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Guys that is my whole point on the Edelbrock thread? For the $$$, I think one is better off using these with some work and still out run the OOTB Edelbrocks, and be less $$$.
That has been what people are doing with them. Unfortunately they need port work and quality components, also not cheap. The sale price is extremely tempting. The problem on say a 350 is the .090" cut needed to bring down the chamber to a stock CC. Now the intake and or head intake surface needs cut. Also it instantly needs an electric fuel pump on the 350, also not cheap for a decent one. That one set may have been a bad example and not what most of the new Edelbrock heads will be like. A couple of others tests show the new Edelbrock heads out performing the old, out of box.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; November 28th, 2022 at 12:53 PM.
Seeing the nice new Eddies with that pretty modern chamber and recess for fuel pump makes the SM a no go now. When is the new SB Eddie Gen 2 in 69cc chamber show up online I have yet to see it listed versus the BB version is listed at edelbrock ?
There are used 1st Edelbrocks on the market, which these are supposed to be a copy of. Hell, one guy spotted some in a freaking junkyard! But, some of y'all like the Chinese.....
That has been what people are doing with them. Unfortunately they need port work and quality components, also not cheap. The sale price is extremely tempting. The problem on say a 350 is the .090" cut needed to bring down the chamber to a stock CC. Now the intake and or head intake surface needs cut. Also it instantly needs an electric fuel pump on the 350, also not cheap for a decent one. That one set may have been a bad example and not what most of the new Edelbrock heads will be like. A couple of others tests show the new Edelbrock heads out performing the old, out of box.
Well I pulled the trigger and got a set, no brainer at that price with free shipping, I'm good with the heads and intake being a set for my 350, Rocket racing does the same thing. For me its time for my build to move along, the wait was killing me for the eddys, they don't even list a part number to pre order so who the hell no's when they will get it figured out.
Seeing the nice new Eddies with that pretty modern chamber and recess for fuel pump makes the SM a no go now. When is the new SB Eddie Gen 2 in 69cc chamber show up online I have yet to see it listed versus the BB version is listed at edelbrock ?
but how much will the edelbrocks be?
hard to say the speedmasters are a no go with they are only 1/3 the price....
but how much will the edelbrocks be?
hard to say the speedmasters are a no go with they are only 1/3 the price....
Apples and oranges. Speedmasters can be done to be a really decent cyl head. But the Edelbrocks are waaaay better out of the box.
A set of Edelbrocks are $2150.00.
Apples and oranges. Speedmasters can be done to be a really decent cyl head. But the Edelbrocks are waaaay better out of the box.
A set of Edelbrocks are $2150.00.
They are available now?
I bought the speedmasters on blackfriday.
for the money I can't rebuild my iron heads.
I called rocket racing to have them done in the spring.
At the time he wasn't even taking new customers/projects.
none the less, for my goals the speedmaster will be fine.
I'm only building a basic g body cruiser.
Nothing fancy and I'm trying to do it super cheap and on the downlow.
They are available now?
I bought the speedmasters on blackfriday.
for the money I can't rebuild my iron heads.
I called rocket racing to have them done in the spring.
At the time he wasn't even taking new customers/projects.
none the less, for my goals the speedmaster will be fine.
I'm only building a basic g body cruiser.
Nothing fancy and I'm trying to do it super cheap and on the downlow.
Any suggestions of springs @cutlassefi ?
Next batch of Edelbrocks will be done in 6-8 weeks.
Just have John put a good spring in it. He’ll know what to use.
Im not taking them to John. I don't plan to take them to a builder at all.
Going to put some springs in them run them.
Oh ok. I can supply what you need if you’re interested. BUT in stock form they won’t give you much more power than a set of big valve irons. Just an fyi.
Oh ok. I can supply what you need if you’re interested. BUT in stock form they won’t give you much more power than a set of big valve irons. Just an fyi.
that's completely fine.
Only really want to build 400hp deal. Anything more then 400 is icing on the cake.
Guys that is my whole point on the Edelbrock thread? For the $$$, I think one is better off using these with some work and still out run the OOTB Edelbrocks, and be less $$$.
Do you know of anybody that's actually worked the new edelbrock heads to confirm what you're saying? Because if not no disrespect but your statements is mere speculation. We've seen what fully ported speedmaster heads do but I haven't seen not one set of the new edelbrock worked to compare the two. But i can guarantee you the speedmaster isn't doing the numbers those edelbrock heads are capable of
Do you know of anybody that's actually worked the new edelbrock heads to confirm what you're saying? Because if not no disrespect but your statements is mere speculation. We've seen what fully ported speedmaster heads do but I haven't seen not one set of the new edelbrock worked to compare the two. But i can guarantee you the speedmaster isn't doing the numbers those edelbrock heads are capable of
Bill has done a new set of heads and they are a step forward. No one ever said the Speedmaster head is as good as the Edelbrock. For the money the Speedmaster heads are hard to beat. One could argue, that taking the money you save on the heads and investing in a good converter and gears would be better bang for the $$
Below are the Dyno numbers from a BTR build using the new heads ported.
Last edited by Bernhard; December 12th, 2022 at 07:53 PM.
Bill has done a new set of heads and they are a step forward. No one ever said the Speedmaster head is as good as the Edelbrock. For the money the Speedmaster heads are hard to beat. One could argue, that taking the money you save on the heads and investing in a good converter and gears would be better bang for the $$
Below are the Dyno numbers from a BTR build using the new heads ported.
I think one is better off using these with some work and still out run the OOTB Edelbrocks, and be less $$$.
This is what you said you said more than your admitting too and no Bill has not done a cnc ported new edelbrock heads. I have these heads he didn't have a program ready to do them and told me he probably wouldn't have one this year. Lol smh I'm currently having if not the first set, one of the first sets actually cnc'd etc at the moment. And i will not reveal what's so far has been seen because he's not finished but I can rest assure you the speedmaster hasn't reached what's seen thus far not just on the intake but neither on the exhaust which I was told was very very good.
Last edited by Tederra; December 12th, 2022 at 08:34 PM.
Bill has done a new set of heads and they are a step forward. No one ever said the Speedmaster head is as good as the Edelbrock. For the money the Speedmaster heads are hard to beat. One could argue, that taking the money you save on the heads and investing in a good converter and gears would be better bang for the $$
Below are the Dyno numbers from a BTR build using the new heads ported.
What does that prove?
A dyno sheet, with some numbers on it. Nothing.
Nothing to say about cam specs, intake, exhaust, compression, etc.
Engine builds are muti faceted.
with head flow, camber design etc, are only a percentage of that. ...
Guy would really like to some a to b testing on stock speedmaster vs stock eddy, ported and worked Speedmaster vs ported and worked eddy. Etc etc.
What does that prove?
A dyno sheet, with some numbers on it. Nothing.
Nothing to say about cam specs, intake, exhaust, compression, etc.
Engine builds are muti faceted.
with head flow, camber design etc, are only a percentage of that. ...
Guy would really like to some a to b testing on stock speedmaster vs stock eddy, ported and worked Speedmaster vs ported and worked eddy. Etc etc.
Bill didn't cnc the new eddys I've called I've asked trust me he told me he didn't have the program ready to do them. Soo go figure, and I'm not saying the Speedmaster won't work because they will and they have. I was going to get some because choices are limited. But and I mean a big but the guy that has my heads says these are some of the hardest HIP'D castings he's set a burr on. So a better product is a better product all around not in just nunbers but quality as well that can't equally be compared to lower quality product. It is what it is but justification only makes sense to the one giving the justification.
What does that prove?
A dyno sheet, with some numbers on it. Nothing.
Nothing to say about cam specs, intake, exhaust, compression, etc.
Engine builds are muti faceted.
with head flow, camber design etc, are only a percentage of that. ...
Guy would really like to some a to b testing on stock speedmaster vs stock eddy, ported and worked Speedmaster vs ported and worked eddy. Etc etc.
Bill didn't cnc the new eddys I've called I've asked trust me he told me he didn't have the program ready to do them. Soo go figure, and I'm not saying the Speedmaster won't work because they will and they have. I was going to get some because choices are limited. But and I mean a big but the guy that has my heads says these are some of the hardest HIP'D castings he's set a burr on. So a better product is a better product all around not in just nunbers but quality as well that can't equally be compared to lower quality product. It is what it is but justification only makes sense to the one giving the justification.
I'm not justifing anything. I honestly don't care.
this whole pissing match is a waste of time in my opinion.
there is a cheap head and and more expensive head.
each has its own market.
Those are really the only 2 options for the avg guy building a street engine.
unless you got money to burn on some of the high priced heads in Mondello or rocket or etc.
I'm mostly a chevy guys with multiple small and big chevy engine builds under my belt.
when is come to heads for chevys I'm spoiled for choice.
Anyway. I really just needed a head that was usable. I COULDNT get my current heads rebuild for the price I paid for the China heads.
so hear I am.
I honestly do get why guys care as much as they do for these basic 550hp olds builds. I built a small chevy 406 that made 550 with dart heads and off the shelf components.
then I'll probably spend more on my olds then that small chevy to make the same or less.
If guys really want to make power, we all know what to do.... BBC.
I Dyno’d a 455 with 9.8:1 comp, out of the box Speedmaster heads, a Comp cams 230/236@.050 Hyd roller, Torker intake and 830 Quick fuel carb, with shorty headers. Made 420/485.
I also Dyno’d one of my own 455 builds that had the new Edelbrocks, untouched, Performer, 10.1:1, 234/240 Hyd roller, 850 Brawler, and my long tube 1 3/4” Dyno headers. It made 517/571. I realize this isn’t a true A B comparison, but based on this, and what Bill T put out there. I think it’s safe to say the new heads are better out of the box. From there it just comes down to budget, your target and whether or not you want Chinese or USA stuff.
Hope this helps.
I'm not justifing anything. I honestly don't care.
this whole pissing match is a waste of time in my opinion.
there is a cheap head and and more expensive head.
each has its own market.
Those are really the only 2 options for the avg guy building a street engine.
unless you got money to burn on some of the high priced heads in Mondello or rocket or etc.
I'm mostly a chevy guys with multiple small and big chevy engine builds under my belt.
when is come to heads for chevys I'm spoiled for choice.
Anyway. I really just needed a head that was usable. I COULDNT get my current heads rebuild for the price I paid for the China heads.
so hear I am.
I honestly do get why guys care as much as they do for these basic 550hp olds builds. I built a small chevy 406 that made 550 with dart heads and off the shelf components.
then I'll probably spend more on my olds then that small chevy to make the same or less.
If guys really want to make power, we all know what to do.... BBC.
typical only reason chevy is where it is now is because some executive decision that was made to transition the funding its all gm. But if you didn't care you'd never try to prove your point with inaccurate info about what bill has done with the heads obviously you couldn't buy. It's not about being rich or wealthy it's about having patience saving or planning to get whatever you want out of life. Nothing comes overnight but you mention chevy which has absolutely nothing to do with initial conversation about two PARTICULAR HEADS. You're not the only one that have other vehicles. But this is classic oldsmobile NOT CLASSIC CHEVROLET. And my small block Olds should make more power than that chevy engine you brought up with the new eddy heads that's not worth the money.
Last edited by Tederra; December 13th, 2022 at 06:32 AM.
typical only reason chevy is where it is now is because some executive decision that was made to transition the funding its all gm. But if you didn't care you'd never try to prove your point with inaccurate info about what bill has done with the heads obviously you couldn't buy. It's not about being rich or wealthy it's about having patience saving or planning to get whatever you want out of life. Nothing comes overnight but you mention chevy which has absolutely nothing to do with initial conversation about two PARTICULAR HEADS. You're not the only one that have other vehicles. But this is classic oldsmobile NOT CLASSIC CHEVROLET. And my small block Olds should make more power than that chevy engine you brought up with the new eddy heads that's not worth the money.
I have no idea who the hell bill is.
So that means nothing to me.
A head ported by some guy I've never heard off probably means I wouldn't have him port them. Also hes going to port a head that i cant even buy? Makes no sense
what is my point?
I believe my only point was that the cheaper heads were worth a look to some people when a poster said they weren't.
I am Not trying to build my 461 into a 600/700hp engine.
400 plus and I'll be happy. The heads I bought will do that. Because of the other factors I have in the build, cam, intake, exhaust, and compression.
I've waited 2 f*cking years for these eddys to hit the market. So don't preach me about my virtues.
I got tired of waiting so I bought the speedmaster.
David freiburger says don't get it perfect, just get it running.
That's where I'm at with this car. A car doing burnouts with China aluminum is better then a glorified paperweight sitting in my garage.
nice chevelle. I have a 67 as well.
I won't post a picture because it's not a olds and don't want to make you mad for bring up the C word. Hahaha!
I Dyno’d a 455 with 9.8:1 comp, out of the box Speedmaster heads, a Comp cams 230/236@.050 Hyd roller, Torker intake and 830 Quick fuel carb, with shorty headers. Made 420/485.
I also Dyno’d one of my own 455 builds that had the new Edelbrocks, untouched, Performer, 10.1:1, 234/240 Hyd roller, 850 Brawler, and my long tube 1 3/4” Dyno headers. It made 517/571. I realize this isn’t a true A B comparison, but based on this, and what Bill T put out there. I think it’s safe to say the new heads are better out of the box. From there it just comes down to budget, your target and whether or not you want Chinese or USA stuff.
Hope this helps.
I think one is better off using these with some work and still out run the OOTB Edelbrocks, and be less $$$.
This is what you said you said more than your admitting too and no Bill has not done a cnc ported new edelbrock heads. I have these heads he didn't have a program ready to do them and told me he probably wouldn't have one this year. Lol smh I'm currently having if not the first set, one of the first sets actually cnc'd etc at the moment. And i will not reveal what's so far has been seen because he's not finished but I can rest assure you the speedmaster hasn't reached what's seen thus far not just on the intake but neither on the exhaust which I was told was very very good.
I never said that the Speedmaster head was better nor did I say that it was a max effort BTR head!
I posted the info in another in another thread on this form a least a month back what don't you understand about a step forward?
I Dyno’d a 455 with 9.8:1 comp, out of the box Speedmaster heads, a Comp cams 230/236@.050 Hyd roller, Torker intake and 830 Quick fuel carb, with shorty headers. Made 420/485.
I also Dyno’d one of my own 455 builds that had the new Edelbrocks, untouched, Performer, 10.1:1, 234/240 Hyd roller, 850 Brawler, and my long tube 1 3/4” Dyno headers. It made 517/571. I realize this isn’t a true A B comparison, but based on this, and what Bill T put out there. I think it’s safe to say the new heads are better out of the box. From there it just comes down to budget, your target and whether or not you want Chinese or USA stuff.
Hope this helps.
I Dyno’d a 455 with 9.8:1 comp, out of the box Speedmaster heads, a Comp cams 230/236@.050 Hyd roller, Torker intake and 830 Quick fuel carb, with shorty headers. Made 420/485.
I also Dyno’d one of my own 455 builds that had the new Edelbrocks, untouched, Performer, 10.1:1, 234/240 Hyd roller, 850 Brawler, and my long tube 1 3/4” Dyno headers. It made 517/571. I realize this isn’t a true A B comparison, but based on this, and what Bill T put out there. I think it’s safe to say the new heads are better out of the box. From there it just comes down to budget, your target and whether or not you want Chinese or USA stuff.
Hope this helps.
Originally Posted by Bernhard
Mark did you rum the Edelbrocks out of the box?
Originally Posted by Bernhard
Long tube headers
more comp
more cam
Not the same intake or carburetor
displacement?
Were the heads untouched?
Long tube headers
more comp
more cam
Not the same intake or carburetor
displacement?
Were the heads untouched?
One was a 461, the other a 463. Big deal.
And I really don’t think .3 of comp difference as well as just 4* of cam made up the bulk of the 97hp difference, do you?
I can tell you from experience the long tubes were worth 30, the intake about 20, maybe, the rest is cyl head. I’ve Dyno’d enough of these to know.
If you ever actually saw the way both come out of the box you wouldn’t be asking these questions. That’s the problem here and on other forums. People critique stuff that they’ve never even seen, amazing.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 13th, 2022 at 10:48 PM.
One was a 461, the other a 463. Big deal.
And I really don’t think .3 of comp difference as well as just 4* of cam made up the bulk of the 97hp difference, do you?
I can tell you from experience the long tubes were worth 30, the intake about 20, maybe, the rest is cyl head. I’ve Dyno’d enough of these to know.
If you ever actually saw the way both come out of the box you wouldn’t be asking these questions. That’s the problem here and on other forums. People critique stuff that they’ve never even seen, amazing.
Bernhard wrote Thanks for the replay
So the new head is worth 36 to 45 hp out of the box?
I’m surprised anyone would run a head with out going through them first. I would think that they would check valve guide clearance and ensure that the vale job was performed well as a bare minimum before bolting them on.
Do you not go through all the heads before you build an engine for a customer?
i think it is great that you helped bring an update head to the market that is a step forward
Last edited by Bernhard; December 14th, 2022 at 01:05 PM.
Bernhard wrote Thanks for the replay
So the new head is worth 36 to 45 hp out of the box?
I’m surprised anyone would run a head out of the box with going through them first. I would think that they would check valve guide clearance and ensure that the vale job was performed well as a bare minimum.
Do you not go through all the heads before you build an engine for a customer?
i think it is great that you helped bring a update head to the market that is a step forward
I have had 2 sets of dart and set of brodix heads gone through before I run them. Every time their was nothing worth noting that needed to be fixed.
sometimes a guy has to wonder about these machine shop guys just thumping things on the internet to drum up business.
Having ate a valve and trashing an engine from being cheap and not changing valve springs, I'll be the first to tell you to run springs recommended for your camshaft. The 1st gen Edelbrock springs don't like even a mild hydraulic roller cam. So, I'll agree with throwing the springs in the trash or ordering bare heads. The guides seem to be questionable by most accounts, so I'll agree with getting them checked, too.
Having ate a valve and trashing an engine from being cheap and not changing valve springs, I'll be the first to tell you to run springs recommended for your camshaft. The 1st gen Edelbrock springs don't like even a mild hydraulic roller cam. So, I'll agree with throwing the springs in the trash or ordering bare heads. The guides seem to be questionable by most accounts, so I'll agree with getting them checked, too.
You’re right, you should never run any Hyd flat tappet spring with any Hyd roller cam. Mild or not the roller profiles are way more aggressive and the lifters are much heavier. That’s the reason you need different springs no matter what.
November 26th, 2022, 05:29 PM
