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Some may remember me posting about my 1970 Cutlass (white bench interior, column shift, open diff) storage locker find (https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ection-111731/) a few years ago. I just realized this is the fifth anniversary since it came home...time flies and I thought I would have been driving it before now! My original plan had been to redo the brake and replace the anemic 260 V8 with a strong 350 then eventually a 455. I got as far as removing the 260/TH350 combo. A friend observed that once the 350 was in and running I probably wouldn't be highly motivated to get the 455 in there...I realized he was right so I set about to install the 455 and TH400 I had. Then "Oh look, a rabbit hole..." happened.
The 455 had sat for about 15 years and while the internals seemed clean enough I had no idea what overall condition the engine was in or what had been done to it apart from a Torker intake, Edelbrock carb and no other sign of modifications. This all led to the suggestion that I could have it rebuilt relatively cheaply. After talking to my machine shop, "cheaply" wasn't really gonna happen...so I reassessed my budget and upgrade plan, started doing some dreaming, planning and (some probably noticed) asking a lot of questions.
Along the way I also acquired another '70 which was pretty crusty but boasted black bucket seats, console shift, posi rear, boxed control arms and a couple other things I liked. The plans shifted to include swapping the interiors and rear ends between the two cars.
Now, with enough money in the bank to realize the dream the first somewhat symbolic milestone of the arrival of a new part has been reached. Edelbrock Performer intake for that new 455...
Last edited by VI Cutty; May 31st, 2023 at 12:22 AM.
The plan is a very healthy 455 for which I'm still making a few decisions and sourcing parts for coupled with a Tremec TKX 5 speed. Posi rear end and the interior swap. This is my first build of this magnitude so I'm still trying to figure things out and attempting to address other aspects of the car in support of the overall upgrade plan.
The block and crankshaft are at the machine shop for hot tanking, etc, before I send the crank off to be drilled for the pilot bearing by someone with all the specs and template for that. The engine was opened up once before judging by the rod bearings and builder's marks on the rods although the pistons seemed stock. Everything looked really clean inside. Crank is a CN casting.
We pulled the posi rear out of the blue '70 donor car last week. 8.5" 10 bolt with bolt in axles. A lot of work trying to determine what rear ends I had over in this thread (https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...utlass-160934/). The 12 bolt posi I have will be going back under the donor car, which has a good running 350 and transmission. The goal with that car is to have it drive out of the shop once I'm done robbing parts from it, then it will be off to a new home and a new life...but that's a different story. I'm still debating what rear end gearing I want to run with the Tremec, and will most likely be swapping out the posi unit as well. Debating an upgrade to 30 spline axles and wondering if it's something that would be worthwhile doing on the assumption the engine will be approaching 500 hp and over 500 torque.
I'll be getting started on the interior removals soon while getting some decisions made on the other parts then waiting for them to arrive. With a bit of luck I'll be able to drive the car some time this summer, but there's a lot of work to be done between here and there.
Thanks...I'm sure a little luck will definitely be needed especially with our current supply chain woes. Dream big, right? :-D I'd like to think that being retired will help push the timeline, but I don't know how I ever had time for a day job as it is!
I'm looking forward to seeing how the 5 speed works out too. The TKX doesn't require any tunnel modification. I'm looking at the Silver Sport Transmissions conversion kit that provides everything I'll need to switch from column shift auto to floor shift manual and will use a hydraulic clutch. I'm sure my knees will thank me in years to come. All in all it looks like a pretty slick setup.
So I decided not to rebuild the worn and less desirable split case unit. Upgrading the posi unit was an opportunity to strengthen the axles as well.
New parts arrived today, thanks to Jim (monzaz on the forum) at JD Race! I gave Jim a call after someone at Moser Engineering told me not to waste money on my rear end and didn't suggest any options...got the definite feeling he couldn't be bothered selling me anything! On the other hand, Jim was more than happy to make sure I got all the right parts to rebuild the rear end, including the Moser axles. He also saved me a significant amount on the parts compared to other places like Summit Racing. Thanks, Jim!
Based on Jim's recommendations, I went with a Yukon Dura Grip posi unit and Moser 30 spline axles. He also set me up with the 3.73 gears I had decided to go with.
Still have to clean up and paint the axle housing before assembling and installing, and in the meantime I'm happy to have these parts here.
Alright, making progress! Glad to hear you got good information and service from monzaz. He has a good reputation and it shows with transactions like this.
Could you give me the part number for those axles, carrier, and bearing kit?
3.73 Gears: YG GM8.5-373
Diff: YDGGM8.5-3-30-1
Master Overhaul Kit: USA Standard Gear ZK GM8.5-HD
Axle Bearings: Yukon Gear & Axle AK 1563
I can't find a part number for the axles, I'm pretty sure they're custom ordered. Customer service/tech/sales rep at Moser couldn't have been any less helpful, so I'd suggest you contact Jim (user name monzaz on this forum). He saved me over $300 compared to buying these through Summit.
I know the thread title is driveline upgrade, but I'm also refreshing the interior and a few other things. Not the least is adding some kick butt tunes! One thing I'm finding with the current supply chain issues and impending inflationary concerns is that the time to buy pieces is now. Prices are likely to be more favourable and if you have to wait longer than usual for an item it's better to be waiting when it's not actually needed yet. The engine is still a long ways out but there's plenty of other bits to be bought.
Today I put together the sound system with the knowledgeable guidance of a good friend (as in he said "This is what you need"). I was happy with what he set me up with in my other Cutlass and this rig is even better.
JVC KD-T915BTS head unit
Kenwood KAC-M8005 Class D 5 Channel Amp
Rockford Fosgate P152-S Two way component speakers (for the front/doors)
Rockford Fosgate P1694 Four way 6x9 speakers for the back
2 x Rockford Fosgate Punch 10" Subwoofers
Cables and stuff
The store tossed in that sub enclosure for free, although I don't think it's going to work in my car. We'll build a custom fit enclosure instead.
My friend will be doing the installation with my help (I'll pass the tools, pass the beer and ask irritating questions) but there's plenty of work to be done before we reach that point. Picking up the transmission tomorrow and will share photos of those parts soon.
The good times are gonna be rolling. I bet you are getting excited. Good luck and have fun.
Thanks! Definitely hard not to get excited! The anticipation of that first drive is killing me but I have a long while to wait for it. On the bright side, assembling everything and watching the whole thing come together is almost as much fun as the driving will be.
Exciting day today, picking up and unpacking the transmission. I had originally wanted to find the correct Muncie M21 and do a period correct conversion to manual, but parts can be hard to come by in my area and honestly, I just didn't feel like trying to chase down 50 year old used parts hoping they were A) correct and B) in good condition. I know there have been some complete setups offered for sale here, but at the asking prices it wasn't that much more to go this route and saves the Muncie parts for a more original car. I'm starting with a bench seat, column shift automatic car which means I needed everything - transmission, bellhousing, shifter, clutch pedal, Z-Bar, flywheel, clutch, etc etc. The idea of a brand new transmission with all new conversion/installation parts had great appeal to me.
The donor car has the bucket seats and console I'll need as well as the steering column and speedometer (without the PRDSL indicator), although I think I have another column housing in my parts stash...and may use all aftermarket gauges in the dash for a cleaner finish. More on that later.
I need to source a 4 speed saddle to convert the automatic shift console for use with the stick, and probably a couple other console pieces just for restoration. I think item HH104 from HH Classic Auto should do the job. (http://hhclassicauto.com/H&H%20Brochure%202021.pdf)
I decided on the Tremec TKX 5-speed transmission which is rated for 600 ft lbs of torque, 8000 engine RPMs and shifts up to 7500 RPM. The design is just a couple of years old and will bolt straight into the GM A Bodies (and many others) without having to do any tunnel modifications. Well, apart from cutting a hole for the shifter.
I went with Silver Sport Transmissions in Rockford, Tennessee mostly because I liked the look of their full conversion kit. I also opted for a hydraulic clutch which I think my knees will thank me for in years to come. SST was great to deal with - very responsive to calls, good information, fast shipping and confirmation emails. Everything was well packed too.
It was like a second Christmas as I dug into the four boxes these goodies arrived in! Of course the biggest box was the transmission itself, snuggled in with assorted documentation. I can't disagree with the warning label on the box
Box 2 contained the McLeod Racing flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disc while the third box had all the necessary fluids. I guess I'll have to RTFM to find out what the ATF is for!
The last box held plenty of goodies. The hydraulic clutch components, bellhousing and cover, pedals, stick, shifter ball, installation hardware, etc. This gonna be fun!
There's a local fellow who makes custom shifter *****, some sort of acrylic material...I'll probably see what he can come up with eventually.
Finally time for a bit of daytime dreaming...as you can see there's a lot of work between the current reality and my dreamstate of banging gears in this car. I'm getting a lot of parts stacked up but still need to dig into the interior and wait for the engine. Plenty of work to be done in the engine bay as well, including a new wiring harness.
Thanks! Still just a slowly growing pile of parts, but hopefully things will start going together before much longer!
Originally Posted by stan 65 cutlass
Damn Clay, your getting serious. I can’t wait to see you drive around town in that beast
You and me both, Stan!
Not a lot of progress since my last post, been tied up organizing and participating in assorted local car events with my current roadworthy wheels. Still waiting on my pile of engine parts from Bernard Mondello but we should soon reach the generally anticipated delivery window. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find someone to assemble my rear end though. At this point I'm regretting not just swallowing the additional shipping costs and having Jim (monzaz) send me a complete assembly. I still have a couple leads and plenty of time, though. My biggest obstacle though are all the VW parts that keep accumulating and getting in my way.
I've removed the rest of the front end for easier access to the frame and firewall for cleaning, painting, hydraulic clutch setup and eventual engine/transmission installation. Interior is starting to come out as well and I'll see what all I need to replace. As many projects of this nature tend to do, this one has moved far beyond the original scope and I'm having to learn my way through a lot of the upcoming work. It's all good, and hopefully I'll have everything together in time for spring cruising in 2023.
Slow progress, but hopefully the current movement will build into big results. Dropped the rear end housing and lower control arms off for sandblasting and painting today, should have it back next week and straight up to another fellow for assembly. Was going to drop a few other parts for blasting as well but they need more time cleaning grease and grime off them first.
Got a call from Bernard Mondello last Friday letting me know that my engine parts will be shipping this week, then we got to talking about the state of the new Edelbrock heads in "out of the box" condition. I'd been seeing the many comments and concerns/critiques about their short comings. Long story short, I've decided to wait another 6ish months for Bernard to blueprint my heads. With a small amount of juggling with my machine shop, I will hopefully still have my new engine sometime around May or June which should keep me on my timeline to be driving the car next summer.
I think I need to get things moving faster on this project, though. All this "down time" gives me too much opportunity to think, look and come up with more work to be done. Fuel system is the latest...realizing that I need to install 1/2" fuel lines, new fuel pickup and "might as well" treat the whole thing to a new tank as well.
Rear end housing was blasted, painted and dropped off with the builder.
Yesterday I imported four boxes across the border...three from Bernard Mondello and one containing a pair of tall GMPP valve covers from 70W-32. Now I need to figure out what kind of detailing I want to do to the valve covers...what have others done to get away from the "as cast" finish?
Now I need to figure out what kind of detailing I want to do to the valve covers...what have others done to get away from the "as cast" finish?
I have seen them several ways. Recessed areas painted the engine color, satin black and flat black. Raised areas either left as cast, polished or painted.
Kind of like an early Christmas here! Still have to source some stuff like water pump, alternator, power steering, fuel pump...because who wants to put grimy used parts on a shiny new engine like this! The heads are still to come, but we'll get going on the bottom end assembly. Aiming for about 10.1:1 compression. These are the goodies Bernard Mondello sent up my way.
- CP/Bullet pistons, .030 over
- Scat H-Beam rods
- BMRE (Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises) roller cam (from Howard's Cams) and lifters with 4/7 swap
- BJH Billet harmonic balancer
- Cloyes for BMRE billet true roller timing chain set
- Harland Sharp 1.6 ratio roller rockers
- ARP cylinder head bolts, main studs, upgraded 7/16 rocker studs
- BMRE 7 quart high volume oiling system (pan, blueprinted pump, pickup, oil pump drive and mounting studs)
- Full length windage tray with adjustable stand off studs
- BMRE/Cometic head gaskets
- BMRE complete gasket set
- Complete MSD Ignition System (distributor, coil pack, plug wires)
- Quick Fuel SS850 carb (mechanical secondaries, electric choke)
...and a couple other odds and ends.
Rear end is back and assembled. Had I been thinking (at least, thinking about the right things) I would have had the backing plates blasted and painted so I could have sent them up with the rest of the parts. Oh well, not a big deal.
All new components as listed earlier in the thread, thanks to Jim (monzaz) at JD Race. Have to decide whether to use the old springs or do some upgrading of them, sway bar and such before doing the swap.
Pretty much everything stripped forward of the firewall to prep for paint. Interior gutted, steering column removed. Pulling the interior out of the donor car now...things are tight in the shop while the donor is on the ground!
Picked up my RobbMC fuel pump and pickup today. Gauges ordered from Speedhut and a Hydratech brake boost system is also on it's way. Getting there!
Got my "care package" from SpeedHut today. These are 3 3/8" gauges complete with all needed senders. They're slightly smaller than the bezel openings, but 4" gauges would have been too big...either way it looks like some bezel modification is needed. I'm happy with how these turned out can can't wait to see them come to life!
My current thinking is to get a piece of metal laser cut to the shape of the woodgrain piece with smaller openings for the gauges. I'll need to trim the backside flange of the bezel down to be able to catch enough threads on the keeper rings.
Speedhut lets you add custom graphics to the dial face, amongst many other options. I don't think I'll get tired of looking at the rockets.
The holes are too big to clamp the gauge in the bezel. The back plate might work for this, but then I'm still stuck with having to address the missing chrome around the holes, so I figure a custom piece will take care of all these issues. I have a friend with a laser cutter and powder coat oven so we might just have some fun here.
another woodgrain covered sheet metal with smaller holes to simulate factory
I debated that...I also need panels for the console...but then I noticed the rest of the dash is missing the woodgrain as well so I decided to take the opportunity for some personalization there. After all, the car was far from original when I got it and I'm not moving it any closer to originality with this project!
One thought was some carbon fibre (vinyl wrap) on the inserts, but I'm leaning more towards some kind of powder coated design to bring some custom colour into the interior.
I used a textured black vinyl wrap on the dash and door panels in my vista where the wood grain would have been. I originally used carbon fiber wrap, but it looked a little cheezy.
More parts have arrived, and many more on the way in the next week or so. I've been cleaning the firewall and frame for paint prep and looking forward to starting the reassembly process. Have to pick up a few more parts from my sand blaster next week as well. My heads are still in "machine shop jail" (is that a thing too?) and Bernard suggested they were still a few months away at the beginning of February. I'll have a lot of work that can't be done until I have the completed engine back so things seem to be getting pushed well into August. Kind of frustrating but at the same time it means I won't feel the need to rush anything.
I mocked up the Wilwood disc brake setup, learned they don't use backing plates apparently (anybody else find that, or is it just the caliper bracket that isn't used?). For anyone wondering, the 14" SS2/3 wheels I have fit with no clearance issues. One unexpected "surprise" was the wheel stud diameter and thread pitch aren't the same as the original studs, and had to get some new lug nuts.
Mostly "boring" parts this time...engine mounts, radiator hoses, heater core, rear brake self adjuster hardware, wheel cylinders, brake flex lines (front/back...metal lines are enroute from Inline), spring cushions, axle flange gaskets (time to get the rear end finished up and into the car), new ignition cylinder to replace the one I stole for my '71, rear brake shoes, gas cap. Boring stuff, but essential.
Those rotors are "Universal" fits other bolt patterns? Not sure I like that- I guess it's Ok just seems sorts hokey... Looks like you're coming right along! Good work.
Those rotors are "Universal" fits other bolt patterns? Not sure I like that- I guess it's Ok just seems sorts hokey... Looks like you're coming right along! Good work.
Yes, they're drilled for a couple of bolt patterns. Won't see it when the wheel's on the car so maybe I won't think about it at all once things are back together :-D
What size wheel studs are they? As said, you won't see the extra holes, I do like that I could keep my 14" front wheels. No sure the I like the no dust covers, tons of gravel roads here. I do need to convert to disks up front eventually. Nice work.
What size wheel studs are they? As said, you won't see the extra holes, I do like that I could keep my 14" front wheels. No sure the I like the no dust covers, tons of gravel roads here. I do need to convert to disks up front eventually. Nice work.
The new studs are 1/2-20.
I need to do some more digging on the backing plate and if I don't find anything clear I may just mock it up again with the backing plate to see how it fits.
This video gives a good walkthrough of installing the set I have, except on a Chevelle. No backing plates were used, and if one did use them I don't know if it would throw off the clearances. One other thing I picked up on this morning is that the stock flex lines won't fit, so looks like I need to get some Wilwood braided flex lines with the right adapters and fittings.
While cleaning the frame and front suspension I noticed the lower ball joint boots were cracked and torn. I'd been hoping to put off getting that for into the front end until I've had some time to drive the car but I couldn't let those go, so apart they come. I think I've said a couple times before that I've taken off pretty much everything I can or plan to. I'm gonna stop saying that now because I just seem to keep jinxing myself! With the spindles off I might as well replace all the control arm bushings as well. They're 53 years old, and look it.
Spindles came off pretty easily. I read through Lady72nRob71's front suspension rebuild thread which was very helpful, especially his jerry rigged tool to apply pressure for popping the balljoints. With the front end barren, I did some thinking on whether to upgrade with tubular control arms etc, but the overall build budget has already taken quite a beating. I won't be driving the car competitively or really hard like Gymkata stuff so I've decided to just replace the bushings, shocks, maybe the springs and will probably stick with the stock sway bar for the time being seeing as it's easy to replace at any time. I'll be going with rubber bushings, not polyurethane. I think at this point the only removable parts ahead of the firewall are the motor mount pads. Notice I didn't say I won't be removing them. Sigh.
At this point, the only original bushings and mounts left are the body mounts. After debating the next step for a while, deciding not to remove the body from the frame I finally flip flopped and am going ahead with the separation. It just doesn't make sense to be so close to this point and leaving the old rotting body mounts in place. The front two bolts came out pretty easily. When I moved to the back end, the first bolt (left side rear) spun the caged nut. Oh joy. Cut through the bolt with my sawzall and will have to cut an access port in the trunk to fix the nut. After that I was kinda worried about how the next three bolts would be, but they all decided to cooperate!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no more bolts holding the body on? Two removed at the firewall and four removed between the rear axle and rear bumper, so a total of 6 bolts?
I forgot about this thread and then was reminded about it from your "body mount" thread. So looked at this one again- you're doing great! Too bad one of the caged nuts slipped, but at least the others came out, so you're mostly lucky!! How are your gauges coming along? They look nice!
I've seen some guys modify the stock gauge bezel to remove the "rings" and then surface mount the new gauges directly to the bezel trim. I'm not sure where you would get the correct woodgrain material to recover the stock bezel face. I bought the 4-1/2" gauges from SpeedHut and like you I had them customize the face graphics, although I wish I had put the Olds rocket logos on all of them instead of just the quad gauge. I made a sheetmetal plate to mount the new gauges behind the stock bezel using the factory mounting point. I had to file down the backside of the Olds bezel a bit but it fits nicely inside the SpeedHut bezels and looks stock-ish. I posted some pics below.
I forgot about this thread and then was reminded about it from your "body mount" thread. So looked at this one again- you're doing great! Too bad one of the caged nuts slipped, but at least the others came out, so you're mostly lucky!! How are your gauges coming along? They look nice!
Thanks, Greg! Amazing how this simple, fairly low budget "driveline upgrade" has snowballed into a full frame off job. And I should know better about those MAWs, but here I be. I'm calling the body mount bolt battle a win :-)
Originally Posted by cdrod
I've seen some guys modify the stock gauge bezel to remove the "rings" and then surface mount the new gauges directly to the bezel trim. I'm not sure where you would get the correct woodgrain material to recover the stock bezel face. I bought the 4-1/2" gauges from SpeedHut and like you I had them customize the face graphics, although I wish I had put the Olds rocket logos on all of them instead of just the quad gauge. I made a sheetmetal plate to mount the new gauges behind the stock bezel using the factory mounting point. I had to file down the backside of the Olds bezel a bit but it fits nicely inside the SpeedHut bezels and looks stock-ish. I posted some pics below.
Rodney
Thanks, Rodney! I saw you post your gauges and mounting method a while back, I think you gave me the inspiration to add the logos. I was originally thinking I'd fabricate something similar to what you've done but realized that wasn't really going to work with the 3 3/8" gauges. My current plan is to cut a sheet metal insert and bond it to the bezel like you mentioned. I'll cut the existing holes out of the bezel so things sit flush...good thing I have a spare here in case I screw one up! My dash doesn't have any woodgrain on it apart from what used to be on the gauge bezel so I'm not planning on adding it back. I'll either go with the metal insert and plates for the console painted black or maybe get some swirly powdercoating done by an artistic friend of mine.
One of the factors swaying my decision to pull the body was when a big chunk of thick undercoat came easily off the frame with surface rust underneath it. No serious rust, but where there's some there's gonna be more and it would bug me for as long as I own the car and I'm in my right mind. The lack of attention to the hard to see area at the back of the trunk underside behind the bumper, the dark corners of the trunk and elsewhere don't sit right with me so here we go.
Next up is figuring out how I'm going to lift and support the body, how far I'm going to go on the frame (MAW get it blasted now...), what suspension upgrades are justifiable and affordable and putting a new shopping list together.
January 26th, 2022, 04:39 PM
….good luck
