PGH Cutlass

my cutlass has been cutting off on me(twice so far).the first time it happened i was about 1/2 a mile away from my house.when i was hitting the gas it started to bog out like i didn't have gas and just stopped running and wouldn't start.i had it towed to a shop and was told it was a ignition coil,so he replaced it.he added some power steering fluid and told me to add some radiator fluid because it was low.so i took the car home and the next day it was nice and sunny so i drove it for about 15min and parked.my buddy came over an hour later so i started the car so he could check it out.it was running about 5min then sounded like it was losing power and then cut off and wouldn't start.so all of a sudden i remember the shop guy telling me to add radiator fluid,so i waited for it to cool down and added the fluid and the car started right up.i owned the car for about 2months,its a 71 cutlass s with a 350 engine.i had a oil change,(tune up)new spark plugs and wires,new distributor and just had the ignition coil replaced,there were one or to other 3 to 5 dollar parts but i cant remember i gotta look at my receipt. Im putting the car up for the winter and i was just wondering if the radiator fluid would make the car suddenly stop running?is there something i should checkout or replace.thanks

MDchanic

No. Low coolant will not make a car stop running.

What will make a car that is running well stop running is loss of fuel or loss of spark.
What will make a car that is running well stop running suddenly is usually loss of spark.

You say you've replaced plugs, wires, distributor, and coil.

Why did you replace the distributor? Was it defective?
Did you replace a points distributor with HEI?
If so, is it correctly wired to a full 12v, and not to the ballast resistor?
Have you done the two most basic checks when a car stalls out and won't restart, that of checking whether you have a good spark and that of checking whether you have a good spray from the accelerator pump?

We need answers to these questions, and more, before we can provide useful answers.

- Eric

oldcutlass

x2 on what Eric asked???

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Is your fuel gauge working well? My fuel gauge died a couple weeks ago and i had to replace the fuel sending unit (was around 50 bucks from the Zone). I "thought" i had gaz, turned out i had less than a half-gallon and the car kept dying on me.

Also, check your fuel filter, in fact, dont check it, just replace it. It's worth the couple bucks and peace of mind just to change it if you havn't recently.

MDchanic

Except in cases of inexperienced mechanics (note radiator coolant question) who strip the threads out of the float bowl, and suffer significant setbacks to their peace of mind .

- Eric

frankr442

If you really want to start overthinking this, you could have a bad float or needle and seat, and actually be getting too much gas.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I dont think that would be overthinking it at all. I mean, how many times have floats needed adjusting..

Unfortunately, owning these kinds of cars, you end up working on every piece of the car, even if you dont want to.

My own carb (1405) right out of the box from edelbrock, wouldn't start no matter what i would do. (Eric, i think you might remember my thread that was going for awhile) Turns out the floats were bottomed out. I took off the top, adjusted them, and Voila! Car roared to life!

That would be bad... Especially if they'd use a pipe wrench instead of an adjustible...

PGH Cutlass

nothing was wrong with the distributor,i thought since i got the tune up why not get a new one.a local speed shop did the tune up and i also got header and exhaust done at that time.i will take some pics of the distributor,i dont know if its a points HEI.

import extermination

I know this might sound dumb, but did the car sit for a while.. And now its doing this?
Bad gas would deffinately cause a simular problem

MDchanic

Not dumb.

Smart, really.

- Eric

MDchanic

Ahhhhhh...

So part of the work done was to replace a perfectly fine part, and now you have a problem.

Was this a new or a used distributor?
If new, was it a reputable American part or a Cinese knock-off?

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Eric,

When they said distributor, maybe they just changed the cap/wires/coil, which to the untrained eye, they might be able to pass as a "new distributor". And who knows, coil could be defective out of the box.


PGH Cutlass,

If you look at the distributor cap (the black part when the other ends of the spark plug wires plug in), it should have one of the following.

On the black cap, if you have a small rectangular block sticking out, with wires coming out the bottom. (then chances are you have HEI.)

If you have a nice cylindrical type black cap, with a short wire coming from the middle and going to the coil. Then i'm guessing you have points.

All other things aside, If it ain't broke, Don't Fix it.

I hope those guys let you keep all your "old, worn-out" parts...

Jaybird

The problem could be the fuel pump. Do you have an in-line fuel filter. Do you see gasoline in there? Do you see air bubbles when you shut the engine off?

PGH Cutlass

i had that work done about 2 months ago(i brought a new battery too) an the cutting off happened last week.this was my first muscle car and i was riding the hell out of it.i had to have put 300 city miles on it in those two months.the distributor is new an i don't know the brand so i'm a check it out.the previous owner had work done and got the car painted in 1984,since then he just changed the oil and brakes regularly.he's only driven the car a few hundred miles since then,he owned the car since 1975.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

So instead of typing, i decided to make a pictoral representation of the different common distributors.

Points is for breaker points, HEI is for high energy ignition, other stuff please see wiki for references.

507OLDS

When it cuts off,do you have any lights or accessories,or any electrical power at all?
I had a similar problem with my 72,and I chased that for years.Every once in awhile,it would die,and you couldn't get any power,even if you jumped it.The problem ended up being the main fuse block came loose from the other half of the harness.You have 2 halves that fasten together,on each side of the firewall.Those 2 fastening screws came loose,causing the connection to loosen from each other.

Just a thought.

PGH Cutlass

thanks for all the help,im not very mechanically inclined so i take all my cars to the shop but i'd like to understand my two classic cars better an in time do small repair stuff.
the car didn't turn over twice before like the problem 507olds had but i brought a new battery an that stopped but i'll check the fusebox out thanks.the distributor looks like a point.i probably shouldn't have had them touch it,i just thought since everythings so old that replacing things could only help(is that a common novice misconception).hell i was just gonna replace the starter and alternator because there new but i'm a hit my brakes for now on that.

MDchanic

Yup, you've got a points distributor in there.
Larger pictures wouldn't be unwelcome .

We could still use some more information to help diagnose your problem -
If you could scroll back through our various questions and try to answer them, that would help us give you good answers.

Among many other things that could cause the problems you describe, a bad coil or condenser are definitely on the list, as well as the points wire having a bare spot and occasionally shorting to ground inside the disrtibutor.

- Eric

Jamesbo

Good call.

IMHO Throwing $$$$ and parts at a problem isn't a good idea.

Hang in there with us and someone will help you figure out what you need when.

rhaberm

Had a similar problem with my 69 Cutlass 350. Check fuel pump and all rubber hoses between fuel pump all the way to gas tank. Sometimes rubber hoses dry rot and cause a vapor lock. Good luck.

Bob

oldcutlass

It could be a pertronix also! Why not take it back to the mechanic that performed all the previous work. It may be related to something he did/or did not do!! It's hard to diagnose a problem if when we ask some simple question they go ignored! So as Eric mentioned above, please scroll back through this post and answer the questions that were previously asked.

PGH Cutlass

sorry for the small pics there from my phone,some come out nice size an some don't

Why did you replace the distributor?
just had it replaced with tune up

Was it defective?
no

Did you replace a points distributor with HEI?
no its points

If so, is it correctly wired to a full 12v, and not to the ballast resistor?
dont know how its wired i'll take more pics

Have you done the two most basic checks when a car stalls out and won't restart, that of checking whether you have a good spark and that of checking whether you have a good spray from the accelerator pump?
lol i went even more basic an called AAA then had the car towed home then 2days later to the shop(it stopped while i was driving).my receipt states vehicle had no spark prior to service,replaced ignition coil,system checks o.k. now.no other problems found at this time
i took the car home an the next day drove it maybe 20mins without a problem,then about an hour later i started the car and let it run. within 5mins the car started to just fade an then stopped.i just took the key out an went in the house,3hrs later i tried it an it started up

oldcutlass

I would think since its basically something the shop might have done that they would stand behind it! However, do you have a tach and dwell meter, timing light, basic hand tools?

The things I would make sure of first, is the choke working properly, do I have a spray of fuel when I look into the carburator and operate the throttle? Unplug 1 spark plug wire, stick a phillips head screw driver in the end, and hold the metal part of the screwdriver close to the block and see if I have a strong spark while someone cranks the engine (note the car will probably start and run with a miss). Those are the basics you need for the car for the car to run!

If you have a tach and dwell, you want to have the dwell at 30 deg, timing 12-14 deg btdc @ 1100 rpm with vacuum advance disconnected. Idle speed when your all done should be 650 rpm in drive!

1968Cutlassfallbrook

Does it crank but won't start? Or will it not even crank? What type of carb is on it? 2 barrel or 4 barrel? Also have you had the filter checked maybe it's clogged and will run and then stalls out when rust or whatever blocks it.

PGH Cutlass

im going to try that out and pick up a timing light,tach and dwell

PGH Cutlass

well it was a nice day today so i started the car up it did fine.i started the car for about 4min and then i took it around the block.the car was acting like it was going to stop on me when i wasn't hitting the gas an then it stopped.it started back up an i took it home but had to constantly hit the gas.does this sound like a bad fuel pump or carb?

1968Cutlassfallbrook

Well I'd check your oil to see if any gas is in the oil. If it is then you have a bad fuel pump Also have you checked the filter? Also how long has the carb been sitting? might need a rebuild.

Joffroi

I had the problem of my SX just dying randomly... in that case it was the fuel filter. Sounding like a lot of the same symptoms you described. I am not mechanically inclined either, so everything I figure out, I type up a tutorial for everyone else.

How to change a fuel filter. (on a 455, probably a little different)

MDchanic

It still doesn't sound like anything specific.

The symptoms you describe could be from lack of fuel or weak spark.

One test, since it seems to "fade" before it quits entirely:
When it starts to weaken, see whether giving it a quick pump of the accelerator (to spray a blast from the accel. pump) rescues it for a few seconds.
If your float bowl is low, due to bad fuel lines, fuel pump, or fuel filter, an extra squirt of the remaining fuel will make it seem okay for a few seconds, but if it's an electrical problem, it won't improve it.

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I dont know why he hasn't changed the fuel filter yet. I keep an extra in my glovebox just for situations like these.

PGH Cutlass

i change the oil filter and took the car around the block a few times.everything seems to be running great but there seems to be a new problem now.after the ride i turned the car off for a few minutes but when i went to start it up nothing happened.the light and everything worked fine but the car wouldn't crank or anything.after a few tries it started right up,it sounds a little like the problem 507olds was describing.a friend said something about a ignition switch,anyone have this problem before?

TripDeuces

Is that a ballast resistor in that picture? Do you have it double resisted and when it gets warm it shuts off? You already have a resistor wire (heavy cloth covered wire) to the points. Running it through another ballast resistor will do this.

oldcutlass

I believe he said it won't crank. It's probably a heat soak related starter issue!

TripDeuces

Read his first post. Says it shuts off while running and then won't start for awhile. I do think it's a heat soak problem but not with the starter. I have a Mallory Unilite system that eliminates points that did the same thing to me. The previous owner had a ballast resistor inline with the resistor wire. Although the Mallory unit requires some resistance the Pertronix models and HEI's do not. This is a common problem in threads like this.

oldcutlass

He said new problem.

TripDeuces

Which is the same problem without the engine cutting off. I'll stick by too much resistance until proven otherwise. There is a heat soak problem for sure probably coupled with bad grounds.

oldcutlass

Has he performed any of the suggestions in the above threads? I believe the only thing he did was an oil change, which is not going to get him any closer to correcting the problem/'s.
Trip I wasn't trying to question your thought process, just wondering if you saw his new problem.

TripDeuces

I did see the new problem but I think it's just an extension of the old. Being the climate has become cooler that can also mask heat problems. I don't mean to be confrontational but if I had a nickel for every thread on here involving ignitions, hard starting, bad running, lack of 12v, bad ground etc. Well you get the idea. I've said it before and I'll do so again, 99% of electrical problems can be traced to a bad ground. That should be a mantra for aspiring mechanics. At least it's not like a certain other forum where the response there would have been..........'I'd adjust the secondary air valve'. LOL I'd like to hear what the problem eventually is, keep us informed.

PGH Cutlass

can some one tell me what this is?

MDchanic

It's an engine.

- Eric

ps: That other thing is your horn relay.