bigdooly

Hello Oldsmonuts. I was wondering if anyone could give me some input.
I was just quoted a price of $1900 to redo a set of #5 heads , ported polished, stainless valves etc.
I understand this not a cheap process, but the price seems a bit much. I thought I saw a set of slightly used aluminum heads for significantly less somewhere. I would like a little feedback before I commit to this.
The heads are going on a 75 350 with about 2000 miles on a rebuild, which is currently residing in a 79 T/A.
Thanks to all.
Jim

70cutty

It might seem like too much but IMO it's in the ballpark. I just had a set of BBC iron heads reworked, fully ported, bigger valves installed, the cost was $1400.
I supplied the valves (Ferrea $310), Springs ($112), spring retainers ($71) and rocker studs ($60).
The problem was finding a shop that can do a good job and that's willing to work on iron heads. If this wasn't for the number matching BBC for my chevelle, I would've went aluminum without thinking twice.

If you wanna go with aluminum talk to cuttlasefi or bernard mondello, I'm sure both of them can set you up with aluminum heads cheaper than that. Cutlassefi is on the forum here and Bernard Mondello (no to be confused with Mondello performance) can be reached at (951) 371-1432.

boese1978

I spent a hair less than that for a set of Mondello's Pro comp aluminum heads with HD springs for a roller set up, machine work for fuel pump clearance as well as cutting for fitment.

bigdooly

Thanks for the responses will take this into consideration.

bigdooly

The shop is local and I am confident in thier work. Thanks for the response.

Kennybill

Hmm, here I go again, (:•》I have a set of #6s that are big valved, exhaust crossovers filled, exhaust divider welded, ported, decked, everything new. Done by G&G Engineering by Cleveland, OH. Senior Gary "Wojanowski" and Junior Gary "WoJo" are famous Oldsmobile Gurus and Olds racers. These guys were the "Big Dogs" @ the Mondello then Miller Oldsmobile meet at Norwalk for many years. I was working a deal on a 1969 Cutlass years ago, to make a "tribute" W31 using these heads but the guy selling changed his mind. Did I mention, I'd sold him the car in the first place, ha ha. 12 more years go by, Deja Vu, all over again. So chances are at this stage of my life, that dogs not going to hunt. If you, or someone else, wants to talk, pm me. I have some paper work on the heads but not the flow sheet. These heads really should go on a W31 and raced. $1300

bigdooly

Kenny I'm at work I will call you later .
Jim

joe_padavano

"Port polished is a pretty subjective term, but the process is time consuming and thus labor intensive. I paid $1100 recently for C heads to get hot tank, magnaflux, seats, stainless valves, teflon seals, surfacing, and assembly. An additional $800 for port work is not unreasonable.

bigdooly

Thanks for feedback Joe.
I am up in the air on my next move.
The motor in question is in a 79 T/A.
I want to give it a little more oomph.
It is currently sporting #8 heads, a mild cam &
flat top pistons .30 over. It has about 2000 miles on it. It was originally built for my Delta 88 conv.
It was on a stand and painted gold when the T/A's 403 seized. So in it went.
I also had planned on a 200r4 and a set of 373's.
This car is not going to be drag raced.
I want a fun cruiser that will respond to right foot.
(It's actually my wifes car)
This gave me the excuse to acquire a 455 for the Delta.
Jim

Noel Anderson

Is your TA using the stock hood? I think if you use aluminum heads on a small block you will have to use an Edelbrock Performer RPM. Which I also think will be taller than a stock intake which might not work if you use a RAM Air Hood. I could be wrong though, so verify what I say.

Noel

bigdooly

The Olds 350 performer will work perfectly.
I had a used one on it that I pulled of one of the many Delta 88's I parted. It worked well with the shaker. For some reason it would not seal in the center, causing vacuum leak. I got a new one in the box from another member.

Noel Anderson

I was referring to the Performer RPM and not to the regular Performer. I believe the Performer RPM must be used with the aluminum heads due to intake port alignment issues when used on small blocks. The aluminum heads were designed for big blocks, even though they can be bolted onto small blocks.

Noel

joe_padavano

^^^This. The available aluminum heads are all BBO heads with BBO sized ports and large chambers. You'll need to port match the Performer RPM and also you'll need to cut the heads or use flattop pistons to get CR where it needs to be. And with most aftermarket aluminum heads, the fuel pump won't clear without grinding on the head.

bigdooly

Ok thanks for clarifying.
I may stick with the cast iron heads.

cutlassefi

A few things. Which “flat top pistons” do you have? Your compression may be too high for pump gas.
Yes aluminum heads will require either the Edelbrock 7111 or Victor. The std Performer will not fully cover the intake port.
And don’t pay anyone to port your heads without a before and after Flow sheet on YOUR heads, not some “just like it”. There’s a popular Olds shop out there now that is doing that same thing, no flow sheet, this is what “they flow normally”. Beware.

Hope this helps.

bigdooly

I did read about the fuel pump issue on the aluminum heads.
I was not aware of the intake issues.
This all helps.
Thanks to all of you.
Jim

olds 307 and 403

Consider the #8 heads with bowl work and a 2.07" intake valve. I assume the Speedpro flat top pistons were used. Could the Performer be welded on top of the ports to work with aluminum heads? Good part about the Procomp heads start with big chambers and can be adjusted to the cam and octane you want to run.

Inline

My .02€. Due to fixation to dual-quads i vent the route of fully ported and refreshed iron heads, due to fact the intake i used didnt match to aluminium head ports.
Hear a Word of experience; next time around ill buy aluminium heads and custom-made intake manifold. Ends up not too far price-wise, and results are better for sure.
Not that i regret it or be disappointed; but thats wiser decision to make from ( my) experience.

AZ520

Dang, get aluminum, same price without the weight.

coppercutlass

Its in the ball park. I think J&S machine has better deals and Jim is a nice guy. How much porting do you need ? What's the useage ?. I ran well into the low 12's with #6 heads with Just big valves and bowl work. One thing to consider with aluminums is you will need an intake with enough material to match the opening of the aluminums since they are BBO size. I think the RPM is one of them and the Holley Street dominator intake. I couod be wrong. My current heads have had extensive work done to them #6 irons on my 355 and im runningn11.80's. So far. I think the olds head with big valves and bowl work should be able to support 400 HP

bigdooly

This is not a race car it is a 79 Bandit T/A
I bought my wife. It is a cruiser. But it needs a little more under the hood.
Carb & intake choices limited due to shaker. I recently acquired a new in the box edelbrock 7111.
I had one that would not seal for whatever reason.
It worked with qjet and shaker.
I may forgo the porting & polishing.
It is an underpowered car from day one.
Original 403 seized. Now running a 75 350 .Still underpowered.
The original 403 card has been jetted and richened up. It is running a mild cam. The engine runs well but needs a little more oomph.
I also hate 3 speed transmissions. I am considering a 200 4r worked, and some 373's to replace the th350/ 273's.
I figured while I have the heads in the shop to go wild on them, but there must have been a mis communication of what I wanted, or thought I wanted done to them when I got original quote. ($600 stock rebuild, $900 to do them "nice")
At this point they are in limbo as good tested cores.
I would like a nice cruiser that if you do step on it, it will go.
I missed the machinist today.
I need to talk with him in person and figure this out.
Thank all of you for your input and advice.
Jim

cutlassefi

Hope this helps.

olds 307 and 403

The #8 heads flow 190/120, not great. There is a lip under the exhaust valve, a bowl hog under both intake and exhaust valves with either a 2" or 2.07" intake valve should push the flow to 210/160. Also mill the #8 heads a bit more to make sure you have at least 9 to 1 compression. Stock torque converter? That makes a huge difference in launch, stock is 1600 to 1700, no good. A new 2000 to 2500 is a night and day difference even with the 2.73 gears. What cam are you running?
​​​​

Gpc1

How much can you mill the #8 heads and if you do will you have to use shorter push rods?
also intake fit might be a problem? I’m thinking of doing this along with a new cam so just curious
thanks

olds403

We have three Trans Am's all with various 403 motor combos. These are set of heads my brother had done. I think the work speaks for itself and have the flow sheets. I had a set done by another shop for my dads 424 stroker motor and had them redone by the shop that did these heads for my brother used. The set my dad had done was crap and everything went into the junk pile minus the casting.

$1900 is on the high end for what we had done to these #6's in the pics, but with shipping both ways probably pretty close too it. I had two sets of #6's done last year and this is full port version. I think it just depends what all you want to do with motor and the rest of the combo
These heads are 63CC and are for a TRW Old Stock Forged Zero deck short block my brother built up a long time ago (never fired) and arguable the best budget short block you can make. Just that finding those pistons are next to impossible now (I have a spare NOS set).

If you need more information on my trans am builds PM me. I am very busy as this time of the year and on shutdown - the only paid two weeks off I get a year.

brownbomber77

Edelbrock heads are $1500 now at Summit....

coppercutlass

1500 plus....... All the incidentals. Closer to 3k set up you won't want to use old stock bolts . you will still need a shop to check them and correct them. Then if you are going Sbo you got a few obstacles to work around. You won't want cheap rocker arms It adds up fast. Im not saying its not worth it but keep the added cost's in mind. That's not to say this does not apply to iron heads but im running cheap ford stainless rocker arms on my iron heads. I would not want then on something like aluminum heads after spending that kind of money. Most people are not willing to take that risk to even run a speedmaster ford rocker arm on their iron heads.

bigdooly

I think the aluminum head idea is on ice.
I am not building a race car.
I want to perk it up a little.
I wont invest 3k on heads.
I would rather spend the cash on an overdrive trans and gears. I will replace the #8 heads. They have about 2k miles on them.
How far i go on the #5's is yet to be determined.
I have some reading to do.
Thanks again for all the input

cutlassefi

I don’t see where everyone gets 3k from a base price of $1500.00.
That would make me wonder if anyone has ever really seen these heads as they come out of the box. The casting is quite good, and the valve job is decent, not great but very useable.
They come with studs and guide plates, and you’d have to buy gaskets, pushrods and other incidentals if you did a head swap anyway.
Figure $350.00 for rockers, $85.00 for bolts. That’s a far cry from 3K even with the needed electric fuel pump conversion.

bigdooly

not sure what cam is in it it was built a while ago and sitting on a stand. I have the build sheet I will have to look it up.
400 hp would be nice. Even 350 would be good
it was a 180 horse motor I believe new.
It is supposed to be 265 -275 now.
I have no way of knowing.
On the highway she goes, off the line there is room for improvement.

OLDSter Ralph

^^^^^^^^^^^------

coppercutlass

It all comes down to variables mark. I personally have not run them but for what I would need and want knowing what I know the numbers are always north of 2500. Opening the intake isn't that time consuming but to be done right you have to blend it in. Assuming one would take care of the mis match in port height. I just dont see it as a clean cut swap with minimal cost.

cutlassefi

Ok but I still don’t agree with your math, at all.

olds 307 and 403

Do you have a stock torque converter? My 70S with a mild 214/214 cam 9 to 1 350 with a Performer intake, Custom Qjet, 2300 flash stall, rated at 2200 to 2500 with 2004R trans and 2.78 gears would do 1/4 block burnouts just hitting the gas. My Daughter ran the trans low and cooked it. I put in the stock TH350 with the stock 1700 flash stall converter. Same performance you described, everything had to be perfect to even spin the tires at launch and just blah of the line. On the highway much better. Spend around $100 for the Jegs 2000 to 2300 stall converter, or the 2300 to 2700 stall for similar cost if you haven't upgraded. Good reviews, it is the lug style needed for an Olds V8.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60402/10002/-1&ved=2ahUKEwiW-eGp98bmAhVYHM0KHeN4CmgQFjAAegQICBAD&usg=AOvVaw1YC9 vgDg4KVBd1QM2yqcPN

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...heisFYmkbMd0-f

bigdooly

I would have to assume it is a stock converter. I haven't messed with trans or converter.
I plan on putting an overdrive trans in the car.

olds 307 and 403

Also my #6 heads, while not ported have 2.05" intake valves and stock 1.56" exhaust valves with the bowls opened with a cutter, so better than stock. Even if a bowl hog cutter was used on your #8 heads they will flow 200/170, hopefully your shop had enough brains to do that.

olds 307 and 403

Trust me, the converter is the difference maker. Do the 2004R and the gears next, at least 3.42 gears with a stock tire height. I run 1750 rpm at 60 mph and just over 2000 rpm at 70 mph with 225/70R14 tires, 26.3" tall with a 2004R and 3.42 gears. I am putting the 350 from my 70S in my 88 Cutlass, doing a 424 SBO for the 70S. The 350 with shorty headers, 2.5" dual exhaust and the 2300 stall converter for my 88 CSC. It should be fun to drive with the A/C serpentine conversion, cruise, should get 20 mpg, 14's in the 1/4 and do burnouts at will.

bigdooly

Not sure what if anything was done to #8's.
The reason I have not just gone ahead with the head work is because I want to do the trsns / gears also. I will assume 8's are stock.
As far as converter is concerned will the same converter from a th 350 work with a 2004r?
I ask because the trans is a little wet, if I pull it to reseal it and try the higher stall converter, I would hate to buy another when I do swap the tranny. Back to the heads,
I spoke with Kenny , the 1st response to this post, about his 6 heads. Maybe we will do something .
The car is currently on my lift, with the front end disassembled. I am installing a pro touring f body steering box and all new front end parts.
I even took the pump apart and cleaned it all out and bought a reseal kit.
in order to remove the left lower control arm rear bolt I had to remove the header, as the tube blocked the bolt from coming out. So I figured I might as well do the heads for that reason, and the fact that it is not old car weather at the moment.
I though I'd be done by know, but, "**** happens" as they say,. I will look for the build sheet and talk to the guy who built the engine when I get a chance.
Thanks for your response.
You and everyone else.
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays.
Jim

Gpc1

The 200r4 has a lock up torque converter, you can’t just use the 350 converter. Others on here know where to get one so I’m sure someone will post the info.
best regards

Kennybill

This is a buy, plus $100 off, code word "lastweek" Plus free shipping.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60519