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First let me just say that i enjoy running the 1/4 in my 69 and do not want to drop in a 455 at the moment. Yes i have a pretty good idea what I am missing vs newer car performance and how a 455 could really help close that gap but i am fine with it.
That is my daily behind the 69 in this pic,
a bone stock Jag STR, 400 hp 400 lb ft supercharged. No i have never taken it to the track. Quite honestly Id rather run 15s in my 69 with the hopes of getting her quicker than take the Jag.(and yes the Jags acceleration feels ridiculously quick to me, especially on the highway)
In my next post i will upload 2 slips, my first pass ever in the 69 and my last so far. What i am doing to get the performance up and my short term goals along with some self imposed limitations...
I would appreciate your input regarding tips for improvement etc.
Here is more info on those 2 passes, plus others that happened in between.
Test weight/ ET----/ MPH /temperature/ notes--------- / mods,no mods /engine temps/ track & yr
4040 lbs / 16.632 / 85.79 / 70* / first pass ever, as is/ stock air cleaner / hot / Etown 2015
3960 lbs / 15.993 / 87.32 / 56* / adjusting and tuning / flipped air lid / warm / Etown 2016
3920 lbs / 15.781 / 88.58 / 56* / adjusting and tuning / open air cleaner / warm / Etown 2016
3955 lbs / 15.963 / 88.84 / 52* / adjust and tune / stock single snorkel / warm / Island 2018
3860 lbs / 15.543 / 89.59 / 42* / last, adj and tune / open air, AC delete / warm / Atco 2019
Engine was turning around 4800 rpm in second gear at the 1/4 mile marker (Atco).
Car has been and still is dual exhaust stock manifolds, with original points since day one for me.
The car is now power steering delete (manual steering swap) as well as ac delete, down to one belt. My next time at track i may be around 3760 lbs test weight, with temps in the 50s or less.
Current goal is to match Automobile Catalogs race simulation specs for my car with base options when new. 15.4 @ 91 mph while weighing 3734 lbs with driver.
So that's it guys for right now, besides trying to keep the 69s curb at no less than 3534, (3534 lbs is the minimum weight for my exact model) and not wanting to advance timing (pinging can be an issue with stock timing as is...) What am i missing that was possible in 1969 to boost performance ? While staying 2.78 open rear and THM350. Im thinking not much ? What may have been done to the test cars back then ?
For now I am chasing ghosts..., so many new cars are too quick to even have them on my radar.
Here is a list of some of the quickest Oldsmobile track tested small blocks of all time. My goal is to hopefully catch up to all of them and beyond. Yes i know i have a big advantage in track prep and tire tech, (honestly catching up to there mph means more to me in a way) But these are the original highly detailed road test which is all that i want to consider for now.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
I would mix some VP MS 109 gas in with the pump gas, lock the dist out, play with the metering rods and timing, run at 120 degrees, then catch Atco in a 30.30 baro, I think you could see under 14.50, its all about testing.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; September 25th, 2019 at 06:16 PM.
You say its pining ? IM running 10.25 to 1 compression with 93 octane. You may need to do some fine tuning you may have a lean fuel mixture or too much timing comin in too soo. Your gear ratio is killing you in the rear end. A 3.42 would be a good compromise and maybe a higher stall converter to help it get out of the hole faster. Headers would be a huge help and some exhaust cut outs . Those few things would make it move much faster. I think you car is actually doing pretty good considering weight , rear end gear .
If the engine has not been apart you have a ticking time bomb. The factory used a nylon coated cam sprocket, I would change it immediately before racing anymore. While you're in there change the cam and lifters.
Your times are pretty on the mark for a stock non-W31 350 Cutlass of that period
Here are some old passes of mine and my firneds
69 Cutlass S HT 350 Th350 4v 2.78 duals 16.40ish
71 Cutlass Suprme HT 350 Th350 4v 3.08 duals 16.20ish
70 Cutlass Supreme conv 4v Th350 3.08 duals 16.20ish
70 Cutlass S HT 4v 4 speed 3.08 duals 15.60 89mph
All the above were stock with points ignition. The 4 speed 70 ran better due to the slighter hotter cam used in the manual trans 350s of that year.
You can super tune. Olds even printed a booklet. The carb is re jetted ,colder plugs, timing changed. Haven't bought the booklet but plan to. Transmission shift kit was also done. I don't know if that is in the lit though. Good luck with your need for speed
Hi Phil, i was also looking for input like you are and got it !! again iam not a real performance expert but everything these good people have advised you to do is what i would also do if i was you !! wish i could be more help !! john...
Wow guys, thanks for all responses. Where to begin... I guess first come first serve so to speak.
Originally Posted by Fun71
100+ octane leaded gasoline
She would love that, unfortunately because of the cats i have to use unleaded or delete them...
Originally Posted by VORTECPRO
I would mix some VP MS 109 gas in with the pump gas,
I have mixed unleaded race fuel with pump gas before and the car is very happy. Its doable but tricky today for me. Englishtown raceway park sold race fuel by the gallon but they no longer exist. The 2 local gas stations that sold 100 and 110 octane by me no longer carry the fuel.
Now both Island and Atco sell race fuel but by 5 gallon minimums. My preferred pass is ideally with 5 gallons in tank total. So i'm tacking on 30 + lbs to my curb going this route. Or i need to arrive there with like 1 gallon in tank which is too close for comfort.
Regardless if i see an opportunity to run race fuel within reason I will.
lock the dist out, play with the metering rods and timing, run at 120 degrees, then catch Atco in a 30.30 baro, I think you could see under 14.50, its all about testing.
Yowsers music to my ears ! I'm all about running her in great weather. That last and best pass was spectacular weather and Atco is a bullet quick track. Even though i red lit, it was a perfect pass go wise. 42 degrees Fahrenheit, humidity 24% and she stuck like glue. 3 passes in a row, one better than the next as the night settled in.
The barometer was 30.31 for my last pass ! Density altitude was -1528 feet !!
After that i knew i couldn't really run better without some sort of mod...
Sounds like advancing the timing will be a must to see further improvement. I do not have aftermarket gauges, just factory set up, dummy lights, etc, but i do have a tachometer. I have made passes without her being full temp and she didn't seem to like it but again a guessing game without real gauges.
I know for sure she really does not like high outside heat. So that 120* engine temp sounds appealing.
Put some cut outs on it open up the exhaust. Those cats are super restrictive. Now I only saw one case here where a classic car needed cats... it needed to pass emissions testing once before being exempt. The engine ran sooooo bad. It really choked up the exhaust.
I have done all kinds of exhaust testing at the track. It has varied from combo to combo but on my old very stockish 350 running a conventional dual exhaust car ran 14.2 through the mufflers. 14.0 with open exhaust ( uncorking the cutouts ).
Now I only saw one case here where a classic car needed cats... it needed to pass emissions testing once before being exempt.
There is no need for catalytic converters. I had to run my 71 through emissions testing for nearly 15 years and I was able to "tune for emissions" and pass with flying colors every time.
You say its pining ? IM running 10.25 to 1 compression with 93 octane. You may need to do some fine tuning you may have a lean fuel mixture or too much timing comin in too soo.
Pinging was/is once in a blue moon and light, likely because i may skip adding a bottle of booster with partial fill ups etc. Generally happened at speed on a incline on highway. Although with every belt removed from engine seems like less booster is needed. But i still need the MMT for non hardened valve seats.
When i have ran 100 octane or higher blended with pump gas absolutely no audible pinging. My last session at the track was just pump gas 93 and a bottle of Lucas 3x booster, ac delete, and the engine seemed happy.
Now if it still pings and i can get rid of it with tuning while retaining stock timing or even better advancing the timing, awesome !
Originally Posted by coppercutlass
Your gear ratio is killing you in the rear end. A 3.42 would be a good compromise and maybe a higher stall converter to help it get out of the hole faster.
I couldn't agree more, I believe the 2.78 is a performance destroyer. The car went from shifting into 3rd just after the 1/4 mile marker to shifting into 3rd just before as the cars tuning improved. So now i must go in 2nd gear otherwise i slow down just as i am hitting the traps. Basically the better the car runs the more exposed the gears limitations are.
I think 3.42s, the entire rear drum to drum with out swapping on disc brakes and i'm running a 14.9 in third gear with no other moves. I'm thinking the 3.42s will help shift through the gears so much earlier that i'm hard charging over the finish line in 3rd.
I already have a TCI Saturday night special waiting to be installed...
Originally Posted by coppercutlass
Headers would be a huge help and some exhaust cut outs . Those few things would make it move much faster. I think you car is actually doing pretty good considering weight , rear end gear .
I like both suggestions, headers preferable long tube for max hp. As well as the cut outs for the occasional unfiltered flow.
As far as how well she is running thanks pal and i agree. 65 passes so far, 59 (1/4s) and 6 (1/8s.) I think the car may have peaked as was in March, hopefully the manual steering will give me a little more, and im sure the less weight will help.
If the engine has not been apart you have a ticking time bomb. The factory used a nylon coated cam sprocket, I would change it immediately before racing anymore. While you're in there change the cam and lifters.
Vital heads up, thank you, yes i'm aware, and boy your post did a number on the wind behind my sails...
Had mechanic do the old crankshaft test for play a while back, it checked out... Regardless its been on my to do list for some time. Didn't really want to go there till i got the manual steering sessions in ( sorta of my finally for stockish passes) . Not the case anymore !
My better safe than sorry move was to replace all radiator hoses, heater hose, etc. Before my next session, as they are getting long in the tooth. Now will have timing chain kit installed as well.
Your post also motivated me to reach out to the previous owner, its been quite a few years. He had plenty of upkeep done to the car during his ownership. Great owner, obviously this car has been loved for a long time. He cant recall with 100% certainty if it was done or not, but is leaning no. Receipts don't indicate it so far so no choice. I really don't want it opened up only to see it was already done but what else to do. Must be done.
Originally Posted by JSPajak
Here are some old passes of mine and my firneds
You made my day with this post, been searching long and hard for those type of stock tests. All over the net for years, cant even locate a 1969-1970 310 hp 3speed auto original magazine road test. Thanks
Originally Posted by jmcghee
You can super tune. Olds even printed a booklet. The carb is re jetted ,colder plugs, timing changed. Haven't bought the booklet but plan to. Transmission shift kit was also done. I don't know if that is in the lit though. Good luck with your need for speed
Thanks jmcghee, the cold plugs were just about all i could come up with when i was putting together this thread. Hot Rod magazine 1970 ran a 14.75 @ 95.44 mph with an auto W31 . Then they swapped in cold plugs, Autolite A42s and ran 14.62 @ 96.05 mph, a nice gain in my book.
A fellow member OLDSter Ralph recently forwarded me some super-tuning paperwork. Thanks Ralph.
Originally Posted by john mann
Hi Phil, i was also looking for input like you are and got it !! again iam not a real performance expert but everything these good people have advised you to do is what i would also do if i was you !! wish i could be more help !! john...
Say what now?!?!?! isn't this a 1969 Cutlass that we're talking about here?
Originally Posted by Fun71
There is no need for catalytic converters. I had to run my 71 through emissions testing for nearly 15 years and I was able to "tune for emissions" and pass with flying colors every time.
And as svnt442 posted about cats on a '69:
Say what now?!?!?!
I know guys I know... not sure exactly when it happened but i sorta lost my tolerance for the fumes within the last 10 years. Cats are absolutely not necessary here in NYC for cars like ours. Its totally a preference on my part. As far as inspections go its safety only once a car turns 25 years old here.
With regards to performance i have seen no negative impact so far. I'm on my second set as we speak. First set was put on after my first time running a 15.9 eventually ran a 15.7 with them on. After the accident my first session back the peak pass was a 15.9 at a higher elevation track, but then she seemed to meander in the 16s session after session. So I said maybe they have already clogged... Removed them went back and no gain whatsoever seemingly slowed down even more, at this point i was used to the cleaner running. So i went back to them soon after.
From there eventually ran a 15.7 again, at a lower elevation track, then a 15.6 and finally a 15.5 with them on. While constantly gaining MPH. Who knows, if i can tune the fumes down to acceptable for me, I may go cat-less again.
PS guys one and all, I am accumulating parts and scheduling the work, cooking with gas so to speak and looking forward to getting in some passes before the seasons over. Will keep everyone posted as things progress.
You might find these times interesting as I remember them from 1968 run a Keystone Raceway park, New Alexandria, Pa. in the families Cutlass Supreme 4dr, .
The engine was the 350,. 4bbl, 2.78 and 2 speed Jetaway. Dad let me make the changes. 2.78 (no posi)
Bone stock: 17.78 @ 82mph
With duel exhausts and stock mufflers: 16.94@87mph
With straight through Walker continental glass packs: 16:00@91.00 mph
Gas mileage when from 15 to 20 mpg hwy. from stock to the glass packs
Our 70 442 with glass packs and 3.23 ran 14:30@106mph (no posi and stock tires- all it did was spin the tires so the time is slow) I also had that car up to what I estimate to be, by where the speedo needle was around 150 mph and it was still going.
Last edited by jRoofgunner; November 6th, 2019 at 07:06 PM.
Your gains after those mods were great, 5 mph more when going dual exhaust, then a 4 mph gain going with the glasspacks... tremendous ! Your ride was clearly generating more HP than mine. My current ETs are quicker but that is simply great track prep, modern tire tech, a lightning quick sea level track, and my penchant for making runs in extraordinarily good weather for maximum performance. Bottom line, MPH is the true indicator of horsepower.
PS I always figured the stock mufflers back then where very restrictive, your performance mods clearly confirm that.
A couple of things about that info is the Cutlass had stock tires and with the stock rear end(2.78) it didn't spin the tires coming off the line. I would like to have seen what the times had been with a TH350. The other thing is the 350 engine with duals could be very economical to run. The 20mpg came during a family trip to Florida with the car loaded. The Walker cont. mufflers were not that loud and the 20 mpg was quite good at that time.
The quarter mile speed of the 442, which was not a w-30 shows it was certainly capable with running with the Hemi's at the time also. It had 3.23 rearend and the stock wide ova tires and it's time would never coincide with the speed. When we ordered it I tried to get Dad to put posi in it ($65 I think) but he said no.
That torque converter will help launch quite a bit. I went from a 2300 stall in front of a 2004R with 2.78 gears and 1/4 block burnouts to the factory 1600 stall and TH350 to barely eeking the tires. Of course my cam is very similar to the 216/217 .472/.472 cam the 350 4 spd came with, mine is 214/214 .472/.472 on a 110 vs a 112 LSA. If you do a lot of highway driving, 3.42 is the maximum I would go. Do the converter, hopefully stalls around 2000 rpm or slightly more and get the 4 spd cam from Supercars Unlimited or an aftermarket cam. That nylon cam gear is a ticking time bomb and should be replaced, half way there for a cam swap. Pretty sure my 70S would have hit 14's but my Daughter ran the trans low a day before I was going to the track.
Since you know more about all this than I do, give me you opinion on the following: I just got done putting together a 65 Cutlass Holiday Cpe, (original configuration) with a 468 "D" block motor(built by CutlassFi) 470HP/540TQ with a 200R4(Janis transmissions)2500 rpm converter. I advised Mr. Janis of the engine that was going into the car and that it wasn't built to be raced, as I did Mark. It has a SS830 Quickfuel carb. The car has the original rear end 3.08 to 1. Due being busy, traveling, etc. I haven't driven the car much other that fixing some issues with the brakes and verifying the accuracy of the speedo with the Garmin, which turned out fine as I told Vince the rear end ratio. I don't know, but will find out what the RPM is @ 70mph. I plan on taking the car to the drag strip just to see what it will do, but that's about the limit of racing I plan on doing. It doesn't have posi-traction and I've got the radial, Redline Firestone Wide Oval (costly) tires on the 15 in American Torque thrust mags(period correct). Primarily it will go to car shows, and provide me eye candy for my man cave, and make me feel and stay young. Some have suggested changing out the 3.08 gears to something along the 3.42 to 3.73 lines. My brother-in-law said before doing anything to check the rpm at 70 while the car's in overdrive before doing anything. Money is no object. What do you think?
I have 3:73 gears with a 2004r trans with a non lock up converter. At 65 I am turning 2400 rpms. A lock up converter will drop the rpms an additional 300 rpms give or take.
Great thread. I recently acquired a '72 442 with a 350 and similar gears. I wondered how it would run and after reading this thread, it would be like 69CSHC's but with less compression I think I will be just much slower lol
A couple of things about that info is the Cutlass had stock tires and with the stock rear end(2.78) it didn't spin the tires coming off the line. I would like to have seen what the times had been with a TH350. The other thing is the 350 engine with duals could be very economical to run. The 20mpg came during a family trip to Florida with the car loaded. The Walker cont. mufflers were not that loud and the 20 mpg was quite good at that time.
With the addition of a TH350 i say you would have run quicker but wheel spin issues would be all but guaranteed. Currently even when i warm up the tire on the track bite but dont hold out long enough the tire will go up in smoke off the line.
With regards to your 68 350 hitting 91 MPH in the 1/4, Car Life tested a 1965 442 400cid 345 Gross hp with 3.23 posi and 2 speed trans, it ran a 15.5 @ 89 MPH for them at a 3890 lb test weight. http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/membe...2_Test_1-4.pdf
Obviously your car was performing exceptionally well both in the 1/4 mile and mpg department. To date i have seen a best of approx 15 mpg mostly highway on my Cutlass, which runs pretty well in my opinion. I'm glad to see that my car can still potentially run better.
jR did you manually shift the Jetaway and if so would you remember rpms or mph at shift point ?
Originally Posted by jRoofgunner
The quarter mile speed of the 442, which was not a w-30 shows it was certainly capable with running with the Hemi's at the time also. It had 3.23 rearend and the stock wide ova tires and it's time would never coincide with the speed. When we ordered it I tried to get Dad to put posi in it ($65 I think) but he said no.
Outstanding, just to highlight your 442s performance. My daily driver supposedly can hit 105 mph in the 1/4 mile. Again thats 400 hp 400 lb ft Net ratings with a 6 speed auto trans. At the inception of the model Jaguar's feelings where that it would be the most powerful mass production vehicle they ever built. The fact that your 442 hit 106 mph with just a performance muffler swap speaks volumes to how special some cars were during the original muscle era.
Your performance gains on both the 350 and 455 due to a less restricted exhaust exemplify how badly de-tuned our cars were back then due to poor exhaust flow.
PS its my understanding that the C7 Corvette is the first generation that doesn't see significant gains in power due to the addition of aftermarket headers.... So essentially 50 years to minimize exhaust flow hindrance and be completely emissions compliant. While increasing horsepower outputs dramatically.
So here is one for ya. We took out my 77 pontiac bonneville with a 350 olds pretty much stock with a towing cam and edelbrock intake with headers and a sniper EFI. , th350 and a 3.08 rear gear. My wife drives this car and she drove it that day. With me in the passenger seat im 200 lbs ., she clicked off a 16.2 all other ones she blazed the tires. But still managed another 16.2 spinning and not shifting the trans. I never calibrated that trans to shift at WOT as I manually shift it and have semi full manual control . it would have ran a mid 15 is my guess. Now we are on the quest next year to see how fast we can make it without changing the engine, we are doing some suspension work, shed some weight, drag radials vs just street tires, and a few other tweaks.
Great thread. I recently acquired a '72 442 with a 350 and similar gears. I wondered how it would run and after reading this thread, it would be like 69CSHC's but with less compression I think I will be just much slower lol
-Michael
Nice car congrats! You have a nice foundation and at worst my same cam... minus the compression is a blessing in a way... No gas quality issues.
Auto Catalog is saying 1972 350 442s are capable of running 0-60 in 7.8 seconds and 16.2 in the 1/4, peak setup. That's definitely in the mix.
Originally Posted by coppercutlass
So here is one for ya. We took out my 77 pontiac bonneville with a 350 olds pretty much stock with a towing cam and edelbrock intake with headers and a sniper EFI. , th350 and a 3.08 rear gear. My wife drives this car and she drove it that day. With me in the passenger seat im 200 lbs ., she clicked off a 16.2 all other ones she blazed the tires. But still managed another 16.2 spinning and not shifting the trans. I never calibrated that trans to shift at WOT as I manually shift it and have semi full manual control . it would have ran a mid 15 is my guess. Now we are on the quest next year to see how fast we can make it without changing the engine, we are doing some suspension work, shed some weight, drag radials vs just street tires, and a few other tweaks.
Good stuff the car is running really well, even the 16.2 is a few of seconds quicker than stock.
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
That torque converter will help launch quite a bit. I went from a 2300 stall in front of a 2004R with 2.78 gears and 1/4 block burnouts to the factory 1600 stall and TH350 to barely eeking the tires. Of course my cam is very similar to the 216/217 .472/.472 cam the 350 4 spd came with, mine is 214/214 .472/.472 on a 110 vs a 112 LSA. If you do a lot of highway driving, 3.42 is the maximum I would go. Do the converter, hopefully stalls around 2000 rpm or slightly more and get the 4 spd cam from Supercars Unlimited or an aftermarket cam. That nylon cam gear is a ticking time bomb and should be replaced, half way there for a cam swap. Pretty sure my 70S would have hit 14's but my Daughter ran the trans low a day before I was going to the track.
I would eventually like to have the saturday night special converter i already have, installed, rear wise 3.42 is in my opinion ideal for me. The timing chain kit is done, will update next.
Alright guys was hoping to get another session in before this update ( went once to Atco since works been done, no gain...) but, time is quickly running out and weather, schedule, etc, is not meshing... ( But i will still try...)
First whats been done so far etc.
New timing chain kit, Sealed Power / Federal Mogul.
New all aluminum water pump from Flowkooler, for 1971 to 1990 .
New Robert Shaw 180 degree thermostat.
Original unit manual steering swap.
New radiator hoses and heater hoses.
New seat extenders that push the bench back 2 inches.
New minimized bench seat padding.
New Kidde fire extinguisher.
Old chain setup.
After.
After.
After.
Before extenders installed, notice armrest in relation to seat back.
After.
Next post will be new time slip and issues...
Last edited by 69CSHC; November 19th, 2019 at 12:21 AM.
Reason: clarity
2 sessions back in March i ran the exact same et, shown below. But notice i ran almost 1 mph quicker before the work...
The car was not ready for its close up... although tested and checked many times before going out there. She had minor leaks and the heater core went again, ( already had replaced a few years back ) luckily just under hood spray and parking lot drip. Obviously i could not wring her out, and it ended up being an abbreviated session.
PS I did manage to eek out an all time best 330 foot, so not a total waste of time but pretty close...
Last edited by 69CSHC; November 19th, 2019 at 12:57 AM.
Reason: clarity
Interesting post. You guys have me feeling really good how I ran back in the day. I'll post some of my old slips if interested, but just dug them out. I ran 14.988 @ 92.197 best was 14.96 @ 91.956 back in 2000. The car is a 70 S with a low compression 72 350 original 2 barrel engine just honed, new bearings, and rings. Cam was changed to a crane cams mild performance and qjet. Car has AC, power windows, disc brakes, power steering. TCI saturday night special and TH400 trans. 3.91 non posi rear. Ran those on pump 93 octane gas. Oh and stock manifolds hooked to a 2.5" flow master exhaust system. Yeah it looked goofy where it met the manifolds. I put the th400 in before I knew about the lower gear ratio and weight difference. I was in my 20's and really didn't now what I was doing..or at least I thought so back then.... lol
All in all it's tuning and driver skills that make the biggest difference as well as the rear axle. The 350's really respond well to the lower gears. IMO
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by cman442
Interesting post. You guys have me feeling really good how I ran back in the day. I'll post some of my old slips if interested, but just dug them out. I ran 14.988 @ 92.197 best was 14.96 @ 91.956 back in 2000. The car is a 70 S with a low compression 72 350 original 2 barrel engine just honed, new bearings, and rings. Cam was changed to a crane cams mild performance and qjet. Car has AC, power windows, disc brakes, power steering. TCI saturday night special and TH400 trans. 3.91 non posi rear. Ran those on pump 93 octane gas. Oh and stock manifolds hooked to a 2.5" flow master exhaust system. Yeah it looked goofy where it met the manifolds. I put the th400 in before I knew about the lower gear ratio and weight difference. I was in my 20's and really didn't now what I was doing..or at least I thought so back then.... lol
All in all it's tuning and driver skills that make the biggest difference as well as the rear axle. The 350's really respond well to the lower gears. IMO
I can't hold back any more...............the cats and 4 wheel discs screwed you at the track.
I hear you, I would just about bet money that the 4 wheel disc is hurting performance big time. But this is a tough cookie for me. The conversion was done by previous owner for the sake of safety. Cost some serious change, i have the receipts. Cool mod and very understandable but I think the additional weight and drag is a nightmare for acceleration. So much so that if and when i change the rear end it will be a total drum to drum swap, and the brakes will be left that way. I cant see myself swapping the front back to drum. Even though i have no problem driving a drum all around vehicle, i learned to drive that way.
I have my doubts that the cats are hurting at this point, but if i get frustrated enough trust me they will come off.
Originally Posted by cman442
Interesting post. You guys have me feeling really good how I ran back in the day.
You should the car ran great, and thanks so much for this post.
Originally Posted by cman442
I ran 14.988 @ 92.197 best was 14.96 @ 91.956 back in 2000. The car is a 70 S with a low compression 72 350 original 2 barrel engine just honed, new bearings, and rings. Cam was changed to a crane cams mild performance and qjet. Car has AC, power windows, disc brakes, power steering. TCI saturday night special and TH400 trans. 3.91 non posi rear. Ran those on pump 93 octane gas. Oh and stock manifolds hooked to a 2.5" flow master exhaust system. Yeah it looked goofy where it met the manifolds. I put the th400 in before I knew about the lower gear ratio and weight difference. I was in my 20's and really didn't now what I was doing..or at least I thought so back then.... lol
All in all it's tuning and driver skills that make the biggest difference as well as the rear axle. The 350's really respond well to the lower gears. IMO
Fantastic performance, excellent mods money well spent. Obviously that 1972 350 when stock couldn't even smell those numbers. A stock 1970 Cutlass S high compression would be hard pressed to match your performance. I'm thinking only the stick shift versions would have a chance, and it would need to be bare bones with a serious rear gear.
My guesstimate is that your mods added / freed up somewhere around 80 - 100 hp over stock.
so it looks like my harmonic balancer went bad ? Very noticeable wobble that was absolutely not there when the timing was verified years ago. I only noticed the wobble the other day, and considering I am very mindful of my cars traits and issues i'm gonna say this just recently happened. Surely going from 3 belts down to one while over tightening the sole belt due to pulley mismatch did it ?
I recently acquired the correct pulley to balance it all out, was looking things over under the hood before the install when i noticed the issue...
I'm thinking this is the culprit for my lack of performance gain in last session. Cant imagine that wobble does my car any favors when the engine is spinning around 5000rpm. Which it is twice in the 1/4 mile pass. Shifts 5200-5400 rpm 1-2 and i'm close to 5000 again at the finish line. Also I'm thinking the engine oil may have also worked against me ? albeit to a much lesser degree. Engine had 1030 oil when last at the track vs 1040 this time.
On a good note the timing chain kit seems to have increased my idle speed by 50 rpm. I take that as an absolute positive, (the old chain had stretch).
So she improved and couldn't really show it this last session. I had an all time best 330 foot yet not a best 60 ft, so i'm thinking traction was not better but engine ran better till wobble overwhelmed any gains ?
If you want to hit 14's, do a cam swap along with that converter, the stock cam is awful and revving past 5000 rpm is just making noise. I wish my Daughter didn't run my 2004R low on fluid the day before I made it to the track. My 70 with the 214/214 cam felt faster than 204/214 cam, same 2300 stall. My 88 Cutlass ran a 9.4 in the 1/8 with a 9.6 to 1 Olds 350 with ported 2"/1.625" #6 heads the 204/214 cam with 1.72 to 1 roller rockers, 2300 stall 2004R and 3.42 gears. I should have went 20 degrees more duration for the cam, put it in with stock #8 heads. Both cams idle close to stock and need a 2000+ stall to hit their powerband. I tried hitting that 9.6 number in the 1/8, best of 9.7 with a 8 to 1 403 with the 204/214 cam. Stock 4A and #8 heads with stock springs didn't help. I tried revving it 5500 rpm vs 5000 rpm, good way to spin rod bearings and run slower. I still have 2.78 gears in my Cutlass, won't change them till I build a beefed up 2004R. Do you enjoy not having power steering? I just don't get stripping nice option off of Oldsmobile cars with less than ideal powerplants, did you gain anything? That's what chebbies are for😁.
September 25th, 2019, 04:30 PM
