danlanphear

Hi,

I have a 64 dynamic with the 394. It has been sitting for many years. I am trying to rotate the engine. I started by removing the spark plugs and pouring some WD 40 into each cylinder and letting it soak for a long time (weeks). I then put fresh oil and a battery into it and tried the key. It turned over about 180 degrees then stopped.

The starter may or may not be working right, so I tried turning it with a wrench on the crankshaft bolt. It would not rotate clockwise any further. I could back it around counter clockwise about 180 degrees to where it started, so I kept spraying and soaking with PB, and then later with a mixture of ATF and Acetone, which I have read online is supposed to be good at breaking things free.

I have been repeating this process off and on since last fall. I think it's maybe moving more than it was before, but it really stops hard at some point on either side of the 180-195 degree turn I'm getting out of it. In between that, it rotates quite easily.

Eventually, I cracked the bolt loose going counterclockwise, so it became stuck to the right. I pulled the inspection cover off the bottom of the bell housing and was able to rotate it again counterclockwise by prying against the flywheel teeth. Same degree of rotation, however.

I also tried it with the transmission in neutral and other positions, but that had no effect.

I pulled the valve covers. The valve train looks quite crusty with oily black junk, like if you used cheap oil and didn't change it often for like ... 50 years. Anyway, I sprayed and soaked again, this time on the springs, lifters, down the intake, into the exhaust ports, and down the pushrods. Again, no effect.

Obviously, I am starting to suspect a mechanical problem. I have so far not observed any movement of the valve train. No springs and rocker arms moving, but again, I'm only turning it by hand about 1/2 a turn. Plus, it's so crusty it's hard to be sure.

I haven't pulled the distributor cap yet to see if it's turning, so I'll try that next.

So, finally, my questions are:

1. Am I missing something simple and obvious?
2. Can I confirm whether the valve train is the problem without tearing down the engine? Is the distributor driven by the camshaft on this motor?
3. Does this motor have a timing chain or a timing belt?
4. Does anybody here have an electronic copy of a service manual for this engine you would be willing to share?

Thanks.

joe_padavano

Welcome. I merged your two identical threads. It's neither necessary, nor really in your best interest, to duplicate threads. You'll get a quicker and more accurate answer if all responses are kept in a single thread so errors can be caught and corrected.

Have you considered that the car was parked due to a mechanical failure in the engine? It could just be heavy rust buildup, or it could be something broken. Unfortunately you won't know until you pull the heads.

All Olds V8s used a timing chain and the distributor is driven from the cam.

If you plan to do any work on this car at all, spend the money and buy an original factory Chassis Service Manual. The 1964 manual is a five volume set. There never were electronic originals, so any PDF or reproduction CD was generated from a scan of a paper original. Detail and pages get lost, and many buyers complain that they can't read some of the diagrams, like wiring diagrams. There are a number of originals on ebay currently.

danlanphear

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes, I did consider that the car may have been damaged before I got it. However, I seem to recall having rotated the engine by the starter a few times when I first acquired it 7 years ago. The fuel lines were badly deteriorated, so I was not able to start it. I think I sprayed some starter fluid in it and it fired briefly, so I figured it was fine.

It was given to me for free by a very honest man whose wife demanded he get rid of it. He had driven it for 20 years, but didn't have time to keep up with it anymore. So, it had been sitting in his yard for about 8 years at that point. He asked me to make him an offer on it, and I said "I'll offer to haul it off for you as junk and get your wife off your back about it." He accepted.

Anyway, I did verify the distributor was turning with the crankshaft. I also found that the valvetrain on the driver's side seems to be moving. I think there is a problem with the valvetrain on one or two cylinders on the passenger side. I don't think rust is the culprit. Frankly, I'd rather deal with a could of broken valve stems than a bunch of rusted bores.

Question: You sent a link to a 69 chevy manual. Is that applicable to this particular car, or were you just making an example?

Don R.

Welcome aboard! Have you tried removing the starter to see if it is locked up?

danlanphear

It's not the starter. I confirmed that

I pulled the intake manifold today. I can see the camshaft, lifters, rods, etc. I don't see any obvious problem. I can spin all the rods by hand. I couple had a little play in them from top to bottom, but none seemed bent. The camshaft looks ok, but for some reason, it's not pushing a couple of the lifters up. I don't know if the lifters might be jammed in the block or something. I sprayed them down with PB to sit overnight. I'll try tapping them loose tomorrow with a mallet.

I also looked into each cylinder with an inspection camera. I didn't see any obvious issues, but I couldn't see the tops of the cylinders (bottom of the valves) because I couldn't get the camera up to that angle. I also looked in through the intake and exhaust ports, but I didn't see any problems there either. I couldn't see down past the camshaft into the crank case very well.

oldcutlass

Look at the valves and see if one is hung open.

danlanphear

I'm trying to tell that. I can't see for sure, even with the bore scope. It doesn't seem so however. I think it's a couple of stuck lifters. The rods aren't moving up and down on two cylinders.

...

Just checked: all the lifters are free. I can't find anything wrong with the valvetrain with the heads on.

I pulled the fuel pump in case it was the drive tang causing it--it wasn't.

I'm starting to wonder about the bottom end now. Or, if the block is warped, but I doubt it. The engine turned over when I first acquired it, and I never ran it after that. I'll pull the oil pan to check the bottom end from there. If nothing, I'll pull the heads and see what's going on in the cylinders.

If there's nothing obvious, can I tell if the block is warped without pulling it out of the car?

Is there any chance this has something to do with the transmission? The shifter moves freely, and it rolls in neutral, but not in park.

m371961

So with the lifters and pushrods or rockers removed you still cannot spin engine? Have you removed the inspection plate from the bellhousing to insure nothing is jaming the flywheel? Pulled the distributor to make sure it or the oil pump is not jammed?

danlanphear

Hi. To be clear, the rods and lifters are not out, they are just confirmed to be freely able to move inside at the camshaft. In other words, I can spin all the rods and lifters by hand in the block. I just bought a spring compressor last night in case I need to pull the valve springs.

I pulled the inspection plate to rotate the motor with a prybar, but I didn't look up inside the bellhousing yet.

I did not pull the distributor yet, but it seems to turn fine with the camshaft, I can see the gear meshing there through the top of the block. I didn't drop the oil pan yet, because I wanted to let all the oil finish draining overnight. I'll pull that next, look at the crank, then pull the oil pump and distributor.

If none of that works, I guess I can still pull the timing chain cover, and then only the heads will be left. I'd like to avoid that unless I can find some compelling evidence that there is actually a problem in there.

I can take pictures if anybody wants to see what's going on. Thanks for the response.

P.S. a couple of the little bolts on the water pump snapped off. I'm guessing that's common on these? I'm going to have to drill and retap I think.

m371961

Have you looked at a manual to understand how all the parts work and rotate with each other? What is your engine knowledge and experience. I ask as knowing that helps us help you.
I would look all around the flywheel/flexplate area first and make sure nothing is hanging up it. I have seen acorns placed by rodents cause trouble.
Then I would remove rocker arms and check. Mark them so they can go back in the same spot. I still suspect a stuck valve.
The dist may turn, but it ain't turning a full rotation and may have a object jamming it. If you remove it realize you will have to time it when installing.
I would then remove the timing cover and the chain.
The last thing I would do is remove the pan. I hate fooling with the lower end under the car. I have done it when I was younger and would rather go to the trouble of yanking an easy to remove engine then do it anymore.
Troubleshooting is a methodical process. Easy stuff checked first, then move on to the next easiest. The trick is knowing the order.