64 Starfire Conv't
May 4th, 2011, 08:38 AM
#1
Captain Starfire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
Posts: 1,669
64 Starfire Conv't
Folks,
I’m now in the process of taking possession of my “new” SF ragtop; it’s being shipped from NY to LA, and it’s taking a little while (too long) to arrive; but I’m promised I’ll have it by end of week (5/6/11).
I’ll eventually have quite a few questions and concerns I’m going to throw at you guys and gals, I’m sure, so I hope you’re up to the task! The last Olds I owned was my ‘73 Delta Royale 455 that I owned from ‘76 in to ’81 (now my age cover is blown); so I’m excited about getting back into the “Rocket” world again. I parted ways with a 72 Buick GS 455 I owned for over 25 years in 2005, and also owned 3 full-size ‘69 & ‘70 Chryslers at various times in the 80s.
As I mentioned in a Newbie post this morning, some of you may be familiar with the car if you’ve been shopping Oldses on the Web in the last few months; I first saw it on Auto Trader Classics, and subsequently on the seller’s site. It’s white w/ blue top and interior w/ about 44k miles on it. Off the bat, I had some questions about it that the owner (dealer or “collector”) couldn’t or didn’t answer, but I decided it looked good on line, so I took the plunge, sight unseen.
For one thing, it has no antenna. From some online help I got last week, I understand that if you got the power antenna (which this car never had) or if you got A/C (also never had), it would get the r. rear fender antenna. Otherwise, you’d get the r. front (manual) antenna. The best guess is that the r. front fender on this car was replaced at some point with a fender from a car with a rear antenna (and thus no front hole); but the mystery is the status of the current antenna! The radio plays (though not like a concert studio, according to the seller).
The other little issue, not unrelated to the antenna mystery, is the car’s pedigree. It has very little documentation from new. More recently it has spent time in NY and in PA; the seller supposedly bought it at Carlisle (auction?) last year. It doesn’t seem to have any rust issues at all, so either it spent most of its younger days in more southerly climes, or it was not driven in the winters. But I’m going to research its ownership history after I get the basics done (fluid changes, normal inspection, etc.).
Take a gander:
64 SF Conv't on Auto Trader Classics
If anybody out there knows anything about the car (or even some educated speculation), I’m all ears!
Thanks in advance,
I’m now in the process of taking possession of my “new” SF ragtop; it’s being shipped from NY to LA, and it’s taking a little while (too long) to arrive; but I’m promised I’ll have it by end of week (5/6/11).
I’ll eventually have quite a few questions and concerns I’m going to throw at you guys and gals, I’m sure, so I hope you’re up to the task! The last Olds I owned was my ‘73 Delta Royale 455 that I owned from ‘76 in to ’81 (now my age cover is blown); so I’m excited about getting back into the “Rocket” world again. I parted ways with a 72 Buick GS 455 I owned for over 25 years in 2005, and also owned 3 full-size ‘69 & ‘70 Chryslers at various times in the 80s.
As I mentioned in a Newbie post this morning, some of you may be familiar with the car if you’ve been shopping Oldses on the Web in the last few months; I first saw it on Auto Trader Classics, and subsequently on the seller’s site. It’s white w/ blue top and interior w/ about 44k miles on it. Off the bat, I had some questions about it that the owner (dealer or “collector”) couldn’t or didn’t answer, but I decided it looked good on line, so I took the plunge, sight unseen.
For one thing, it has no antenna. From some online help I got last week, I understand that if you got the power antenna (which this car never had) or if you got A/C (also never had), it would get the r. rear fender antenna. Otherwise, you’d get the r. front (manual) antenna. The best guess is that the r. front fender on this car was replaced at some point with a fender from a car with a rear antenna (and thus no front hole); but the mystery is the status of the current antenna! The radio plays (though not like a concert studio, according to the seller).
The other little issue, not unrelated to the antenna mystery, is the car’s pedigree. It has very little documentation from new. More recently it has spent time in NY and in PA; the seller supposedly bought it at Carlisle (auction?) last year. It doesn’t seem to have any rust issues at all, so either it spent most of its younger days in more southerly climes, or it was not driven in the winters. But I’m going to research its ownership history after I get the basics done (fluid changes, normal inspection, etc.).
Take a gander:
64 SF Conv't on Auto Trader Classics
If anybody out there knows anything about the car (or even some educated speculation), I’m all ears!
Thanks in advance,
May 8th, 2011, 06:09 PM
#3
Captain Starfire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
Posts: 1,669
Ttt
Thanks, Ben. Actually, I'm a little surprised that nobody chimed in that they've seen the car on line, but maybe it's b/c nobody reading these is really in the market, as it were. Auto Trader is a pretty popular site, however.
Another thing that scared me about it is that it looks a little bunged-up underneath, mostly in the front, like somebody ran it over a curb; can't see the oil pan or tranny pan; hope they were spared; but I've been assured it has absolutely no fluid leaks.
Finally, pray for me as the owner of a Slim Jim.... I have absolutely no experience with them -- and from what I've read, I'd be better off without any....always been a Turbo 400 or A-727 guy.
Still open to comments if anybody has a particularly discerning eye w/ '64 full-size Oldses.
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/cl...e-390366.xhtml
Another thing that scared me about it is that it looks a little bunged-up underneath, mostly in the front, like somebody ran it over a curb; can't see the oil pan or tranny pan; hope they were spared; but I've been assured it has absolutely no fluid leaks.
Finally, pray for me as the owner of a Slim Jim.... I have absolutely no experience with them -- and from what I've read, I'd be better off without any....always been a Turbo 400 or A-727 guy.
Still open to comments if anybody has a particularly discerning eye w/ '64 full-size Oldses.
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/cl...e-390366.xhtml
May 9th, 2011, 04:03 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Greater Philadelphia, PA area
Posts: 171
Keep the faith.
The Slim Jim's do get dogged a lot. Not sure what to say about that but look at it this way it won't be an every day driver and many folks have them and they work fine with a lot of TLC.
Search classic olds for many threads on good SlimJim information.
Don't for get to keep me posted on your new car.
Ben
The Slim Jim's do get dogged a lot. Not sure what to say about that but look at it this way it won't be an every day driver and many folks have them and they work fine with a lot of TLC.
Search classic olds for many threads on good SlimJim information.
Don't for get to keep me posted on your new car.
Ben
May 9th, 2011, 06:27 AM
#5
"me somebody" site member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,612
White is often chosen to hide a multitude of sins. If that car was not white from the factory, I would be very afraid
May 9th, 2011, 07:43 AM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Greater Philadelphia, PA area
Posts: 171
Can you clarify the color statement for us? I am not sure I understand considering any color over bad body work or imperfections is not good and any photos of any color car can be misleading.
May 9th, 2011, 08:19 AM
#7
"me somebody" site member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,612
I was simply stating my observation that cars with sub-standard bodywork and / or paintjobs are often painted white or other light colors (perhaps also light yellow or light blue, etc) because they are flatter / less reflective. Compare to black, which is known to be one of the most unforgiving colors for identifying imperfections. A '65 Starfire convertible I bought sight unseen about 10 years ago, originally dark blue, had been painted white to hide some very bad body work (think "bondo kid"). A friend of mine who saw the car right after I bought it put it this way: "thank God its white".
I agree 100% that photos can be deceiving. In the case of the car at issue in this thread, I noted some concerns the original poster had about the antenna being missing, a fender possibly being replaced, and undercarriage issues. It alll raises some red flags with me. While I am thus skeptical, I truly hope for his sake that the car turns out to be a gem.
May 10th, 2011, 12:30 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 196
Thanks, Ben. Actually, I'm a little surprised that nobody chimed in that they've seen the car on line, but maybe it's b/c nobody reading these is really in the market, as it were. Auto Trader is a pretty popular site, however.
Another thing that scared me about it is that it looks a little bunged-up underneath, mostly in the front, like somebody ran it over a curb; can't see the oil pan or tranny pan; hope they were spared; but I've been assured it has absolutely no fluid leaks.
Finally, pray for me as the owner of a Slim Jim.... I have absolutely no experience with them -- and from what I've read, I'd be better off without any....always been a Turbo 400 or A-727 guy.
Still open to comments if anybody has a particularly discerning eye w/ '64 full-size Oldses.
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/cl...e-390366.xhtml
Another thing that scared me about it is that it looks a little bunged-up underneath, mostly in the front, like somebody ran it over a curb; can't see the oil pan or tranny pan; hope they were spared; but I've been assured it has absolutely no fluid leaks.
Finally, pray for me as the owner of a Slim Jim.... I have absolutely no experience with them -- and from what I've read, I'd be better off without any....always been a Turbo 400 or A-727 guy.
Still open to comments if anybody has a particularly discerning eye w/ '64 full-size Oldses.
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/cl...e-390366.xhtml
Anyways I have found out that as long as the linkages are set PERFECT then the Slim Jim is a great transmission...Hopefully the delivery goes well and you will post pics, good or bad about your DEAL. If it goes great, then lots of praise. But if it turns sour, we would like to know why w/pics
.
May 11th, 2011, 05:00 AM
#11
Captain Starfire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
Posts: 1,669
Will check that linkage
The unavailability of the tranny filters is somewhat disturbing.... that's about as basic as you can get. Maybe we should get some sort of on-line petition going to Wix to re-produce.
Thanks for all the notes.... you can still see here at the seller's Web site.
Car is finally en route and will arrive (I've been told) Thursday or Friday.
The story will be revealed!
Thanks for all the notes.... you can still see here at the seller's Web site.
Car is finally en route and will arrive (I've been told) Thursday or Friday.
The story will be revealed!
May 11th, 2011, 10:27 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 196
Service Manual
BTW- I looked at the pics. That looks like a nice ride. I am trying to figure out why the air filter housing is not straight tho. I did notice that the right side valve cover has the incorrect pcv valve. It should have a valve with two hoses attached. One small vacuum line that runs to the back base of the carb and another bigger hose that runs to the side of the air filter housing. If I were to buy this, that is the first thing I would change. Fusick or USA parts has correct pcv valves
. Cool ride tho...
Last edited by trackz man; May 11th, 2011 at 10:34 AM.
May 11th, 2011, 12:50 PM
#13
Captain Starfire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
Posts: 1,669
You're right, trackz; in fact, I already put my hands on a full svc. manual + body manual reprint. I did see the post on rebuilding the filters.... that's really a last resort, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I've probably done as much when restoring my Buick. I'm praying for a good shift with some sweet-smelling ATF so I won't have to worry about ol' "Jim" for at least a while. I think we should petition Wix to make a run of those things, even if we have to pay a few bucks for them; we either pay in time or money.
I also noticed that wacky air filter housing. I asked the owner and he had no idea (I think I believe him), although he informed me that the previous owner replaced the carburetor; I don't know if the replacement carb has some sort of interference that prevents proper alignment; but that'll be one of the first things I check. The car does come with the original carb, at least; so I have my first project ready to go in the trunk! When I rebuild it (hopefully the kits are available), I'm certainly going to get the PVC system back the way it was from the factory.
At this stage in my learning curve, I wasn't sure whether all 64s had PCVs, since I know around this time the PCV appeared; I figured (probably erroneously) that it may have appeared in CA cars before the 49-state ones. Don't the 63s have road draft tubes rather than PCVs?
Anyhow, I'm going to get into that in separate future threads when the car finally arrives and I can actually pop the hood.
Thanks for the discerning eye.... those are the types of comments I'm trying to elicit.
You definitely want to get a service/shop manual. It will be like your "bible" for your car. I have two. One is at work and one is at home. There are several forums on this trans-unlikely to find a trans filter. I have three transmissions that I am going to "rebuild" the filters- There was a post a while back on this by someone about 5 months ago
BTW- I looked at the pics. That looks like a nice ride. I am trying to figure out why the air filter housing is not straight tho. I did notice that the right side valve cover has the incorrect pcv valve. It should have a valve with two hoses attached. One small vacuum line that runs to the back base of the carb and another bigger hose that runs to the side of the air filter housing. If I were to buy this, that is the first thing I would change. Fusick or USA parts has correct pcv valves. Cool ride tho...
I also noticed that wacky air filter housing. I asked the owner and he had no idea (I think I believe him), although he informed me that the previous owner replaced the carburetor; I don't know if the replacement carb has some sort of interference that prevents proper alignment; but that'll be one of the first things I check. The car does come with the original carb, at least; so I have my first project ready to go in the trunk! When I rebuild it (hopefully the kits are available), I'm certainly going to get the PVC system back the way it was from the factory.
At this stage in my learning curve, I wasn't sure whether all 64s had PCVs, since I know around this time the PCV appeared; I figured (probably erroneously) that it may have appeared in CA cars before the 49-state ones. Don't the 63s have road draft tubes rather than PCVs?
Anyhow, I'm going to get into that in separate future threads when the car finally arrives and I can actually pop the hood.
Thanks for the discerning eye.... those are the types of comments I'm trying to elicit.
You definitely want to get a service/shop manual. It will be like your "bible" for your car. I have two. One is at work and one is at home. There are several forums on this trans-unlikely to find a trans filter. I have three transmissions that I am going to "rebuild" the filters- There was a post a while back on this by someone about 5 months ago
BTW- I looked at the pics. That looks like a nice ride. I am trying to figure out why the air filter housing is not straight tho. I did notice that the right side valve cover has the incorrect pcv valve. It should have a valve with two hoses attached. One small vacuum line that runs to the back base of the carb and another bigger hose that runs to the side of the air filter housing. If I were to buy this, that is the first thing I would change. Fusick or USA parts has correct pcv valves
. Cool ride tho...
May 11th, 2011, 01:54 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 196
At this stage in my learning curve, I wasn't sure whether all 64s had PCVs, since I know around this time the PCV appeared; I figured (probably erroneously) that it may have appeared in CA cars before the 49-state ones. Don't the 63s have road draft tubes rather than PCVs?
Anyhow, I'm going to get into that in separate future threads when the car finally arrives and I can actually pop the hood.
Thanks for the discerning eye.... those are the types of comments I'm trying to elicit.
Anyhow, I'm going to get into that in separate future threads when the car finally arrives and I can actually pop the hood.
Thanks for the discerning eye.... those are the types of comments I'm trying to elicit.
Crap, you are right- The 63 have a draft tube- I was thinking about my 62 394. I would like to be the first to sign the petition for WIX...
May 13th, 2011, 10:37 AM
#15
Captain Starfire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
Posts: 1,669
Hey folks... got the car last night. Wanted to thank all for the comments & encouragement.... it's definitely as pretty as the pic's! It does have a new other mechanical issues, and some little untruths that were told; but I'm going to try and work with the seller to settle things. Now if I only can get used to my garage smelling like a Conoco Station.
May 13th, 2011, 12:14 PM
#17
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,327
I'm thinking a 63 should also have that weird PCV valve and that 62 was last year for 49-state road draft tube. You could theoretically install the CA PCV system on this car provided you can find a vacuum port on the carb's throttle plate big enough for it.
But yes, you do need some type of better crankcase ventilation on that engine, otherwise you'll end up with oil drip all over the valve cover and timing cover. Right now it will vent, just not very efficiently.
To put the OE 1964 non-CA type PCV back, you'll need: the PCV valve itself, the bent steel tube from aircleaner snout to PCV valve, the rubber connector sleeve that hooks them together (can be made from a piece of heater hose in a pinch), and the small vacuum hose from the small PCV nipple to the rear of carb throttle plate. I never thought the thing worked all that efficiently, but I guess the engineers thought it did. I won't attempt to explain how it works here. Like a lot of other early-60s Oldsmobile gadgets, it works off FM.
A 4GC kit should be easy enough to find. If not, send it to Don Monroe in WA for a first-class rebuild. The man understands balky 4GC's and can usually make them behave. Be very aware that after 45+ years, a 4GC inlet fitting is going to be prone to strip its threads.
Make sure what carb has been installed too. If it's another Olds 4GC, all should be golden. If it's had an Edelbrock or AFB put on, odds are the transmission's TV linkage has been monkeyed with. Dave Holt (dlh61olds on AACA) had a small run of the TV linkage adjusting tools made; would suggest you and anyone else with a Slim Jim car check and see if he still has any of them. They are worth the $35 he was asking for them in spite of being only a simple piece of bent metal.
But yes, you do need some type of better crankcase ventilation on that engine, otherwise you'll end up with oil drip all over the valve cover and timing cover. Right now it will vent, just not very efficiently.
To put the OE 1964 non-CA type PCV back, you'll need: the PCV valve itself, the bent steel tube from aircleaner snout to PCV valve, the rubber connector sleeve that hooks them together (can be made from a piece of heater hose in a pinch), and the small vacuum hose from the small PCV nipple to the rear of carb throttle plate. I never thought the thing worked all that efficiently, but I guess the engineers thought it did. I won't attempt to explain how it works here. Like a lot of other early-60s Oldsmobile gadgets, it works off FM.
A 4GC kit should be easy enough to find. If not, send it to Don Monroe in WA for a first-class rebuild. The man understands balky 4GC's and can usually make them behave. Be very aware that after 45+ years, a 4GC inlet fitting is going to be prone to strip its threads.
Make sure what carb has been installed too. If it's another Olds 4GC, all should be golden. If it's had an Edelbrock or AFB put on, odds are the transmission's TV linkage has been monkeyed with. Dave Holt (dlh61olds on AACA) had a small run of the TV linkage adjusting tools made; would suggest you and anyone else with a Slim Jim car check and see if he still has any of them. They are worth the $35 he was asking for them in spite of being only a simple piece of bent metal.
Last edited by rocketraider; May 13th, 2011 at 12:20 PM.
May 13th, 2011, 12:44 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 196
Rochester 4GC
Don Monroe was great to deal with. I had a 4GC recently rebuilt and just bolted it on and have not made not a single adjustment to it yet. His number is 253-212-8478. I would refer to him as the 4GC guru- In my opinion. He is located in Tacoma, WA.
I am going to have him rebuild another one for me by years end for the 63 Starfire Coupe...
I am going to have him rebuild another one for me by years end for the 63 Starfire Coupe...
May 17th, 2011, 12:01 PM
#19
Captain Starfire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ponchatoula, LA
Posts: 1,669
Carb fine
Glenn et al,
The air filter ***'y had simply been installed wrong.... no carburetor rebuild needed for now!
I will follow up in another thread about what else I've found mechanically....some pretty far out (such as no air filter element in canister!).
Thanks again for all the great input and advice to this old-Olds novice! Here's the stuff I know I'm missing thus far:
o Factory jack + spare
o License plate lamp assembly
o Complete PCV setup
I don't see anybody reproducing any of this stuff, so I'm looking for good (at least restorable) originals, if anybody can help. Pls. PM me, and I'm going to add a note to my blurb in the "parts wanted" area.
As you know, the antenna is missing; but I'm not going to fool with that at this point.
Here is my new baby sitting in her new home, with her new siblings. More to follow....
The air filter ***'y had simply been installed wrong.... no carburetor rebuild needed for now!
I will follow up in another thread about what else I've found mechanically....some pretty far out (such as no air filter element in canister!).
Thanks again for all the great input and advice to this old-Olds novice! Here's the stuff I know I'm missing thus far:
o Factory jack + spare
o License plate lamp assembly
o Complete PCV setup
I don't see anybody reproducing any of this stuff, so I'm looking for good (at least restorable) originals, if anybody can help. Pls. PM me, and I'm going to add a note to my blurb in the "parts wanted" area.
As you know, the antenna is missing; but I'm not going to fool with that at this point.
Here is my new baby sitting in her new home, with her new siblings. More to follow....
I'm thinking a 63 should also have that weird PCV valve and that 62 was last year for 49-state road draft tube. You could theoretically install the CA PCV system on this car provided you can find a vacuum port on the carb's throttle plate big enough for it.
But yes, you do need some type of better crankcase ventilation on that engine, otherwise you'll end up with oil drip all over the valve cover and timing cover. Right now it will vent, just not very efficiently.
To put the OE 1964 non-CA type PCV back, you'll need: the PCV valve itself, the bent steel tube from aircleaner snout to PCV valve, the rubber connector sleeve that hooks them together (can be made from a piece of heater hose in a pinch), and the small vacuum hose from the small PCV nipple to the rear of carb throttle plate. I never thought the thing worked all that efficiently, but I guess the engineers thought it did. I won't attempt to explain how it works here. Like a lot of other early-60s Oldsmobile gadgets, it works off FM.
A 4GC kit should be easy enough to find. If not, send it to Don Monroe in WA for a first-class rebuild. The man understands balky 4GC's and can usually make them behave. Be very aware that after 45+ years, a 4GC inlet fitting is going to be prone to strip its threads.
Make sure what carb has been installed too. If it's another Olds 4GC, all should be golden. If it's had an Edelbrock or AFB put on, odds are the transmission's TV linkage has been monkeyed with. Dave Holt (dlh61olds on AACA) had a small run of the TV linkage adjusting tools made; would suggest you and anyone else with a Slim Jim car check and see if he still has any of them. They are worth the $35 he was asking for them in spite of being only a simple piece of bent metal.
But yes, you do need some type of better crankcase ventilation on that engine, otherwise you'll end up with oil drip all over the valve cover and timing cover. Right now it will vent, just not very efficiently.
To put the OE 1964 non-CA type PCV back, you'll need: the PCV valve itself, the bent steel tube from aircleaner snout to PCV valve, the rubber connector sleeve that hooks them together (can be made from a piece of heater hose in a pinch), and the small vacuum hose from the small PCV nipple to the rear of carb throttle plate. I never thought the thing worked all that efficiently, but I guess the engineers thought it did. I won't attempt to explain how it works here. Like a lot of other early-60s Oldsmobile gadgets, it works off FM.
A 4GC kit should be easy enough to find. If not, send it to Don Monroe in WA for a first-class rebuild. The man understands balky 4GC's and can usually make them behave. Be very aware that after 45+ years, a 4GC inlet fitting is going to be prone to strip its threads.
Make sure what carb has been installed too. If it's another Olds 4GC, all should be golden. If it's had an Edelbrock or AFB put on, odds are the transmission's TV linkage has been monkeyed with. Dave Holt (dlh61olds on AACA) had a small run of the TV linkage adjusting tools made; would suggest you and anyone else with a Slim Jim car check and see if he still has any of them. They are worth the $35 he was asking for them in spite of being only a simple piece of bent metal.
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