330 Harmonic Balancer
November 9th, 2012, 07:46 PM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Minnesota
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330 Harmonic Balancer
Are all 330 harmonic balancers the same?
Mine was shot, many years ago it must have gotten oil soaked and the outside part of it with the timing mark had spun.
I hadn't driven the car in many years and now I've got her out and about again. So I forgot about the harmonic balancer being shot until I decided to do a tune up check and couldn't find the timing mark. Then I remembered what had happened so many years ago, in fact it was so bad now that the outside part could be spun by hand with no problem at all.
So I bought another balancer for a 330 and it didn't look exactly the same as mine, but I figured they must all be the same and I put it on, no problems there but I still can't time the ignition. The mark is so far away from where it should be that the engine would die if I'd try to put the mark on 7.5 degrees.
So before I bought the other balancer, I just timed it by ear and it runs great but I'd like to know where I've got it set. I was excited to get the new balancer and got it put on and still can't tell where I've got the timing set.
This one does not look dramatically different from the orginal one, so my question is, are they all the same?
And if so, why can't I put my timing mark on the grid without killing the engine?
It runs really nice, lots of power, starts great.
Maybe I just have my distributer installed a couple teeth off?
Mine was shot, many years ago it must have gotten oil soaked and the outside part of it with the timing mark had spun.
I hadn't driven the car in many years and now I've got her out and about again. So I forgot about the harmonic balancer being shot until I decided to do a tune up check and couldn't find the timing mark. Then I remembered what had happened so many years ago, in fact it was so bad now that the outside part could be spun by hand with no problem at all.
So I bought another balancer for a 330 and it didn't look exactly the same as mine, but I figured they must all be the same and I put it on, no problems there but I still can't time the ignition. The mark is so far away from where it should be that the engine would die if I'd try to put the mark on 7.5 degrees.
So before I bought the other balancer, I just timed it by ear and it runs great but I'd like to know where I've got it set. I was excited to get the new balancer and got it put on and still can't tell where I've got the timing set.
This one does not look dramatically different from the orginal one, so my question is, are they all the same?
And if so, why can't I put my timing mark on the grid without killing the engine?
It runs really nice, lots of power, starts great.
Maybe I just have my distributer installed a couple teeth off?
Last edited by 64OLDSPILE; November 9th, 2012 at 07:54 PM.
November 10th, 2012, 06:44 AM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Medford, Oregon
Posts: 13,719
All 330 balancers should be the same. Some 330's didn't have balancers but since you removed one yours must have come with one. There is an early 350 balancer that looks similar, but I don't know if the timing marks are different on them. Did you already toss the bad one? If not when you put the two side by side do you see any differences? Can you post a picture of this balancer? The distributor shouldn't make a difference on the timing mark, if you put it in a tooth or two off you'd just need to rotate it or move the wires around until they're in the right location.
John
John
November 10th, 2012, 08:18 AM
#4
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Joe P. or anybody else who really knows the 1964's online???
November 10th, 2012, 08:42 AM
#5
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
All have a balancer, as defined by the offcenter chunk of cast iron backside of the hub. Serves to balance the crank.
This hub may or may not have a DAMPER ring outside of it. Generally, pre-68, this goes hand in hand with 2bbl vs 4bbl
The following types might be found:
'64 Balancer
'64 Damper/Balancer
65-67 Balancer
65-67 Damper/Balancer
The 425 is listed in the PN manuals as using a different PN, but to me the 425 and 330 damper/balancers look the same. Same size weight blob, etc. The '64 tabs have to be different, of course, being mtd on the RH side. And a tab for a damper/balancer [larger OD] will differ from a tab for the small-OD damperless balancer.
You can (and should) verify your current damper's timing mark with say the positive piston stop method. I have used a tool made from a spark plug case and a bolt to make a quick piston stop. Then, with the timing mark verified and a tab that matches your damper, setting the timing should be easy.
How the teeth are engaged at the distributor to cam has nothing to do with getting the spark at the correct crankshaft position. That is compensated for in the setting of the timing.
This hub may or may not have a DAMPER ring outside of it. Generally, pre-68, this goes hand in hand with 2bbl vs 4bbl
The following types might be found:
'64 Balancer
'64 Damper/Balancer
65-67 Balancer
65-67 Damper/Balancer
The 425 is listed in the PN manuals as using a different PN, but to me the 425 and 330 damper/balancers look the same. Same size weight blob, etc. The '64 tabs have to be different, of course, being mtd on the RH side. And a tab for a damper/balancer [larger OD] will differ from a tab for the small-OD damperless balancer.
You can (and should) verify your current damper's timing mark with say the positive piston stop method. I have used a tool made from a spark plug case and a bolt to make a quick piston stop. Then, with the timing mark verified and a tab that matches your damper, setting the timing should be easy.
How the teeth are engaged at the distributor to cam has nothing to do with getting the spark at the correct crankshaft position. That is compensated for in the setting of the timing.
November 10th, 2012, 09:48 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Minnesota
Posts: 38
Alright, thanks for the info guys, my guess is this one is not from a 1964. So in the mean time I'll scribe a new TDC mark on this balancer and this winter I'll be having mine rebuilt. Thanks again, I would not have thought of where the timing index would be located on other year 330s.
November 10th, 2012, 09:54 AM
#7
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Medford, Oregon
Posts: 13,719
All have a balancer, as defined by the offcenter chunk of cast iron backside of the hub. Serves to balance the crank.
This hub may or may not have a DAMPER ring outside of it. Generally, pre-68, this goes hand in hand with 2bbl vs 4bbl
The following types might be found:
'64 Balancer
'64 Damper/Balancer
65-67 Balancer
65-67 Damper/Balancer
The 425 is listed in the PN manuals as using a different PN, but to me the 425 and 330 damper/balancers look the same. Same size weight blob, etc. The '64 tabs have to be different, of course, being mtd on the RH side. And a tab for a damper/balancer [larger OD] will differ from a tab for the small-OD damperless balancer.
You can (and should) verify your current damper's timing mark with say the positive piston stop method. I have used a tool made from a spark plug case and a bolt to make a quick piston stop. Then, with the timing mark verified and a tab that matches your damper, setting the timing should be easy.
How the teeth are engaged at the distributor to cam has nothing to do with getting the spark at the correct crankshaft position. That is compensated for in the setting of the timing.
This hub may or may not have a DAMPER ring outside of it. Generally, pre-68, this goes hand in hand with 2bbl vs 4bbl
The following types might be found:
'64 Balancer
'64 Damper/Balancer
65-67 Balancer
65-67 Damper/Balancer
The 425 is listed in the PN manuals as using a different PN, but to me the 425 and 330 damper/balancers look the same. Same size weight blob, etc. The '64 tabs have to be different, of course, being mtd on the RH side. And a tab for a damper/balancer [larger OD] will differ from a tab for the small-OD damperless balancer.
You can (and should) verify your current damper's timing mark with say the positive piston stop method. I have used a tool made from a spark plug case and a bolt to make a quick piston stop. Then, with the timing mark verified and a tab that matches your damper, setting the timing should be easy.
How the teeth are engaged at the distributor to cam has nothing to do with getting the spark at the correct crankshaft position. That is compensated for in the setting of the timing.
Thank you for the clarification. I've wondered why some had the "blobs" while others had the damper.
John
November 30th, 2012, 09:51 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
lower hose exits to opposite side on 1964 and maybe some 65's you can also contact FUSICK olds specialist they can or will know who can recondition your old unit. Also check HEMMINGS motors there are a number of companies who rebuild balancers to new spec.
December 1st, 2012, 05:50 AM
#11
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,446
No, you can't use a newer balancer and timing tab unless you ALSO change to a 1965-up water pump, which means changing the radiator outlets and accessory drive.
December 2nd, 2012, 08:06 AM
#12
Kjr442
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,667
All have a balancer, as defined by the offcenter chunk of cast iron backside of the hub. Serves to balance the crank.
This hub may or may not have a DAMPER ring outside of it. Generally, pre-68, this goes hand in hand with 2bbl vs 4bbl
The following types might be found:
'64 Balancer
'64 Damper/Balancer
65-67 Balancer
65-67 Damper/Balancer
The 425 is listed in the PN manuals as using a different PN, but to me the 425 and 330 damper/balancers look the same. Same size weight blob, etc. The '64 tabs have to be different, of course, being mtd on the RH side. And a tab for a damper/balancer [larger OD] will differ from a tab for the small-OD damperless balancer.
You can (and should) verify your current damper's timing mark with say the positive piston stop method. I have used a tool made from a spark plug case and a bolt to make a quick piston stop. Then, with the timing mark verified and a tab that matches your damper, setting the timing should be easy.
How the teeth are engaged at the distributor to cam has nothing to do with getting the spark at the correct crankshaft position. That is compensated for in the setting of the timing.
This hub may or may not have a DAMPER ring outside of it. Generally, pre-68, this goes hand in hand with 2bbl vs 4bbl
The following types might be found:
'64 Balancer
'64 Damper/Balancer
65-67 Balancer
65-67 Damper/Balancer
The 425 is listed in the PN manuals as using a different PN, but to me the 425 and 330 damper/balancers look the same. Same size weight blob, etc. The '64 tabs have to be different, of course, being mtd on the RH side. And a tab for a damper/balancer [larger OD] will differ from a tab for the small-OD damperless balancer.
You can (and should) verify your current damper's timing mark with say the positive piston stop method. I have used a tool made from a spark plug case and a bolt to make a quick piston stop. Then, with the timing mark verified and a tab that matches your damper, setting the timing should be easy.
How the teeth are engaged at the distributor to cam has nothing to do with getting the spark at the correct crankshaft position. That is compensated for in the setting of the timing.
December 3rd, 2012, 01:15 PM
#13
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SW Minnesota
Posts: 38
I'm not sure why, but it's there in the service manual. I'm sure somebody here knows.
December 5th, 2012, 04:14 AM
#14
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5
Joe you are correct I took for granted that interested parties would understand that they would need to use the corresponding year water pump since it has been adressed in previous post that the lower hose and timing mark and tags were opposite (respectively) in 1964 in relation to newer years. You could also purchase a degree wheel kit and scribe a new mark in an old harmonic balancer to correspond with a timing tag of choice or even fabicate your own and indexit accordingly.
December 5th, 2012, 07:02 AM
#15
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,446
Understand. Unfortunately I've learned over the years that you can't take anything for granted in an on-line forum. If a statement can be misinterpreted, it will, so I try to be as complete and exact as possible. We continue to see people quoting some of Chris Witt's acerbic humor from the 1990s in the Olds FAQ and taking it as gospel truth or even distorting it. There was a thread on this forum not too long ago where the O.P. swore that based on what the FAQ said, only W-30s got boxed rear control arms. 
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