viper771

Since I just did a post about my carb rebuild, I figured I would ask some questions related to that. My carb didn't have the filter where the fuel inlet is located. Also, I don't have the orig inlet fittings (just a fitting for where a rubber hose can attach to the carb inlet).

I wanted to ask you guys with 61-64? Olds 88s/Starfires what kind of fuel inlet/fuel filter is supposed to be there? I bought an inlet filter spring, some bronze filters, and a fuel inlet fitting from Mikes Carb parts but I don't think the inlet fitting is right. I just got all new stainless fuel lines from inline tube and I FINALLY found an orig fuel filter housing (that hangs off the oil filler pipe). I wanted to get everything back the way it was so I can get rid of the fuel hose that is on the carb side of the fuel pump. Any help on the size of the fittings or what they look like would help. Same for the inlet fuel filter. Right now there is just a piece of brass mesh kind of acting as a filter in there. It is kind of hard to find pictures of what fittings I need to get the orig fuel filter housing to work since most cars I have found in the new either don't have the orig fuel filter housing/ steel fuel lines anymore or they have the air cleaner in the way..


Any help would be awesome and much appreciated!!

droldsmorland

Can’t guide you with specifics about the exact set up. I can tell you to lose the brass sintered style filter. Their very restrictive. You should be able to obtain a paper element style.
Please post pictures of your set up. Hopefully someone with an original 88 can post pics of a factory set up. Did you do a google search? Wonderful tool. The service manual can be some help it may have pictures. Motors and Chilton’s. Did you inquire Year one, Fusick's? There is a shop that specializes in these cars. I found it on line a few years ago. He had quite a few parts cars in his own personal bone yard. I wanta say either Calif or Arizona memory is the second thing to go....Google...Google Find a car club for early 88/98s
Post the carb numbers.

viper771

I've done a LOT of searching. problem is.. there are a ton of different sizes. The service manuals don't give you much specific info...but that is how I found out there was even an inlet filter to begin with. I will see if I can dig up some pictures I saved so I can show everyone what I am talking about.

I do know how the setup is supposed to go.. but it is just hard to know exactly what to buy when it comes to fittings. The main thing is the just fuel inlet on the carb and the type of filter I need to go behind it. Places like Fusicks don't sell such fittings. I did look at USA parts supply but got kind of lost since there were a number of different fittings. I have seen a lot of different examples, which is the problem. The carb is a Rochester 4GC off my 62 Starfire. The carb # is 7020950.

I am going to check with the AACA.org too since there are a few guys on there I need to ask some questions too. Thanks for the help

Octania

Since I just did a post about my 61-64? Olds 88s/Starfire carb rebuild
My carb didn't have the filter where the fuel inlet is located.
Also, I don't have the orig inlet fittings (just a fitting for where a rubber hose can attach to the carb inlet).

I bought an inlet filter spring, some bronze filters, and a fuel inlet fitting from Mikes Carb parts but I don't think the inlet fitting is right.
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I believe that fitting retains the sintered bronze filter and sports a std issue brake and fuel line type inverted flare fitting on the outer side.


I just got all new stainless fuel lines from inline tube and I FINALLY found an orig fuel filter housing (that hangs off the oil filler pipe).
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I'd be interested to know how that line fits, maybe they got one right? Oh, yeah your filter may be a sediment bowl secured to the oil fill tube. I had to find one of those a while back because you simply could not find a proper 1966 L69 sediment bowl.


I wanted to get everything back the way it was so I can get rid of the fuel hose that is on the carb side of the fuel pump. Any help on the size of the fittings or what they look like would help.
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Great idea. Rubber hose in the pressurized side should be avoided if possible.
The fittings should be all the same 5/16" inverted flare for the lines, and whatever NPT size your sediment bowl and pump are.


Same for the inlet fuel filter. Right now there is just a piece of brass mesh kind of acting as a filter in there. It is kind of hard to find pictures of what fittings I need to get the orig fuel filter housing to work since most cars I have found in the new either don't have the orig fuel filter housing/ steel fuel lines anymore or they have the air cleaner in the way..
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Look for carbs for sale, e.g. on ePay... should show what fittings to expect. I recall in searching for an exact one of these carbs, that the inlet fitting style, size, and location have about 4 or 5 variations.

viper771

Thanks for the info Octania! The inlet fitting for the carb does retain a filter and spring. I think my problem is the fitting I bought needs another fitting in front of that to hook the stainless lines up to. Right now I am using fuel injector hose (replaced anything rubber) which works but I wanted things to look correct. The fuel pump has brass fittings coming out of it so the stainless lines can hook it them (they will not go directly into the fuel pump or external fuel filter). The external fuel filter has some brass fittings on it right now too.

I have added some pictures at what I am looking for.

In the first 2 pictures, you can see the the metal fuel line coming up from the fuel pump... then going into the external filter that is hanging off the oil filler tube.. then the fuel line is going under the air cleaner into the carb.

The fittings I am curious about are the 2 on the external fuel filter (the one I bought had fittings but not sure if they are correct) and the the fittings on the carb inlet (and the fuel filter behind the intet, what size it is and what does that look like).

The last 2 pictures: The pict of the carb is basically what my carb looks like. I am trying to see if that is the kind of fitting I need for the carb inlet and what kind of filter should I use behind it (if not the bronze one).

The last pict is from one of our members (Don) who just rebuilt his carb too. I am trying to see if that is how the fuel lines hook up under the air cleaner (my stainless lines I just got look exactly like this). If that is the case I need the right inlet fitting and also the other fitting that goes to the fuel line.


The manuals for these cars aren't as good as say the tri 5 chevy manuals or my 68 442 manuals. There is no assembly manual.. just kind of a mix of shop manual and assembly manual. The assembly part does not go into a huge amount of depth (esp when you are trying to hook up options your car didn't have in the first place) so it makes things kind of hard to figure out if you don't know much about a particular car.

I hope that kind of clears up what I am looking for. What inlet fitting do I need, is that how the fuel lines hook to the inlet, and what kind of filter am I looking for to go behind the inlet if it isn't the bronze kind. It is like doing a puzzle

droldsmorland

Octania good idea with evilbay. Viper some of the better known carb rebuilders may have what you need or a name of someone good with 4G and 4GCs, (networking). What about an exploded view that usually comes in the rebuild kits. That will show you the correct parts and even will have part #s
Theres a place in Marysville/Yuba city that does the older pre-Qjet carbs. I think it’s called simply The Carb Shop. He has done Qjets for me with great success. There is another Carb Shop in southern Calif too. JET may be helpful too. Recently there was a guy advertising cars found in a private bone yard that has many early 60s cars. Search around for bone yards that still have 60 cars in them. You might get lucky?
Viper that filter housing in the air horn in the pics looks like it should accept a standard short paper element style filter and accompanying spring? That brass 45 will be hard to find. "Obsolete Auto Parts" may help here?
One place to look for fittings is find a Parker or Swagelok dealer in your area. Or a company which makes hydraulic lines. They have many odd ball fittings or again may have a lead on where to find them. The external filter you’re referring to is a sediment bowl not a filter exactly. Those fittings may be easier to find as many cars had them up until late 60. Many industrial engines used them beyond that...another source to look. Onan, Kohler generator dealers will have NOS parts like that. But you’d need a part# or an actual part to cross-ref.

Octania

I will defer to others more schooled in the pre-QJet era on the filter, if any, within the carb. That 4th pic with the 45 degree adapter to inverted flare line is a new one to me. The like looks almost like 3/8 rather than 5/16".

As for the fittings on the glass bowl fuel filter... well, if they accept your steel lines, then they must be correct I would say... otherwise dash to the auto parts or hardware store, and get the correct ones. Should be a straight-thru type I believe.

Got any close pix of your glass bowl fuel filter? I know the **** that secures the bail wire varies a bit, I think the Olds version has a larger finely knurled ****.

Ozzie

If I'm reading your application correctly, it's a 1962 Starfire. The Rochester carburetor book says that the 4GC carburetor number for it should be 7020950 if no A/C, and 7020955 with A/C. The parts breakdown shows a "strainer - fuel inlet", part number 7003083, just inside of the (inlet ) "strainer nut", part number 7002862. I don't have the service manual for 1962, but I do have the 1961 manual. It doesn't have any photos of the engine compartment. The carburetor section shows a filter screen, which agrees with the Rochester carburetor book. These would stop "big" pieces, but usually resulted in the "small" pieces accumulating on the bottom of the float bowls. Newer models used the bronze or paper filters in place of the screen. There was also another screen (part number 7006079) just preceeding the needle seat. There was no filter in the fuel pump as in older models. Some (not Olds) service books say that some 1962-1957 models used an AC GF-124 filter. Others say that a glass bowl filter with a ceramic element was used.

viper771

Ozzie:

Yep, it is a 62 Starfire. Looks like I have the right carb at least. I wonder if I have the orig strainer in there (that is the bronze screen that I mentioned). It doesn't work very well. The 62 manual basically says to refer back to the 61 manual in most of this case anyway. The screen is still OK at the needle seat area. I saw it when I was rebuilding my carb. If I were to use a paper filter instead of the crappy bronze screen, would I use the smaller (short) version or the longer one? I think my bronze ones I bought are too big to fit in there. Thanks for the part numbers!! That should narrow down my search a bit.

As for the glass bowl filter, a ceramic element was used. USA parts supply still sells them but they are kind of expensive for what they are (I think 40 bucks?? maybe more). I bought a paper one for a few bucks. I am just using a universal inline fuel filter between the pump and carb now. The whole setup would just look a lot better with the orig style metal lines and glass bowl type filter.

Octania: I can take a pict of my glass bowl filter. There is a metal brace that is screwed into the top of the filter, and you secure that to the oil filler pipe via large radiator hose wire clamp. The fittings that came on it when I got it were not orig (one was a 45 degree, the other was a fitting that would allow a rubber hose to be connected). The holes that accept the fittings are quite small in the glass bowl filter ( I want to say around 1/4 in in diameter if that).. and the brass fittings convert them to a larger fitting that would allow the metal lines to screw into (3/8 sounds about right, they are quite large).

droldsmorland: Believe me I check ebay a lot and use the site for reference a LOT lol. The rebuild kit did have an exploded drawing of the carb (which is how I figured out that there was supposed to be a filter, spring, couple gaskets in the inlet area) but that was about all the info it gave me. I will look into other places and see what I can find. I never have seen an inlet filter before, so that is kind of why I was confused about all that stuff. I will check around and see what I can find. It would be nice to have everything like it is supposed to be

droldsmorland

Someone a bit better versed on the G & GCs will have to chime in as to whether or not theres a filter in the airhorn or not? It looks like it to me. I can ask my old AC Delco Delphi buddy who basically was one of the gents incharge of the Q jet program. Hell he might even have parts. He has a ton of NOS Qjet stuff. Ill inquire for you tomorrow.

viper771

That would be awesome!!!! I would REALLY appreciate it. There should be a filter in the airhorn. Prob is.. not sure which inlet nut is supposed to be there, or the size of the filter. At least I have the filter spring and a couple gaskets

After I get the correct inlet, I will just need to track down the right fittings for the fuel line and I will be in business

viper771

Here are a couple of picts of my fuel lines with the glass bowl type filter. The metal line on the left goes down to the fuel pump. On the left side of the glass bowl filter, that is where the weird inverted 45 degree brass fitting goes. On the right side of the glass bowl filter there is just a straight fitting.. from there that will go into the carb. Either that fuel line screws directly into the carb inlet fitting I am looking for... or I need another inverted 45 degree brass fitting.

Hopefully that gives you guys an idea of what I am talking about. Right now, I have half of a steel line coming up from the carb (someone cut the orig line in half)... with some fuel injector line clamped onto that... to a basic inline filter, then the injector line going to a hose fitting at the inlet (see first pict, this is before I put in the new lines/filter so they look cruddy).

I think I tracked down the right inlet fitting... I suspect I need the short paper filter. Now just need to track down a few brass fittings and I will be good to go

Oldskeeper

OK the line you purchassed from inline is a copy of my original 63 line that a friend sent to them to get made for his cars.
The 62 has the fuel filter clamped to the oil breather tube and the set-up you have is correct, your fuel line comes up and is split to allow the filter to fit then carries on to the carb. You don't require a screen or brass pressed filter in the front of your carb as the particulate will be stopped in the filter, on the 63-64 the filter is on the fuel pump and the line is direct to the carb. If I get some time I'll take a pic of my starfire set up as it is an original that hasn't been screwed with.
Steve

Octania

Here are a couple of picts of my fuel lines with the glass bowl type filter. The metal line on the left goes down to the fuel pump. On the left side of the glass bowl filter, that is where the weird inverted 45 degree brass fitting goes.
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OK, sure, that looks good in my very limited '62 SFire experience. I see the large diameter finely knurled bail securing nut below the glass bowl. Other brands often have a smaller lobed nut instead. That glass bowl fuel filter [GBFF] is the closest thing to a '66 L69 tri-carb unit before the repro's were made. Not sure, but I think the L69 GBFF used 1/4" NPT threads, whereas yours are obviously smaller which makes them the more common 1/8" NPT threads.
That 45 degree 3/8"? inverted flare to NPT fitting you show on the observer's left [car's right] of your GBFF looks like what you need at the carb also... perhaps with different male pipe threads to match the carb fitting as seen in one of your earlier photos- not the one with a hose nipple on it.


On the right side of the glass bowl filter there is just a straight fitting.. from there that will go into the carb. Either that fuel line screws directly into the carb inlet fitting I am looking for... or I need another inverted 45 degree brass fitting.
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The other guy's photo you showed appeared to fit right, with a 45 degree fitting at the carb, between the steel line and the short, short fitting directly in the air horn. Can you just hold your steel line and GBFF assembly up and/or test fit to the engine, and see if the top end of the top line resides at a 45 degree angle up and back?

I might have one of the shorty short air horn fittings in a parts carb. Pre-QJet carb gurus should certainly have one.

Ozzie

[QUOTE=viper771;477178]Ozzie:

Yep, it is a 62 Starfire. Looks like I have the right carb at least. I wonder if I have the orig strainer in there (that is the bronze screen that I mentioned). It doesn't work very well. The 62 manual basically says to refer back to the 61 manual in most of this case anyway. The screen is still OK at the needle seat area. I saw it when I was rebuilding my carb. If I were to use a paper filter instead of the crappy bronze screen, would I use the smaller (short) version or the longer one? I think my bronze ones I bought are too big to fit in there. Thanks for the part numbers!! That should narrow down my search a bit.

As for the glass bowl filter, a ceramic element was used. USA parts supply still sells them but they are kind of expensive for what they are (I think 40 bucks?? maybe more). I bought a paper one for a few bucks. I am just using a universal inline fuel filter between the pump and carb now. The whole setup would just look a lot better with the orig style metal lines and glass bowl type filter.

My guess on the paper filter would be the short one, but that doesn't mean that any paper filter will fit where the screen was. I've tried that substitution before, and mine wouldn't work. It depends on how the airhorn's recess is made. Also, if the airhorn opening will accommodate the filter, perhaps the "strainer nut" will need to be changed to fit the paper filter. All these nuts were not the same. It may "turn out" that to get the tightest filter and the closest situation to "original" you may have to use the paper element glass bowl which you bought (in place of the ceramic one). The paper element should be a more efficient filter than screens, bronze, or ceramic ones.

viper771

My guess on the paper filter would be the short one, but that doesn't mean that any paper filter will fit where the screen was. I've tried that substitution before, and mine wouldn't work. It depends on how the airhorn's recess is made. Also, if the airhorn opening will accommodate the filter, perhaps the "strainer nut" will need to be changed to fit the paper filter. All these nuts were not the same. It may "turn out" that to get the tightest filter and the closest situation to "original" you may have to use the paper element glass bowl which you bought (in place of the ceramic one). The paper element should be a more efficient filter than screens, bronze, or ceramic ones. [/QUOTE]


Good point Ozzie! I guess maybe fuel was a bit more "dirty" back then.. so you would need the glass bowl filter (with ceramic element), plus the inlet filter, and all screens inside the float bowl. I just figured the inlet filter would help keep crap out of carb better I guess I will figure it out soon. I still need to find some of those inverted 45 brass elbows and the inlet fitting. At least I could get that squared away.

viper771

I will test fit the line as soon as I get a chance to see if everything lines up Hopefully it does... lol I see what you were saying about what held the glass bowl to the housing. I don't have any experience with any other fuel filters so I just figured they all looked like that.

viper771

That is pretty cool Steve!! I would appreciate the picts!! Now I just need to find some fittings.

Next project is going to be trying to figure out how to set up a 63 PCV system on my car since I have tons of blowby coming out of the downdraft tube and also the oil filler cap

Oldskeeper

That's easy, get a 63-64 air filter cover and the piping from the pcv valve, the 63 is a rubber hose type and the 64 is a steel pipe with rubber ends. Add the vacuum line and you will be complete however you will still have blowby at the oil filler tube so make sure you have a good foam filter under the cap. Thats what I plan on adding to my wagon when I change everything over from my starfire.
Steve

viper771

I have an aircleaner off of a 63 or 64 Starfire. What line can I splice the vac line into for the PCV valve? I will just have to find a rubber hose that will work. I think the orig rubber hoses were formed, but I won't be too picky about it. I haven't seen any of the steel type for sale but I have seen them on cars before.

I guess we can't avoid the blowby lol. When my hood is up, it looks like a steam locomotive with the puffs of blowby coming out of the oil filler tube.

Ozzie

I guess we can't avoid the blowby lol. When my hood is up, it looks like a steam locomotive with the puffs of blowby coming out of the oil filler tube.[/QUOTE]

The change to PCV will probably help. If you haven't already explored the possibility of using a higher viscosity engine oil, you might also consider it. If the ambient temperatures allow for the use of a more viscous engine oil, it would also likely reduce the amount of visible fumes.

viper771

I think I am using 10w30 now.. what would you recommend? I would never drive the car in the winter anyway. As it is now, it is just a garage car

Ozzie

In 1962 10W-30 was the correct viscosity recommended by Oldsmobile for operation above 0 degrees F when choosing a multi-viscosity oil. However, since then engine oil technology has improved, and today there are other viscosity oils which did not exist in 1962. For example, in 1973 Oldsmobile recommended the use of 20W-20, 10W-30, 10W-40, 20W-40, and 20W-50 for ambient temperatures above 20 degrees F. They also said that SAE 30 oil could be used above 40 degrees F. Ohio can get cold in the winter, but if you don't use the car during the winter it would not be a factor. Two of the disadvantages of higher viscosity oils are turning the engine with the starter when cold and initial oil circulation before the engine warms. I live in S.E. Louisiana. We seldom get any temperatures below 32 degrees F anymore. When it does happen, it doesn't last very long. I have been using 20W-50. For me, it works throughout the year. You could try a viscosity greater than 10W-30 and observe the results. If it proves to be too viscous, you could choose something "thinner". There is also a 15W-50 viscosity available which wasn't in 1973, and would also be a possibility. Anything more viscous than 10W-30 would probably reduce the visible fumes. I have a 1955 Olds which has an older version of the engine you have. I use the 20W-50 in it all year. There are no visible fumes at the oil filler, and only an occasional bit from the road draft tube during the hottest part of the summer. One day I may also add the PCV system to it if I can make an inoffensive design.

viper771

HUmmm I will have to keep that in mind. I will prob do an oil change in the spring. If things keep up the way they are with this car, I will prob never get to drive it lol. But, at least I am learning a lot from it, which is what is important Thanks for the info!