Scary Gary

Hi CO,

I just picked up my '69 Cutlass Ragtop on Thursday.


This is what I know:
It is pretty much franken-stock.
1969 Cutlass S CONVERTIBLE
1971 455CI 7.5L 396021F
Rochester Quadrajet
1968 TH400 - OG 6817108
HEADS - GA 409100

I have a points system which will be replaced very soon with a Mallory Unilite.
I just need to figure out how.

I also have the 1969 Oldsmobile, Cutlass, Toronado Factory Shop Manual on CD on it's way.

I can wrench with the best of 'em but I am not a mechanic so I hope you guys will be my guide.

cheers
Gary
"Happiness is wanting what you have...and I have a 455!"

citcapp

Glad to have you aboard, now your have to post the obligatory pictures or you Olds turns into a Yugo You have two days to respond

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO Gary

Scary Gary

Thanks.

So my first job will be to service the drums all the way around.
Any suggestions?

lshlsh2

I know it will be more expenisive but if you have to redo brakes you may want to consider changing to front discs. This is only if you are going to drive it alot. Discs stop your car much better. I had a car with drums only and it could be an adventure to stop. my .02
Larry

jack69cutlass

Congrats on the new ride. Not sure what condition your car is in, but YOU and your car will be in a lot better condition with good brakes. I recently bit the bullet and had front power discs installed on my 69 Cutlass S Convertible. Best move I have made yet.

There were (and still are) competing projects for my time and money, but I am thrilled that I have modern brakes that can stop my car in traffic like everyone else--not pumping, swerving, hoping and praying to haul her in at every light. Taking the car out should be an adventure, stopping needs to be real and reliable. I still need a top, wipers, an interior, a radio and plenty more, but I can enjoy the car all day long and even take my wife and kids for a ride knowing I can stop and stop well.

Love to see pics of yours.
Jack

redoldsman

X2 I have seen it happen. Not a pretty site.

Jamesbo

Welcome aboard

Well, At least ya got the right year Olds.

It's interesting that the hotest 69 [W-30] had drums all the way round. It could go, but I'm not sure about them stopping.

firefrost gold

Dont get sucker by muscle car brake I put there stage 3 drum kit in and it still not very good. shure it stops yes there all new but no there not disk. OPGI sells a gm
shoe that they say is the top line can anyone else coment on that?

cutlassjoe

Definitely go with disc brakes up front. I had drums on my 72' and it was scary! You never knew which way they were going to pull you. I was on the highway, and a gravel truck swerved into my lane. I jumped on the drums, and I swear the car sped up! The shop where my car was at offers a GM disc brake conversion kit for $530.00 with free shipping. I am running the e-bay store for them. Look them up under JH Restorations. Let me know if you have any questions. Post pics!

stan 65 cutlass

on the other hand, servicing the drums is still a good idea unless you got the bucks to convert. my 64 bonneville was all drums and all car, 4door hardtop, it would still put the passenger into the dash

firefrost gold

stan how many years ago was that ? Can you still get good shoes ? With epa and ohsa and the decline is sales . My gto from the 80"s was better than what I have now same drum size all four adjusted and blead .
cyro treated drums high voulume cylenders the best I could find parts or the best sale's info

501Paratrooper

Welcome and x2 on the right year!

stan 65 cutlass

last year before i sold it, never had to replace any shoes so not sure about how good they are now to buy. clean and properly adjusted they will stop you under normal driving. thats the key, properly adjusted and bled

ziff396

Back in the day (early 70's) I never thought twice about drum brakes as they were the norm. It was just the same as learning how to drive and what to expect. Not a problem. Kind of the same as when Atlanta or southern areas get 1" of snow. Look out!!! Of course, I live in Michigan. My previous vehicle was a 69 ElCamino big block with all 4 drums. Again, no problems. But yes they were all new and bled properly.
I did however convert my 72 Cutlass to front discs as I am spoiled by driving new. It was worth the money.

Scary Gary

Thanks guys, I agree as the last ride was Scary stopping.

Okay so here is the question can this conversion be done from the floor on jack stands? Or do I need to invest in some shop time? Is it a difficult job? I would prefer to do it myself over the winter but really do not want to have the car apart for months on end as I learn how to convert to disc.

Pic!!! (I hope these work)

MDchanic

FWIW, in my experience, the difference between stock disc and drum brakes is not overall stopping power (unless they get hot, like going down a pass in the Rockies), but modulation and evenness.
Discs are much easier to give just that right amount of pressure to before they really grab, while drums are a bit more "on or off."
Discs are also more likely to grab the same amount on both sides, whereas drums will occasionally surprise you by one grabbing harder because one is damp, or hot, or whatever.
Drums DO work, though, so it's okay to clean 'em up and adjust them and use them 'till you're ready to upgrade.

- Eric

Cameo White

Nice looking 69 vert you have there!

6inarow

'69's look good in red. Well, probably most cars do but your car looks real nice. Look forward to seeing more pics of your car.

jack69cutlass

Wow your car looks great. Those are the exact stripes I want to put on mine. On another thread I have been asking about those stripes. Are they paint or vinyl? They look awesome.

As for brakes, I bit the bullet and paid for the install. I found a shop an hour and half away and had the last, worst ride of my life getting the car there. A week later I got the car back and have TOTAL confidence on the road. It was more expensive to have it done, but I made up for it by not having the car laid up, enjoying it and getting a NAPA warranty on the parts and installation. All I can say is it was well worth it. The last time I attempted a full brake job on a car (68 Charger) it was a near disaster with total brake failure on road test. Never again. Also, most kits require 15" wheels (can't tell what you have). My shop was able to make it work perfectly with my existing 14"ers. Here's mine...

MDchanic

Now that's what you call a philosophical difference.

I would NEVER, under ANY circumstances, let another person touch my brakes.
I want to know EXACTLY what was done and have the confidence and peace of mind that comes with knowing what was done, how it was done, and that it was done right.
I DO NOT want to be driving around wondering whether the guy who did the work had just had a fight with his girlfriend, or had taken a cigarette break and had his buddy finish up for him and miss something.

- Eric

Scary Gary

Thanks! They are vinyl. Upon really close inspection you can see the edge. But big deal this Rocket ain't gettin' on a trailer any time soon.

I think I will rework the drums for this year and see what I get. If it really bothers me I will consider the upgrade.

MDchanic

There are 3 reasons why discs are better:

1. They dissipate heat better.
2. They inherently keep themselves adjusted.
3. They throw water off.

#1 is not an issue for normal driving, but could be for long mountain roads if you don't want to downshift, or for trailer towing, or for those hours you spend on the racetrack.

#2 is not an issue if you pay attention to them and notice if one side starts to pull harder than the other, and adjust them.
Disc pads pull away from the rotor about 0.001" or so when you let your foot off the pedal and stay there.
Drum shoes are pulled away from the drum by springs, and their clearance to the drum is maintained by "self-sdjusting" screws that don't actually adjust themselves all that well, but are not hard to keep on top of if need be.

#3 is something you take for granted if you're an "older" driver.
If drums get wet (say, from going through a deep puddle), the water inside is thrown ONTO the drum surface by centrifugal force as the wheel spins, and has to be squeezed out of the way by the shoes. If you'e old, you instinctively tap the brakes whenever you go through a puddle to do this, so you don't get a surprise if you have to stop suddenly.
If discs get wet, they fling the water off of themselves as the wheel spins, but may still be a bit grabby or iffy right after a deep puddle.
The key difference is that the discs will be dry after a block even if you don't apply them, while the drums could still be wet a few blocks later if you haven't tapped them.

No mysteries. You should be fine.

- Eric

Addendum:
There is no question that disc brakes are "better" than drums, and provide a greater margin of safety. The fact of the matter is that a 1970 Porsche 911 S will stop and perform emergency maneuvers better than a 1970 442 (and with muscle car prices being what they are, would probably be cheaper to buy), and a Formula 1 car would do even better than that, though it would rattle your teeth out after 2 blocks. My 1998 4-cylinder BMW with snow tires can drive circles around my '70 Chevelle SS. The question isn't what is the absolute "safest" or "best," but rather where each of us chooses to strike a balance. We've already made compromises that we believe are acceptable in choosing to drive these cars, and, in general, these compromises seem to be working well for us (when was the last time you heard of an accident caused by a '60's-era car's drum brakes not working as well as discs would have?).

So don't worry.

Rickman48

Had a '67 BB Impala SS w/drums, and found a set of metallic shoes that, I swear, would out-stop discs!
Trick was to let them warm-up, [ride 'em] for 1/2 mile, and be careful! Also to replace the drums and hardware @ brake job time!
The hotter they got, the better they stopped! Had to keep an eye on the mirror on the x-way!
Of course, that was back in the '70's, with 1/3 the traffic!!

Jamesbo

Now you're bringin back high school memories.

Ride the metalics til they heat up and stop ya.