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Hey everyone! I've posted a fair bit in other sections, but thought I would start a thread to chronicle this build. I also post this stuff to my site (www.customcutlass.com) if anyone is interested in following along.
I inherited this 68 Cutlass S which has been sitting in a garage in NYC for a few years under an inch of dust. She's in pretty bad shape. Flat tire, bent (ugly) wheels, rust everywhere. Going to be a big (expensive) project but it has sentimental value to my wife so I'm in it for the long run.
I have a long list of items I plan on doing, some of which I'll list here:
LS Swap (probably LY6 engine w/whipple supercharger)
4L80E
Modern ECU for LY6 and harness to run entire car for more modern conveniences.
Air suspension
Tubular control arms / other misc. chassis upgrades
Baer Track brake kit with 13" disc brakes in front and 11 in rear
Classic Air AC
Almost all new body panels or tons of patches due to the severe rust
New top
Probably staggered 19x8 / 20x10 or wider wheels to help with the new drivetrain
Maybe a fiberglass hood since the stocker weighs 500lbs
Power windows / locks all around
More to come.
Last edited by jellish; November 30th, 2019 at 03:20 PM.
I dug into the car a little more! I learned yesterday that the engine was a modified 400ci block, and it looks like it has the correct heads for that as well, so I’m pretty certain on that fact now. You can see the stampings in the pictures below. It has an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold as well.
I tried to charge the dead battery up a bit, but my battery charger wouldn’t touch it. I guess being dead for so long wiped it out. After a quick trip to AutoZone, I put in a new battery. I reconnected a few broken vacuum hoses, checked all the wiring and fluids, and used about a can of starting fluid in the carb. After a few pops and setting the choke, she started right up! It’s definitely not running well, but it does run. That at least gives me hope that some of it might be salvageable. I plan on pulling and selling the 400ci and whatever auto is in there to help offset the costs of the restoration/upgrades,
Over the past few days I’ve managed to remove the hood, bumper, front supports/radiator, fenders, fender liners and other various parts. That gets me down to the real body and the chassis. I’ve learned this car was just as rusty as I expected, and will need a LOT of patch work and new body panels. Not gonna be cheap (not that I was expecting it to be). I will be pulling the 400 engine in the next few weeks to put on craigslist/eBay.
I had a lot of interest in the 400 that was in the car, and some interest in the TH3530 as well, so I decided to pull the engine and trans today. I tried pulling it with the headers in place, and that did not go well. So future note to anyone else who does this: make sure you pull the headers first. I also didn’t think about draining the transmission, not thinking about the fact that it would leak out of the output shaft. So now I have a massive mess to clean up the garage! But at least it’s all out and ready to go to a new home.
Last edited by jellish; December 2nd, 2019 at 07:01 PM.
We were all rookies at one point, learned the same as you. You can look at floor stains as a badge of honor. I christened the new house garage floor this past winter.
Pressure wash the floor when you finish, and do a roll on epoxy floor coating. It is a great upgrade, and spills clean up effortlessly. I used a ton of dish soap and scrubbed at it for several hours first, you may spot clean with oven cleaner too. So far, it's held up 100%. Then do a quick paint job on your walls. You'll be amazed at the difference
It’s been a few days since my last update, so I thought I’d make a brief post. I got the Olds 400 sold to a local gentleman named Austin who is going to put it in his ’67, which is awesome! He also has a youtube channel if you want to check it out here. The TH350 and torque converter are still available for $150 to anyone who wants them.
I started removing more of the interior, including the seats and the carpet. The good news is the seat shells seem to be in pretty decent shape, but the front seat cushions/covers are definitely trashed. I knew the floor pan was bad, but it looks like I might be able to get away with only replacing the driver side floor pan which is awesome!
I’ll be continuing on the interior for the next few updates, so stick around for those!
Interior work is much harder than exterior work, that’s for sure. Getting the dash pad off the dash was a nightmare due to the terribly placed nuts holding it to the dash structure. I will be modifying that for sure when I install a new dash pad to make it both easier to install and remove. I know I can get my existing dash reskinned by Just Dashes, but if anyone knows of a place I can just buy a whole new dash pad, please let me know.
Contrary to my last post, the floorboard is in fact not good everywhere other than the drivers side. After vacuuming more/etc. I was able to find rust holes in pretty much every area, as you can see here:
This means I will be doing a total floor pan replacement, which is probably fine anyway as I will be doing some surgery to the tunnel to fit a 4L80E or similar behind the LS engine.
Otherwise, things are progressing nicely. I was able to get the rear seats removed and most of the under-dash items. A few more interior panels in the back area and the interior will be stripped.
One bit of advice I would give is to pony up and buy your swap components from Holley. Using their forward position engine mounts, 4l80e trans crossmember and 302-2 oil pan you should be able to get away without modifying the floorpan. Banjo fittings for the transmission cooler lines also help for the tight space in that area. This kit allows for good driveline angles as well. None of this was available when I did my swap and caused me to go through 3 or 4 different engine mount attempts, 2 different sets of headers and ultimately required a CV joint driveshaft to negate a driveline vibration with my lowered car.
One bit of advice I would give is to pony up and buy your swap components from Holley. Using their forward position engine mounts, 4l80e trans crossmember and 302-2 oil pan you should be able to get away without modifying the floorpan. Banjo fittings for the transmission cooler lines also help for the tight space in that area. This kit allows for good driveline angles as well. None of this was available when I did my swap and caused me to go through 3 or 4 different engine mount attempts, 2 different sets of headers and ultimately required a CV joint driveshaft to negate a driveline vibration with my lowered car.
Great info, thanks! I will add those to my shopping cart. If you have any other advice on the swap definitely let me know!
I have been more than happy with my fuel tank, in tank pump and sending unit from Tanks Inc.
I custom ordered Speedhut gauges for my dash and that company was great to work with, although the Dakota Digital VHX setup is also one he'll of a nice setup.
90's Ford Windstar dual fans are an almost exact fit for the radiators in our cars, flow a ton of air and can be ordered fairly cheap.
Ls1tech.com is a terriffic source of information for swaps. In their conversions and hybrids section read the stickies that apply to your project and use the search function for specific things. Some of the guys over there are a little salty about repetitive questions but if you get stuck on something they are a wealth of information.
There is so much more, but it would take days to type. Love your project and look forward to seeing your progress.
Hey Josh,
Working hard I(we) see.
Don't want to be the buzzkill here but.., I strongly suggest giving that frame a good look before going much farther. These frames are notorious for rot behind the front wheels and forward of the rear wheels, desert-dry cars don't exhibit this. Don't want you get too far into this only to discover the frames bad.
Steve
Hey Josh,
Working hard I(we) see.
Don't want to be the buzzkill here but.., I strongly suggest giving that frame a good look before going much farther. These frames are notorious for rot behind the front wheels and forward of the rear wheels, desert-dry cars don't exhibit this. Don't want you get too far into this only to discover the frames bad.
Steve
Hey Steve, not a buzzkill at all! I've looked at it the best I can and so far don't see anything to make me stop, but I've decided that if it does end up being bad I will buy a stock replacement frame or go with one of the modern frames from Schwartz (https://www.schwartzperformance.com/...velle-chassis/).
Hey Josh, Speaking from experience here, if there is rot on your frame you will most likely find it where the body mounts to the frame so not really visible by just crawling underneath. I found rust at just about every point the frame meets the rubber body mounts, front to back. Good luck! You did pick the best year Olds to work on!
Josh, I'm in the middle of restomodding my 70 cutlass convertible to an LS2 w/T56. I had to modify the tunnel (even with mounting kit from BRP) and had to fab a tunnel. but i was able to find a pre-fab tunnel from tinman.com but needed modifications since it was made for chevelle. good news is that i was able to add a few inches to the hight of the armrest to make it a bit more comfortable. here is the rough pic before permanently welding:
Also make sure you check under the windshield trim (under wipers), there could be more surprises......... i found some. 8(
I was getting tired of tearing the interior down, so I decided to do a little attempt at restoring a panel today. As with most of the parts of the car, the shifter plate was in bad shape. Disgustingly dirty. oxidized, scratched, and peeling. My original plan was to just buy a new assembly ($260+), but I decided to try and clean it up instead. I think it came out pretty well all things considered. Not show car quality, but definitely not bad for a normal car!
Last edited by jellish; December 15th, 2019 at 03:07 PM.
@oldcutlass something is wonky with the image linking I think? The images link to a full size image, but when you click them it just opens a lightbox with the tiny thumbnail. Any ideas?
You need to check the picture size before posting. The site will adjust a little.
If you look at post #10 the thumbnails link to full size images, but if you just click on them the lightbox opens up with the thumbnails. If you right click and open link it opens the full size picture. The lightbox should contain the full size images since that's what's linked.
Last edited by jellish; December 15th, 2019 at 05:18 PM.
I haven’t had much time to work on the car this week, but I did manage to get the steering box and windshield out tonight. The bottom bolts on the steering box were rusted to about half of their original diameter – yikes! Definitely makes me wonder how much thinner the frame is in that area due to rust, even though I see no holes.
Once the windshield was out, I can see there was a lot of rust around the bottom of the birdcage as well. I’m not sure how that region is supposed to look, so if anyone has a good picture of this area without rust I would definitely appreciate it.
I was fortunate enough to have my parents in town for the holidays, and my Dad helped me get the convertible top and trunk lid off. Would definitely have been tricky by myself or with just me and my 97 pound wife! But with his help we had them both off in no time. I got the old vinyl top stripped off the convertible frame and we’re getting closer to complete disassembly.
It’s been a bit since my last post due to work and other commitments, but I managed to make quite a bit of progress these last few days. I made a car rotisserie out of two modified engine stands, and was able to get the body off the frame.
To make the rotisserie, I used two 1000lb engine stands and a 750lb engine stand, both from Harbor Freight. Total cost was around $150 for those parts I believe. I then took the vertical column from the 750lb stand, chopped it into two pieces, and used those to lengthen the vertical columns on both 1000lb stands. After that, I added 400lb casters to the stands to make it move easier, and finally added a connecting rod between the two out of 1.5″ x 1/8″ square tubing.
It went together pretty easily, which I was happy with! Next, I made two supports to connect the stands to the car. This was made out of 1.5″ square tube as well, and just welded to the correct dimensions to fit the front and back mounts of the car. After that was done, it was a pretty simple operation using an engine hoist and jack to get the body off the car!
Once the body was off, I got the frame out into the sun where I could look at it for the first time. The front was caked with oil/grease, so I used some engine degreaser and a pressure washer to clean it up. I was actually really surprised and happy with how the frame looks. Based on the body condition, I was sure it would have tons of holes, but it’s actually in pretty great shape! No soft spots that I could feel, no holes, and only minimal surface rust. I think it’s a keeper!
Ya looks good. Powder coating it? Make sure you treat the insides. If you are making big power consider some gussetting.
Also, put it on a frame rack before any refinishing to make sure it is square & level. Better to find out now..
Can you do a rendering like the gold/white car you have with the OAI hood but with the 68 hood, lose the chin spoiler add 68 OAI bumper scoops. Just curious how that would look? Prob bitchin'.
Ya looks good. Powder coating it? Make sure you treat the insides. If you are making big power consider some gussetting.
Also, put it on a frame rack before any refinishing to make sure it is square & level. Better to find out now..
Can you do a rendering like the gold/white car you have with the OAI hood but with the 68 hood, lose the chin spoiler add 68 OAI bumper scoops. Just curious how that would look? Prob bitchin'.
I definitely need to make sure it's straight. My plan is to probably POR-15 it currently after sandblasting. My issue with powderc oating is if I need to weld in anything/etc. I wouldn't be able to match that finish after grinding, so if I just paint it I can have it look stock afterwards. Regarding gusseting, is there any good source of info on where to put them? It's a convertible so the frame is already boxed, but I do plan on 700+ rwhp so I would like it to be as stiff as possible. I don't want it to crack due to placing gussets in the wrong place tho.
I will see if I can a bit to modify the rendering.
Josh,
I don't want to be a Debbie downer as this project looks great especially the white/gold.
IMO if you are going that hard with the HP/TQ you will twist the car hard and unlatch the doors upon launch. Eventually, something will stress bend and break..frame body etc.... I've witnessed that on a vert that hooked up well. Just not enough support on a vert without the steel roof. Even a steel roof car would need additional support at that HP/TQ level.
You will need to reinforce the shzit out of the stock frame. The box section alone isn't enough. I am sure this subject has been approached many times. Google....
The trick would be to find the OEM frames stress points and triangulate to include the front clip off the firewall. I'd think with that HP/torque goal you'll need significant full-on horizontal X-bracing and gussets. But that's a PITA as the X will need to be removable for service access. And it's likely you'll just pop the X brace mounts and gussets off the OEM frame as its too thin. It will pull the welds out first.
Might think about a ready-made custom frame designed to take it. Or lower your HP goals. Think about 700. That's 2x the design. Dont put a 4 story house on a 2 story foundation.
No Olds OEM rear end will handle 700HP/TQ.
Im not the resident expert on automotive frames and torsional stresses loads but I've been around fast cars and I am a mechanical engineer. Id think you'd be much farther ahead with a custom frame from a safety, time and strength perspective. Remember the OE frame isn't new. You're better off over vs under doing it. The frame is the foundation get it wrong and you'll regret it.
Josh,
I don't want to be a Debbie downer as this project looks great especially the white/gold.
IMO if you are going that hard with the HP/TQ you will twist the car hard and unlatch the doors upon launch. Eventually, something will stress bend and break..frame body etc.... I've witnessed that on a vert that hooked up well. Just not enough support on a vert without the steel roof. Even a steel roof car would need additional support at that HP/TQ level.
You will need to reinforce the shzit out of the stock frame. The box section alone isn't enough. I am sure this subject has been approached many times. Google....
The trick would be to find the OEM frames stress points and triangulate to include the front clip off the firewall. I'd think with that HP/torque goal you'll need significant full-on horizontal X-bracing and gussets. But that's a PITA as the X will need to be removable for service access. And it's likely you'll just pop the X brace mounts and gussets off the OEM frame as its too thin. It will pull the welds out first.
Might think about a ready-made custom frame designed to take it. Or lower your HP goals. Think about 700. That's 2x the design. Dont put a 4 story house on a 2 story foundation.
No Olds OEM rear end will handle 700HP/TQ.
Im not the resident expert on automotive frames and torsional stresses loads but I've been around fast cars and I am a mechanical engineer. Id think you'd be much farther ahead with a custom frame from a safety, time and strength perspective. Remember the OE frame isn't new. You're better off over vs under doing it. The frame is the foundation get it wrong and you'll regret it.
Steves 2 cents...
Not a debbie downer at all. I appreciate all the information and guidance I can get. I did look at the g-machine frames, but wasn't completely sold on them. I will take another look though. Either way I will keep going with it. My motto has always been if you're not breaking something then you're not trying hard enough.
Their website is down but I will look when it's back up. Just for everyone's reference in the future, I did email Hellwig about their "Frame FX" kit. They said it would be useless on an already boxed frame.
I did also email speedtech about their kit (https://www.speedtechperformance.com...rod/prd398.htm) and they said it would fit a convertible frame and provide more stiffness, so I might go that route or the HPI route if theirs work.
Josh,
Your concern will be torsional and lateral loads...you knew that You need X-bracing and gusseting to address torsional loads X, Y and Z axis. Some of this is already engineered within the vert boxing. Slapping a C channel to the box is effective more for lateral but the added weight Id think would break even or negate that gain. Some math and 3D modeling is needed to put logical data with all of this rather than net spewing. I know these frame vendors have already done this. Keep looking.
After getting the windshield off, one of the first things I noticed was how bad the lower windshield channel was. It was completely rusted through to the interior in some places, and was overall in just terrible shape. This is a super important area to have water-tight, as all the water from the windshield runs down here and would go straight into the dash and foot well. Fixing it was the first bit of sheet metal and body work I have done to the car. There was literally only 8" of the front of the dash that was actually still intact enough to be spot welded to the lower windshield channel.
So I set about cutting the dash out, then cutting out the lower windshield channel (which was so rusted through that most of it just fell out.
After that, it was just a matter of trimming up the replacement panel and welding in. First I tacked it in a few areas to get everything lined up, then I tacked between those, and so on, until I had a basically continuous weld. This was really slow, but helped keep burning through the metal to a bare minimum. Finally, I spent an hour or two grinding/sanding down the welds, and hit it with a coat of weld through primer. I am really proud of how it came out, and know it will definitely be 100x better than the rust/metal that was there. I even think it looks pretty good, but sadly all of this will be covered by trim when the car is done!
November 30th, 2019, 03:10 PM
