seals, if their product picture is accurate. Summit sells the OPGI one as well. Same picture of the skin on the sides and top, and doesn't seem as thick. Only issue is they don't have any in stock, and Summit says they should have them in stock by Oct 18th. I shot off an email to them to see what they say about it.
When I got my car, the air cleaner had been tossed. So when I did finally find one, the top was black and had been for many moons. I didn't know anything about where to send stuff to platers, etc. back then, so I just repainted it black. I might redo it in correct phosphate if OPGI has the correct style seal, but since I really don't care about going to car shows and such, I might just save some $$ and get the cast blast paint.
So I tried to be a nice guy and reached out to the seller a couple of days ago to explain what he actually has so it may help him rethink his pricing and possibly help the sale. He was an a** hat in his response, said he really does not care whether it sells or not and basically told me to f*** off.
Oh well.
Most people that think they know **** don't actually know **** and can't stand it when someone who knows **** tries to help them learn **** about the **** they're peddling. If he really didn't care if it sells, then why the hell is he posting it for sale? Sometimes stupid people remain stupid. That's because he's a sham artist, and instead of learning about what he obviously has no idea about, he's just wanting to scam the unsuspecting that has more money than brains. Most 69 H/O owners I know that need parts understand what they're looking at.
OR- he had more money than brains and paid 4K for it and thinking he could double his money by flipping it or something. And now he's mad at himself knowing he f**ked himself in the *** and takes it out on others after realizing people that actually know ain't going to buy it. Who knows? At the very least he doesn't have to act like an asshat. He should do like most reasonable people who don't want to take others' advice. Thank them for their input, tell them to have a blessed day and that be the end of it.
Excellent info! Wish you could remember where you got that foam seal. I'd try to track that down.
I know... I should dig thru my stuff and try to see, was like 20 years ago at least, ordered 2 of them, and I'm on the 2nd one...
I want to say it was one of the normal places at the time, Year One, Fusick, etc... of which I know they do not offer it any more....
Yes, OPGI version 'appears' to be as close as one can get for now. One issue I have seen with a 'close' one is that the strip is not as 'long' as it should be, making a smaller circumference. The original does fit all the way around at the edge of the 'topper'.. Being a smaller circumference you have to 'cheat it' towards the front to align with the front edge leaving space at the back, not sure the OPGI one is of that nature.
The one thing I do see that is 'off putting' it their description... These reproductions of the OAI foam seals are made to the correct size, shape and structure for all 1969-72 W25 high-performance motors.
As we know, the '69 foam was its own animal and not similar to 70-72 OAI foam.
Edit: However... I did notice the one they picture for 1970 is indeed 'different' so the '69 one offered appears to be different....
Last edited by 1969Hurst; August 25th, 2022 at 08:57 AM.
So I tried to be a nice guy and reached out to the seller a couple of days ago to explain what he actually has so it may help him rethink his pricing and possibly help the sale. He was an a** hat in his response, said he really does not care whether it sells or not and basically told me to f*** off.
Oh well.
Can we file that under "no good deed goes unpunished"
My experience has been most people listing mis-represented items on ebay know it. They seem to have gotten more emboldened now with lots of reproduction items listed as NOS (original packaging never included) and NOS items for a 4-door sedan listed as being for a 442. It's basically fraud but with no repercussions for them.
If you elect not to seek out a place to perform the zinc phosphate metal treatment, Eastwood might sell a phosphate mimicking aerosol paint. I know they have a darker color to represent manganese phosphate, a friend used it on hood hinges and I was surprised how good it looks. You may check if they have the lighter color.
Here's a 64 Impala hood latch plate painted with Eastwood's ZP paint and a factory ZP coated part next to it for comparison. A tad darker, but certainly much cheaper than the replating. I think it looks good. And definitely make sure to either spray it further out to dust it, or get a flat clear coat or something if you want a protective coat over it as you want no sheen if possible. The factory ZP coating is dull and flat.
By the way... Here appears to be a re-pop of the vacuum actuator for the '69 air cleaner top. Originally was a Ford part and originals I believe had 'FoMoCo' on them.
Vac tube connection just needs to be cut down.
You'll note the flapper plate and rod assembly offered on the site are the same too as the 69's.
By the way... Here appears to be a re-pop of the vacuum actuator for the '69 air cleaner top. Originally was a Ford part and originals I believe had 'FoMoCo' on them.
Vac tube connection just needs to be cut down.
You'll note the flapper plate and rod assembly offered on the site are the same too as the 69's.
So when you say flapper assembly, do you mean just the flapper? The whole lid top assembly is a smaller diameter than the H/O. I was looking at this on eBay to try and replicate a H/O air cleaner, but the lid is 15 1/2" wide according to the seller and I need 17" for the 442 base I have. I guess I could use this one and paint it, but the snorkel is a little long.
That flapper assembly and air cleaner you're talking about from that AMC ebay ad appears to have only 2 parts that look like they might fit on an H/O. And that is maybe the flapper door and the actuator. The rest of the stuff isn't correct for a 69 H/O.
Not saying it wouldn't work if you used the entire air cleaner, but it wouldn't look right. JMO. It might even not seal correctly depending on the height.
When most people talk about the flapper assembly, it's usually about the entire top can section that includes the flap itself along with the actuator. If they're talking about the flapper or flap door, then that's what they're discussing. Usually.
The H/O and AMC air cleaners used the same flapper door and vacuum actuator as the Ford system. The stamped housing was unique for each application, but the shape of the "dome" that the flapper door and actuator fit into is the same for all. Some AMC applications used what appeared to be just the "dome" part cut from a larger stamping and spot welded in place under the scoop, as on the hood of this rather unhappy SC/Rambler.
Thank you, does anyone have the top flapper assembly dimensions? Height and width. It looks like the top sits on the lip of the base, but in the photos of the Anderson repro it looks like it sits in the base.
My experience has been most people listing mis-represented items on ebay know it. They seem to have gotten more emboldened now with lots of reproduction items listed as NOS (original packaging never included) and NOS items for a 4-door sedan listed as being for a 442. It's basically fraud but with no repercussions for them.
If you elect not to seek out a place to perform the zinc phosphate metal treatment, Eastwood might sell a phosphate mimicking aerosol paint. I know they have a darker color to represent manganese phosphate, a friend used it on hood hinges and I was surprised how good it looks. You may check if they have the lighter color.
I blame this on nationwide selling. Person to person, someone knew that defrauding someone might result in their knees being destroyed by a ball bat by the guy he ripped off and his friends. Not everyone can be decent on their own, some people need to know about the consequences.
This is directed to 69HO43 & joe_padavano I NEED HELP as you both know I'm getting my 69 HO ready for shows & judges - so going through the small/tiny INCORRECT things we all struggle with let's talk air cleaner on my 69 HO and CORRECT lay out does the HO have that funny looking heat stove adapter - I get the shroud that makes sense was the stove used? Or just the hose from the shroud up I know the thermal sensor inside the air cleaner base is available at the parts place so I'm ok my question should I purchase a new air cleaner vacuum diaphragm since it's a original also was there the exhaust manifold heat tube screen filter I guess I'd like to see a actual CORRECT layout/schematic
Here's some PIM info that may help. Note the W46 from the factory is only the air cleaner base, filter, and inner lower lid. The "can" with the flapper assembly was added at Demmer.
does the HO have that funny looking heat stove adapter
If you are referring to the adapter on the ebay air cleaner in the first post in this thread, as we've noted above, that is a 1968 air cleaner base and is not correct for any 1969 Oldsmobile. The H/O air cleaner didn't use it, as shown in the PIM drawings posted above.
About the vacuum actuator. I'm assuming you mean the Thermac air damper actuator? If yours is still working, I wouldn't goof with it. If it's not, you can replace it, but to do it correctly you will have to get rid of the spot welds on the flat tab side, replace the actuator, then as the GM instructions would have you do, drill a small hole and install a screw. I'd see if I could get that sucker tack welded back like original. JMO.
According to the PIM, W46 was the only one that got a heat stove pipe screen installed. Not sure how true that was in the real world, but if you have it, there's documentation to back it up. P/N 230725, Group 0.417 if you can find one. I found an NOS one years ago and got it for a might-as-well. Fusick sells a repro I think.
The funky looking heat stove that is angled was only on the W-30/31/32 dual snorkel air cleaners in 69. I think the 68 442s and W-30/31/Hurst dual snorkel air cleaner all had the funky looking heat stove pipe as well with the flatter adapter. Could have been others in 68.
The only thing I'm not positive about is the method of attaching the bottom of the heat stove pipe on the shroud in 69. Whether it was a long cotter pin or screws. Screws were pointed out in the PIM. But I've run across some original tubes with cotter pins. Two holes directly across from each other which matched holes in the tube. Maybe some were one way and some another, or maybe I'm mis-remembering something and it was a different year. I can't recall what mine had on it as it's off the engine at the moment. I think they were screws, but not 100%.
Thanks you both 69HO43 & joe_padavano 👍
while I have your attention my 69 HO is #849 BUT I have another ❓ might be impossible to answer here goes what is the CORRECT speedometer cable transmission GEAR my car is a A/C unit which means it has a 3.08 rear end Any Idea what gear + color do I need - please H E L P!!
Your car should have a 3.23 rear gear. 3.08 was not available on 69 H/O that I'm aware of. A/C cars got 3.23. Standard without A/C was 3.42, and optional 3.91. All with limited slip.
Thanks you both 69HO43 & joe_padavano 👍
while I have your attention my 69 HO is #849 BUT I have another ❓ might be impossible to answer here goes what is the CORRECT speedometer cable transmission GEAR my car is a A/C unit which means it has a 3.08 rear end Any Idea what gear + color do I need - please H E L P!!
I believe you need the grey 44 tooth or green 45 tooth, I forget which one at the moment....
Thanks 69Hurst but I need to narrow it down & the chart is confusing the rear end is 3.23 what color & part number do you think the gear should be? And where can I buy one? Also if anybody can add to this discussion I'd appreciate itAgain ThanksAL
Actually, Jeff is correct. Assuming you have the original 18 tooth drive gear, and based on a listed 26.27" diameter (and 82.53" rolling circumfrence) for the F60 x 15 reproduction tire, your 3.23 will take a 44.59 tooth driven gear without any revolution ratio adapter.
Tire revs per mile x drive teeth x rear gear ratio divided by 1001 should get you there. 5,280 feet in a mile, 82.53" circumfrence is 6.8775 feet, thus, 5,280/6.8775 = 767.72 revs per mile
[(767.72 x 18 x 3.23)/1001] gives you the 44.59 tooth calculation.
You can find revolutions per mile with tire diameter if you don't have rolling circumference data. Use 20,168 divided by tire diameter = rev per mile. Thus, 20,168/26.27 = 767.72 revs per mile.
There's probably some gear ratio calculators out there that can do all that brainwork for you, but it's doing the same thing.
My car has 3.91 gears, and I recall it having a black 40 tooth gear with the 0.7333 ratio adapter. If you end up with a number above 45 or under 34, you will need a ratio adapter. Just find your tooth calculation as above, then use available adapter ratios to get your gear that fits. Mine came out to a normal 53.98 tooth gear without an adapter. That won't work, so multiplying that final tooth number by the adapter ratio (0.7333) gives me 39.57, or, a black 40 tooth. If I used a 0.6190 adapter, I'd end up with a 33 tooth, which also won't work. A 0.7692 adapter lands me at 41.52, so I could get away with a 42 tooth gear. But the 0.7333 and the 40 tooth is a hair closer to reduce the error.
Obviously you can't do a 44.59 tooth exactly, so a 44 (dark gray, p/n 9780470) or 45 (light blue, p/n 9775187) from the above chart will have to do as a starting point. I've seen gears advertised as 45 teeth with light green and other colors for TH400, but I haven't researched the reason for that or what, if any difference there is. Maybe someone who's done a lot of transmission work may know. I'd probably start with the 45 if using the repro F60s and go from there.
There are two types of driven gear housings in the side of your TH400, and one takes a 34 through 39 tooth gear (GM p/n 397807), and the other is 40-45 tooth gear (GM p/n 397806). Don't worry, some of those gear tooth numbers are individually cast into the side so you can quickly tell which one you have. Obviously, you can try either gear or and see what it nets you, because the resulting tire diameter size will ultimately be a deciding factor. So if you don't use the F60 x 15 repro tire, and go with different sized radials, or whatever, you may need to adjust the tooth count as necessary.
Although, this discussion is getting way out there on a tangent away from the air cleaner subject. Now we're discussing rear end ratios when we started out under the hood on top of the engine.
Sorry 69HO43 this is my fault in my exuberance to digest info I slipped up not starting another thread I apologize I should follow protocol, won't happen again promisealsmith787
August 23rd, 2022, 09:03 PM
