coppercutlass

im really split between two cams for my new short block combo. My old one still runs great but i like building stuff over our long winter . I have a 72 cutlass with 3.73 gear, th400 with 2300-2700 stall converter. Car weights appx. 3400 lbs its gutted and has fiberglass front end . This new short block will be a 72 350 block with cast 425 pistons . Once i measure everything i plan on geting the compression right under 10 to 1 but no higher than 10 to 1 . Now i know i can do this and that with new forged pistons but im picking thses pistons and short block for well under the price of new pistons im very budget orientated. My heads and intake will cary over from my previous 350 they are 6 heads with 2.072 intake valves and 1.72 ex valves with some bowl work done and they can handle up to 550 lift and an edelbrock rpm intake. im looking to keep my current converter as i just installed it a few weeks back. I was wondering if the cams i have in mind will work good with what i have planned and what i have to work with . im looking at the lunati vodoo #60804 and comp extreme energy cl42-224-2 any thoughts ?

cutlassefi

Why not a roller?

coppercutlass

im currently running a single pattern cam. I want to try a vodoo since i hear they produce good vaccum for power brakes. I wouldnt mind going to a roller and i looked at a few cams and prices for retro fit rollers it's just too much for me . i currently run the 42-231-4 its the 280h cam works great but it bearly makes enough vacuum for brakes .

coppercutlass

i am planning on going to manual brakes but if i can still make enough vacuum with my new set up i wont . The only thing i run power assist is the brakes unfortunantly i will have to live with manual drums i wont have the money for a disc set .

cutlassefi

But just think from there on out you can change cams and keep using the same lifters.

Unless your heads flow upward of 260+ most of the fast ramp stuff isn't necessarily the best choice. You actually need more off the seat time to get things moving.

There are other ways to increase vacuum besides lobe profiles. And remember their vacuum is created by what? Restriction, so that same low rpm restriction can effect top end power if not done right.

An early intake closing along with ample exhaust duration will give you good vacuum and a broad power band. You have a 3.73 gear, how high are you going to spin it? That should enter into the equation as well.

coppercutlass

i looked at the xe284h . That would work great but i would have to get a new converter and that adds to the money i have to spend. I really want to keep that converter because i installed it and hit the strip it has 3 runs on it no street miles its a 2300-2700 stall . Im guessing that xe284h would need atleats a 3000 rpm stall. comp recomended a 2200 stall for the 280h im running and realisticly it would probably work much better with a 2500 rpm converter .

coppercutlass

@ cutlassefi it will be spun up to 6k rpm

cutlassefi

A single pattern or narrow dual pattern cam, in early, on wide lobe sep would give you a broad power band.
I'd grind you something like a 220/223 on a 112+6 or so. Don't confuse that with a W30or W31 cam. Those were very slow and lazy because of the slow ramps and late intake closing. Back when you had good you could run 10.:1+ and bump the timing to gain back some low rpm power.

coppercutlass

i was thinking of a custom grind. Dont know how much it would cost but im thinking this is probably the best way to go . i wont ask for a price on a post i'll pm you when im ready which wont be for at least two months. My builds usually take a while but i like to plan ahead and have all my ducks in a row .

bigD

having yer ducks in a row makes good sense! for what it's worth my '70 sedan (granny) has drum brakes and from what i've seen of them i have no desire to swap to disc brakes. she stays pretty straight and she'd put you into the windshield if you were cuaght offguard.

i have to agree about the roller cam! when you figure the state of motor oil today it just makes sense... if you are a stickler and add the zinc additives at every oil change it wouldn't be long and you have a roller cam paid for...

cutlassefi

No problem, it's the same for all,
$695.00 for a roller and lifters
$270.00 for a flat tappet and lifters, any grind on both.

If you're saving your money, you might seriously think about saving a few bucks more for the roller. I had 2 different flat tappets in mine then went to a roller, before I became an Erson dealer. I'll never do another flat tappet again.

Jmo.

coppercutlass

i just might have to give the roller a shot. Another question i forgot to ask is. will my curent vlave springs work with a roller set up ?

cutlassefi

What is the seat and open pressure and at what lift?

coppercutlass

I will have to find my paperwork on my set up tonight . I'll post the specs later tonight

firefrost gold

what about Doug herbert cams ???

coppercutlass

i have had good luck with comp i have built 3 engines in the last 4 years all had comp cams never had an issue . but it's time to try something new. i have always used off the shelf cams . I wanna get one made for my set up that way there is nothing left on the table with this engine as far as parts go .

olds 307 and 403

Exactly why 188cc intake runner Edelbrock's are not too big. They also flow 275 on the intake with the redesign, according to BTR's flow #'s. Big cam and high compression needs better flow than stock SBO heads.

coppercutlass

I have prw roller tip rockers

coppercutlass

I might go to a full roller rocker if I find a buyer for these.

cutlassefi

As compared to what? A non roller, another roller what?
Why is that a good rocker for a flat tappet, is it not a good one for a roller cam as well? Is this your opinion or do you have some solid pros or cons you can pass on. And are they easy to adjust vs other roller rockers, stock rockers?
And overall if a rocker is or is not heavy is only part of it. The weight of the rocker over the valve is the most important part.
Lots of questions yet in your statements.

307 and 403 - the only thing I saw Bill post was that the exhaust ports on the new Edelbrock seemed to need less material removed on his CNC program, otherwise they were the same as the old ones. I didn't see the intake info. I'd be interested in that, where is it?

coppercutlass

I don't know if I would go harland sharp but I like the prw . The prw are cheaper and I have had great succes with their products. I also run one of their sfi approved flex plates I got it at a poerformance expo at their booth for 65 dollars . I'm gonna try to do the same when the expo rolls through again they give awesome company discounts at these expos

coppercutlass

ok cutlassefi i dug up my paper work on my engine the valve spring pressure is 125@1.1775 and 298@1.300 and they are good up to 550 lift. i hope they work because i dont plan on changing them out . Not trying to be rude but im not dumping anymore money on these heads unless im getting them ported and i dont plan on doing that anytime soon. let me know if it work

cutlassefi

On the surface that looks fine. However what height were they actually installed at and where is coil bind. That will dictate whether or not they really will take .550 lift. Never assume, that'll get you in trouble.

We can do a .340 lobe lift roller if you like, but again you'll need to verify the spring specs first.

Thanks.

coppercutlass

installed height was 1.775 . i think im just going to go with a hydraulic flat tappet. i do plan on going with a cam from you . The roller would be great but i think that's money better spent elsewhere. Im gonna need new slicks for next year and they arent cheap.

cutlassefi

That's fine but you'll still need to verify the actual bind number, whether or not you go with a roller.
Based on your assumed installed height bind needs to occur at nothing more than about 1.165 in order for you to be able to have .550 lift.

coppercutlass

i have the build sheet for the heads . All the specs i gave you where as stated by rocket racing . Im positive it will be fine with 550 lift as it is what it states on the build sheet

cutlassefi

Gotcha.

olds 307 and 403

Go to page 9 of hardcore racing on HPO under new Edelbrock's. Bill used a bigger intake valve and a valve job.

TripDeuces

How much horsepower over a similar flat tappet cam will a roller give you? Assuming the specs are the same or at least close.

Jharken

IMHO, with a 28" tire and 3.73 gears with a 2500 stall you will want something that would peak before 6000rpms.

example:
28 tire 105mph 5700rpm 6% converter slip optimum rear gear ratio 4.27 gear.

27 tire 106mph 5700rpm 6% converter slip optimum rear gear ratio 4.07 gear.

I'm just giving example of how 3.73's are kind of a good cruise gear for a healthy small block.

coppercutlass

i run a 26 in. tire at the track actually its more like 25.6 according to mickey thompson. currently i trap at 103 at 5700 rpm roughly. i run 28 in. on the street

Jharken

You're current converter slip is 13%.With that converter you are dead on for gear and peak rpm with the 280 comp and 25.6 inch tall tire.

IMHO that converter is awfully loose for a 2500 or so stall.

coppercutlass

It's what it claims . It launches horrible 60ft is 2.0 . The advertised flash is between 2300 and 2700 depends on application and hp. If I stand on the brakes it will hold to 2000 rpm but I know that's when the converter starts to catch not fully engage

Jharken

Again IMHO,I would get a better converter in there that slips about 6% or so and flashes to 2500rpm's plus.You would be in the 12"s with what you have I would think.

coppercutlass

i know i have a 12 sec car. my issue is with driving on the street i dont wanna cook the trans or run the risk of it . it ran 13.3 multiple times. Im tempted to run the same set up for next year and get it in the 12's and still build my back up short block. Im planning on going with a 650 double pumper and actually using a tray on my ram air hood . My issue is i want to keep it's street manners . im also running on bone stock suspension with just boxed control arms and air bags . The reason for me building an other short block is to have a back up. Im planning on buying a house next year so this might be the last time im able to do something like this for a while.

Jharken

I have a 11"inch PTC I could almost give you.It had 6.8% slip and flashed to 2400RPMs with 3.90 gear and 27 inch tire and made 266hp to the wheels.

Remember converter flash will change some with gear and tire height.

I would think you would pick up some MPH and 60 ft.

Best 60 ft at track was 1.95 with vac secondary carb.

coppercutlass

i just installed the converter that's in my car that suppousedly stalled at 2300 - 2700 rpm and took out my near new tci 2000 rpm stall 60ft. stayed the same . what would you want for the converter .

coppercutlass

@joesw31 i know it's getting off topic but at least no one is arguing lol. i do have a th350 but it needs a full rebuild . it's just not a worthy cause for me to switch transmissions. i would also need a new driveshaft. I have given it some thought to go to a th400 but my budget is always limited so if it aint broke i aint fixin it .

coppercutlass

That would be nice. To me it's easier to build another short block with more cubes a little better cam and not touch anything else. Another thing also is i never intended for my current set up to stay together so long. it was built on a very low budget with some loose tolerances. I intended to build another short block this winter since last winter i spent my money on the top end .

coppercutlass

edelbrock rpm. with a half inch spacer . Although i do have a nice holley strip dominator intake sitting in the garage i just cant bring my self to miling it down to fit my combo right. Im waiting for the right build to use that one