ACID64

Just wanted to introduce myself, I have a 64' F85 in the garage which needs a lot of work, but it has all the pieces. I've been reading through the site for the past week and lots of good information! Look forward to spending more time on here and learning about my car.

Cyd

1969w3155

Welcome to the site, post pics of your Olds when you can.

64Rocket

Welcome aboard.
Yes pic's are always wanted.
Gene

oldcutlass

Welcome to CO, pic's please!

plee3 64Olds

Welcome! I have a 64 myself! There is alot of useful information here! These Guys helped me ALOT! Please post some pics.

ACID64

Thanks for the welcome. Just a few questions that I hope havnt been asked a thousand times already.

A friend mentioned it was built on the same platform as the Malibu, I thought it was similar to an Impala. What platforms do the F85 share?

Also I like to get a quick opinion on the steps to restoration, the car is fairly clean, it needs paint (looks like someone took my house paint and used it on the car) It has a knock in the engine, but still runs. Brakes feel like they need to be bled. Window moldings are non existent. Electric windows don't work, A/C doesn't work, Heater core needs to be replaced and the carpet needs to be replaced. I'm sure there is much more but that's my list for now. Should I concentrate on getting a solid running car, then work on the paint, moldings, interior, etc...?

OLD SKL 69

Welcome to the forum. Looks like a solid starting point, I would definitely start working on all the mechanical items first, this way you can at least drive it and enjoy it. Then you can decide if you want to go to the trouble of a frame off restoration or just do a frame on.

Aron Nance

Welcome to CO, Acid74! Go for the mechanical items first, i.e BE SAFE! Then you get to drive it while you perform the cosmetic items down the road. Take it a step at a time, and don't get in too big a hurry. Nice beginning. Keep us posted on your progress.

jaunty75

No, it is not on the same platform as the Impala. Impala, Bel Air, etc. were the full-size Chevrolets comparable to the Olds 88.

The F-85 was smaller and, as your friend said, comparable to the Chevelle and Malibu.


I have one quick question about your car. Is it truly an F-85, or is it a Cutlass? The Cutlass was an upscale version of the F-85, and many people use the terms interchangeably for these cars from that era. In fact, for the first three years of the Cutlass ('61 to '63), it was actually correctly called an "F-85 Cutlass" as it was an option on the F-85 line. It became its own series starting in 1964.

One reason I ask is that the car has power windows and air conditioning. Both, I believe, would have been rare options on an F-85, which was the lowest-end Oldsmobile you could buy that year. People buying a bare-bones Oldsmobile often did so to save money and thus didn't then turn around and deck it out with high-end options.

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO, as all have said do the mechanicals (brakes especially) first and the rest can be done later. Jaunty, good perception on the low end car being decked out like that and I agree, it would be quite unusual to find one that way.

TK-65

Wrong, all A bodies in 64-65 and probably 66 were F85s. Cutlass was a trim level, not option, just like the prior years. Thus why the dash emblem in 65 has F-85 and Cutlass on it. And the steering wheel cap in 64 says F85, along with the grill.



64 442 window sticker, F-85 Cutlass Convertible.

jaunty75

I'm sorry, but I'm not wrong.

That window sticker's VIN indicates Cutlass. It says "F-85 Cutlass" because Olds referred to the Cutlass that way for years after the Cutlass was separated from the F-85 as a series.

For 1961, the Cutlass was a two-door coupe version of the F-85, and it was introduced in April 1961, mid-way, roughly, through the model year. Beginning in 1962, the F-85 was separated into two series, the F-85 and the F-85 Deluxe, with the Cutlass being an option package/trim line on the F-85 Deluxe and available as a coupe or a convertible.

Beginning in 1964, the Cutlass was elevated to its own series and received its own, separate digit in the VIN, and this was true for all later years. For '64, the Cutlass was available as a 2-door post coupe (Sports Coupe), hardtop coupe (Holiday Coupe), and a convertible.

In the case of the VIN in that sticker, it's the second digit. The first digit (8) indicates number of cylinders. The third digit (4) indicates model year. The letter indicates the plant of assembly (M = Lansing).

The second digit indicates the series as follows:

0: F-85
1: F-85 Deluxe
2: Cutlass
3: Jetstar 88
4: Dynamic 88/Jetstar I
5: Super 88
6: Starfire
8: 98
9: 98 Custom Sports Coupe

The digit "7" was not used.

For 1965, the A-body Oldsmobiles were separate into five distinct series, Standard F-85 with V-6 or V-8 engine, Deluxe F-85 with V-6 or V-8 engine, and Cutlass F-85 with a V-8. Each of these had its own different digit in the VIN. As was true for 1964, it's the second digit in the car's VIN that indicates which of these five series the car is.

For 1966 and 1967, A-body designations were carried unchanged from 1965.

Things changed considerably for 1968, when the number of F-85 series was reduced to two (now called "L-6" or "V-8") while Cutlass was expanded to three series (L-6, V-8, and Supreme). The 442 became its own series this year.

Certainly, for reasons having to do with marketing, brand recognition, and consistency with past naming conventions, the term "F-85" was applied to both F-85s and Cutlasses for years following their separation into separate series. This is no different from people referring to their 442s from 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, and 1972 as "442" when they're all more correctly called "Cutlass 442" as it was only 1968-1971 that the 442 was its own series and not just an option package on the Cutlass.

TK-65

So even though the cars have F85 emblems on them, are refered to as F85s in Oldsmobile literature, were listed as the F-85 on the above dealer order form, and were sold as F-85s on the window sticker, they are not F-85s. Okay, you win.

TK-65

Thank you for the education, which I already knew since I read everything there is to know about these cars.

What you dont get is F-85 was the chassis, the body and everything else. The other cars were built under the F85 umbrella, even with the distictive serial numbers. Notice the pages I posted say F85 then break it down by serial code?

jaunty75

As usual, you twist and distort what I say, and then you find fault with that twisted and distorted statement, and then criticize me. You seem to be someone always looking for a fight.

I never said that F-85s weren't Cutlasses. All I said in my original post is that the Cutlass BECAME ITS OWN SERIES in 1964.

Is that too hard for you to understand?

Apparently it is.


You think too highly of yourself. You think I posted all of that above for your benefit? Guess again. It was to help the OP understand what he has.

64Rocket

I'm with "TK"
all "A" body Oldsmobile in '64/65 was under the "F85" body line.
When you got a "F85 Deluxe or a Cutlass they were an up grade of the "F85" body line.
My '64's have "F85" emblem on the grille but say "Cutlass" on the fender.

Gene

72 w29 all green

ACID64,

Nice little car, your '64. While i'm a '70-'72 guy, i've always had a thing for the '64 styling ... maybe because it was the first car i drove (more like "steered") as a kid in the early '70s.

ACID64

Thanks for all the information and feedback, I wish Wikipedia was more detailed!

My VIN starts with 824F - So I believe it to be a Cutlass and not the base F85. I also think the trim level is the Holiday Coupe (Style code 3237). The engine and trans I was told was original, so I'm guessing its paired with the 330 engine and 2 speed powerglide? I probably should have done a little more homework on this before I bought it but it was running so I figured that was good enough. hahah

jaunty75

Yes, you are correct. You have a "Cutlass F-85", at least according to the sevice manual designation.

It's interesting, actually, how little the VIN in those days told you about the car that you couldn't tell just by looking at it. "824" means 8-cylinder engine, which you can tell by looking under the hood, Cutlass F-85, which you can tell by looking for a "Cutlass" badge somewhere, and that it's a '64 model, which, again, you can tell by looking at it. Only the manufacturing plant is something you can't tell this way. The "F" means Fremont, California assembly plant.

This, again, is something you can tell by looking at the car. If it's a 2-door hardtop, it's a Holiday Coupe as coupe meant 2-door, and, with Oldsmobile's naming conventions, "Holiday" meant hardtop. But you're correct in that the style code 3237 indicates Hardtop Coupe.

If it's the original engine, it's a 330 V-8, and the transmission, if it's original and an automatic, would be the two-speed Jetaway. "Powerglide" is technically a Chevy term used for the Chevy two-speed automatic, and it was found on Chevys, of course, and some Pontiacs. While the term is often casually applied to any two-speed GM transmission, the Chevy and Olds transmissions are completely separate beasts mechanically.

The Jetaway was also used in Buicks under the name "Super Turbine 300" and in Pontiacs under the simple name "Automatic."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Turbine_300


What you should also post on here is the information on the body cowl tag, or, even better, post a clear picture of it. This can give you more information, such as original body and roof color and some interior trim and option information. This tag is located on the firewall, I believe, on the driver's side.

It looks like this. This is the one on my '67 Delta 88. Many people on this site can decipher the codes for you.

ACID64

Thanks Jaunty, good information on the transmission.

I do have a picture of my cowl tag.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X...0/DSCN0773.JPG

jaunty75

I don't have the information to decode it, but others on here will. The only thing I can decode is the "7D" at the top, as that gives the build date.

7D translates to 4th week (D) of July (7). That would be, I presume, July of 1964, which would mean that this car was built very late in the 1964 model year. Production generally came to a halt around the end of July each year to allow factories to switch over to the new models in time for them to appear in dealer showrooms in the fall.

Unless it means July of 1963, which it might if new model year production began that early. I really don't know for sure. What are the last six digits of the VIN? They're just the serial number at the particular plant where the car was built, but if it's a low number, it would have been built early in the year. If it's a high number, most likely late in the year.

The VIN serial numbers started with 001001 that year at each plant, so if your VIN is, say, 824F001002, that would have been the second car off the line, and the build date would be July of '63. If it was, say, 824F184933, then you would have had the 183,932nd car off the line, and it was likely July of 1964.

These serial numbers are for all Oldsmobile made at that particular plant, not a particular model at that plant. So if the assembly plant made both Cutlasses and, say, Dynamic 88's, the serial numbers would be for both cars mixed together. So, using my second example, your car would bhe 183932nd Oldsmobile off the Fremont line, as I said, not the 183,932 Cutlass of the line.

Now, in 1964, the Fremont plant made only the A-body Oldsmobiles, so the serial numbers would have included the mix of Standard, Deluxe, and Cutlass F-85's.

TK-65

Wrong again. Fremont made Chevys, Pontiacs, Buicks, and trucks in 64. But you knew that already right? The serial number has nothing to do with total Olds production at Fremont. The ACC code (20936) is the total number of Oldsmobiles (all A bodies) built to that point. Notice the VIN (117376) has no relation to that number.

jaunty75

OK, ********, I meant that the only OLDSMOBILES made at Fremont were the A-bodies. OK?

There you go, trying to pick yet another fight.

Take your little pail and go back to your sandbox.

TK-65

No fight wanted, just correcting your bad info on Fremont VIN numbers.

ACID64

hahah, you guys provide some good comic relief too. Thanks for the information, my VIN is in the 20,000 range from what I can recall.

One other question, I was told the hub caps I have are for a '65 Cutlass, was there a difference in style between the '64s and '65s? Sorry don't have a picture of those on here yet.

spiderjason

Welcome!!!!!!

lunaboy

i know this is an old thread, but what you are saying is vin for 64 824------- could be cutlass trim on either holiday coup, sport coup/post, or convertible.

what would 804------- 0r 801------- be f-85 and deluxe ?

joe_padavano

The 1964 VIN was only 10 characters and did not include the body style.

The first character was the number of cylinders (either 6 or 8).
The second character was the model line. In this case "0" was the base F-85.
The third character was the model year and will always be a "4" for 1964.
The fourth character is the assembly plant.
The last six characters are the sequential build number.

By the way, a VIN that started 801... would be a 1961 F-85.