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Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
455 Oldsmobile Build
I recently built this 455 Olds, modified factory crank 4.155 X 4.251, CP pistons, 10.4 compression, 232 @ .050 Redline hyd roller, Morel lifters, Harlan Sharp rockers, restricted Smith Bros .080 Chromoly pushrods, Ported Edelbrock heads, factory W-30 intake, full restoration on that, Q-Jet carb, modified Moroso oil pan, Melling oil pump, custom fabricated oil pick up, Maxima 10-40 oil, Wix filter. Some pictures. We also machined the factory Olds crank for a pilot bearing seeing the engine uses a Manuel trans.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; October 18th, 2020 at 03:59 AM.
Vortec, thanks for linking to the car's build thread! Not sure how I missed that one. I love to watch these projects come together. That mill should be Bad A$$ in that ride. I'm in Parker, so maybe I'll see it on the road in the not too distant future.
I've got a spare 455 just hanging around, waiting for (my) retirement. Maybe we'll be talking about it together in a few years
Stock rods? Do you build your own Qjets? That is one thing we agree on, they are a good carb and obviously it is tuned right to make over 500 hp. The stock style intake is a weird choice unless hood clearance is the issue with aluminum heads.
The engine looks great, looks like a good match for the car ( which alsolooks great)
is the water pump bypass neck polished or chrome? Ive never seen one like that
Im curious, what gains could one expect from say going to a performer, or performer RPM?
i wonder because if its peak hp at say 4500 rpm it may not be that useful in everyday day driving but would be beneficial in a competition environment.
I started thinking about this more When a i got another DD a couple years ago that makes lots of hp n torque starting at 2500ish i notice everything else i drive now seems slow unless im shifting at redline (which happens a lot too just not in dd situations)
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by RetroRanger
The engine looks great, looks like a good match for the car ( which alsolooks great)
is the water pump bypass neck polished or chrome? Ive never seen one like that
Im curious, what gains could one expect from say going to a performer, or performer RPM?
i wonder because if its peak hp at say 4500 rpm it may not be that useful in everyday day driving but would be beneficial in a competition environment.
I started thinking about this more When a i got another DD a couple years ago that makes lots of hp n torque starting at 2500ish i notice everything else i drive now seems slow unless im shifting at redline (which happens a lot too just not in dd situations)
Not sure the difference, I did a iron head 455 a while that made 560 with a Performer RPM, street engine.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Stock rods? Do you build your own Qjets? That is one thing we agree on, they are a good carb and obviously it is tuned right to make over 500 hp. The stock style intake is a weird choice unless hood clearance is the issue with aluminum heads.
Worked over Eagle H beam rods. Harold Bettes Q-Jet. The customer has a factory style W-30 hood.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by Battenrunner
Wow, congrats on the build to You and Dave. 525hp definitely surpassed expectations with that intake being the limiting factor.
The ported e-brock heads and the right cam choice and grinder were both perfect!
of course, the machinist and builder obviously plays a part...
I am excited to see if you can squeeze a bit more out of it as well!
Thanks for taking the time to provide me with the parts and guidance. Theres been zero tuning so far, and I'am not sure I want to spend any more time on it.
You do know that VORTECPRO also saved us from the dumpster-fire that we had going on with our Batten-headed engine, right?
I personally witnessed the heads; they are stock Valve Edelbrocks with mild port work and corrections to the Seats and Valve faces.
Don’t believe the hype that the guy running the CNC machine at Edelbrock Or ANY aftermarket head company actually ever checks the guides, seats Or valves for concentricity and sealing. There is power hidden there once corrected.
The level of detail required to take a typical build from 480hp to 525-540hp is big.
My eyes have been opened by Vortecpro and there is no one else I will trust any future Engine work to.
As for a carburetor, if I had stayed that way for induction, no one else’s carb besides Harold Bettes would satisfy me. Harold is another that I feel very blessed to call a friend.
That is a big problem with just about anything aftermarket, nothing is bolt on. Glad he took the time to check the heads over. That "Assembler" has brought multiple parts to the market that were not available and never would have been available if he didn't make the effort. This "Machine Shop" has brought 0 new parts or Olds specific knowledge to the Olds community, other than machine shop services and racing knowledge, not saying he doesn't have those. Pretty sure there is one in every town across North America with the same service. I have one 20 minutes away, they have built one 455 at least, as well.
First, he did way more than check the heads over. The seats and valves had to be cut.
Second, assembler and builder/machinist are completely different types of people and operate differently. An assembler relies on a machinist to hold tolerances and clean parts out well so that they can bolt it all together.
a builder/machinist must machine all the parts to work perfectly together and be able to develop and determine the Best combination for power and to meet the customer’s end goal and budget parameters.
And no, there are very few machinists at this caliber across North America....
I dealt with some of the “best” in Denver and their work was total crap compared to VORTECPRO.
Third, as for bringing parts to market, good for him and the Olds community. This also helps the assembler to sell more Olds engines and focus on them alone, something that VORTECPRO doesn’t choose to do.
Why does every thread in here turn into a pissing contest over the same two people, and it's not always started/continued by those same two people? It's already been an incredibly negative year, how about we leave out the cheap shots, all try to learn, go test some things, and make everybody better together? Everything isn't a measuring contest, so the micrometers can go away and the zippers closed. If people have a problem with each other, let them address it directly.
I respect the people that go out and do anything for Oldsmobile - building bad *** engines and showing what is possible with engine combinations, getting much-needed new parts from manufacturers (or developing the parts themselves), or putting effort into promoting our obsolete brand. I've learned a lot and been motivated by what some of these people do.
Thanks....customer picked the paint intake and valve covers.
The intake he chose in hindsight may be the most brilliant move of all....
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
The stock style intake is a weird choice unless hood clearance is the issue with aluminum heads.
Originally Posted by RetroRanger
Im curious, what gains could one expect from say going to a performer, or performer RPM?
Originally Posted by Battenrunner
Wow, congrats on the build to You and Dave. 525hp definitely surpassed expectations with that intake being the limiting factor.
Originally Posted by 83hurstguy
Nice build, great power with the stock intake manifold.
I recently read on another forum about a similarly built Olds 455. The shop was desperately trying to get it past 495 HP. The owner of the shop suggested removing the Edelbrock performer... and putting on its original Oldsmobile aluminum intake, Then they saw 525 HP.
Something about the factory intake having "bigger runners" that flowed better ? if that makes sense to you guys ?
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Cutlassefi works with Champion Race heads on his builds, again, a top notch machine shop. Again, not knocking Vortecpro's machine shop or those abilities, along with racing. He doesn't even personally own an Olds powered car, has the resources, chooses not too. Obviously the BBC is his passion, everything else, including the Olds V8 is second place.
Yes the production BBC is my passion, but I also have raced a 1970 W-30 in NHRA D/SA in the 80s. I race a F/SA 1971 Buick GS in NHRA stock today. I race other cars as well. But I like engines, all engines, I'd run a AMC 360 in stock too. This above
Olds build would easily run 10s in my Buick, I might have to build one just for fun.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by 69CSHC
The intake he chose in hindsight may be the most brilliant move of all....
I recently read on another forum about a similarly built Olds 455. The shop was desperately trying to get it past 495 HP. The owner of the shop suggested removing the Edelbrock performer... and putting on its original Oldsmobile aluminum intake, Then they saw 525 HP.
Something about the factory intake having "bigger runners" that flowed better ? if that makes sense to you guys ?
No..........but no Olds expert here. I do know one thing, there was a Brandon Bakies 455 stocker build I posted a while back I thought made around 507 HP, I couldn't see why my build would make less but really had no idea.
Now, I would run an AMC V8, those dog leg heads were way ahead of their time, too bad they ran awful Motorcraft carbs factory. There is a Javelin for sale locally. Do a thread on the Olds you raced back then, it is what this site is about, Oldsmobile and their awesome V8. Is there any merit on a stock intake out running a Performer, probably not on a BBO, a much taller and better intake. Pretty sure the runners are bigger, someone did some measurements on this site. On a SBO maybe, both are very similar in design.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; October 19th, 2020 at 06:08 PM.
Maybe the intake swap was just masking another adjustment that needed to be made...
The goal was 500 HP. Funny thing was while the owner was very impressed with the 525 HP he had them put back the performer supposedly because it looked better...
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Now, I would run an AMC V8, those dog leg heads were way ahead of their time, too bad they ran awful Motorcraft carbs factory. There is a Javelin for sale locally. Do a thread on the Olds you raced back then, it is what this site is about, Oldsmobile and their awesome V8. Is there any merit on a stock intake out running a Performer, probably not on a BBO, a much taller and better intake. Pretty sure the runners are bigger, someone did some measurements on this site. On a SBO maybe, both are very similar in design.
Maybe you can tell me whats so awesome about a production Olds 455? Is it the huge mains, big rod journals? Small bore long stroke? Port layout? Valve size? Oil system? Main saddles? Just curious.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; October 19th, 2020 at 06:32 PM.
That is a big problem with just about anything aftermarket, nothing is bolt on. Glad he took the time to check the heads over. That "Assembler" has brought multiple parts to the market that were not available and never would have been available if he didn't make the effort. This "Machine Shop" has brought 0 new parts or Olds specific knowledge to the Olds community, other than machine shop services and racing knowledge, not saying he doesn't have those. Pretty sure there is one in every town across North America with the same service. I have one 20 minutes away, they have built one 455 at least, as well.
Bernhard wrote:
I find it hard to believe that you have a machine shop at the level Mark's shop is 20 min away. Good machine shops are rare!
Mark brings a lot to Classic Oldsmobile in the way of engine building and suspension tuning expertise that crosses engine brand & make loyalty.
Last edited by Bernhard; October 19th, 2020 at 10:03 PM.
Why does every thread in here turn into a pissing contest over the same two people, and it's not always started/continued by those same two people? It's already been an incredibly negative year, how about we leave out the cheap shots, all try to learn, go test some things, and make everybody better together? Everything isn't a measuring contest, so the micrometers can go away and the zippers closed. If people have a problem with each other, let them address it directly.
I respect the people that go out and do anything for Oldsmobile - building bad *** engines and showing what is possible with engine combinations, getting much-needed new parts from manufacturers (or developing the parts themselves), or putting effort into promoting our obsolete brand. I've learned a lot and been motivated by what some of these people do.
The aftermarket intakes outperform the stock intake just some more than others. There has been lots of testing over the years, some dyno some track.
I have read that the aftermarket W30 intake does not flow as well as the original W30 but this is second hand info so take it as such.
Last edited by Bernhard; October 19th, 2020 at 07:55 PM.
They were fully ported, but not maxed out. Never flowed them.
Thanks. Point of clarification for me, by fully ported, but not maxed out, do you mean as much as you could do without moving ports/pushrods? Or something else? How big are the valves?
I agree with that, I would be proud to put this engine in any Olds.
Vortec what are you likely looking at when you fine tune it ? I'm thinking you already hit a homerun so guessing maybe another 25 HP tops as is, getting right around 550 HP ... Is that realistic ?
October 17th, 2020, 06:12 PM
