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Hi guys.I have a question to ask in regards to using a deep sump oil pan.I’m rebuilding a 1981 5.7 olds diesel.I have everything back from the machine shop and I’ll probably be assembling everything in a couple weeks.
I have a new trw stock oil pump with milodon oil pump driveshaft but I don’t like those press in pickups.I would like to use the Moroso oil pump pickup since it attaches to the pump cover with two bolts and it has no chance of falling off but if I use that I need to use the extra capacity oil pan and requires a 8.25” pan depth.Can I use a extra capacity oil pan with a stock oil pump?I dont have any experience with deep sump oil pans,just stock capacity.That’s why I’m asking.Heres a picture of the pickup from moroso.Many thanks
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 28th, 2023 at 04:39 PM.
You can use a deep oil pan with a stock depth oil pump but it sort of defeats the purpose of having a deep oil pan. FWIW, I put a deep Moroso oil pan on my 455 and it dripped oil out the drain plug while still on the engine stand. I ended up swapping to a deep Milodon pan.
BTW, are you rebuilding that diesel engine as a diesel, or did you just use the diesel block for a gas build?
Last edited by Olds64; October 28th, 2023 at 08:26 AM.
You can use a deep oil pan with a stock depth oil pump but it sort of defeats the purpose of having a deep oil pan. FWIW, I put a deep Moroso oil pan on my 455 and it dripped oil out the drain plug while still on the engine stand. I ended up swapping to a deep Milodon pan.
BTW, are you rebuilding that diesel engine as a diesel, or did you just use the diesel block for a gas build?
Thanks for responding.I appreciate it.It’ll still be used as a diesel.I have arp main studs,rod bolts,etc.Zollner .030 pistons.I understand what you mean though in regard to defeating the purpose of the having a deep sump although I think it’s still a good idea to have a couple extra quarts in the sump.
Let us know what oil pump you use. Have you gotten your injection pump and injectors rebuilt?
The injection pump is new old stock from eBay and the pencil injectors are rebuilt.Accurate diesel in Michigan did the injectors for me.I had two sets rebuilt.The heads have new valves,guides and hardened seats.I had to do a lot of digging to find new valves.A guy I talk to from Illinois helped me find the exhaust valves.The intake valves are nos GM.
I plan to use the trw pump.I thought of welding on the pickup.The thought did cross my mind on doing that.The diesel gets pretty hot anyway so I was wondering if the extra capacity pan is a waste of time and money.I was thinking of either the milodon or moroso oil pan.
I’m also using AN fittings combined with braided oil cooler line hose with a Teflon liner inside with external oil cooler that I plan to use in front of the radiator.
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 28th, 2023 at 04:44 PM.
You can use a deep oil pan with a stock depth oil pump but it sort of defeats the purpose of having a deep oil pan. FWIW, I put a deep Moroso oil pan on my 455 and it dripped oil out the drain plug while still on the engine stand. I ended up swapping to a deep Milodon pan.
BTW, are you rebuilding that diesel engine as a diesel, or did you just use the diesel block for a gas build?
Interesting my Canton pan did the same thing with the drain plug, another gasket and sealant, will see if it leaks. Also didn't sit flat either.
I hope those injectors and the injection pump work well for you. Do you have a way to set the injection pump timing (i.e. a piezoelectric spark adapter)? The Oldsmobile diesel is quite similar to the International IDI in my 86 Ford truck. They both use a Stanadyne Roosamaster injection pump.
I hope those injectors and the injection pump work well for you. Do you have a way to set the injection pump timing (i.e. a piezoelectric spark adapter)? The Oldsmobile diesel is quite similar to the International IDI in my 86 Ford truck. They both use a Stanadyne Roosamaster injection pump.
Thanks for the reply.I have the snap on MT480 with new luminosity probe.I also had the Kent Moore static timing tool to scribe a mark on the pump adapter.I also hope the injectors work out for me as well.I’ve been collecting engine parts for the past few years for this rebuild.
I like the idea of using the milodon deep sump.I think I will buy one.I should have bought the windage tray as well with the extended studs milodon has on the market.I just have the regular length 455 studs.
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 28th, 2023 at 04:34 PM.
Post a pic once you get her buttoned up. You're on it like a rat on a Cheeto.
What car is this old IDI going into?
lol.🍻
It’s going into my fathers 79 C10 but I have plans to put it into a 1980 C20 chassis instead.It was always a diesel truck from the time he bought it back in 1981.The original failed after he bought it and he put a olds gas engine into it until the late 90s when we found another D block.
We then ran that engine until 2006 when we found the 81 engine in a Cadillac fleetwood.We rebuilt that one and put well over 150K on it but then it was parked for several years without starting and some of the injectors were causing us grief.I figured it would be a good idea to go through this engine one last time and go the full distance with it.
The rods will receive new bushings and arp rod bolts.The crank is .010/.010 now and I plan to use the sealed power rings with new clevite roller cam and nos ford lifters made in 1994.The block was all checked out and crack free.I’m just trying to keep the old diesel alive as there aren’t many left.
I’ll definitely post pictures when I start the engine assembly.
On another note I also have a 87 6.2 diesel I need to assemble soon that I’m waiting on from the machine shop.It’s being bored for .75mm federal mogul pistons,arp main studs.That engine should be ready for pickup sometime this week.It’s a crack free casting with 400K on it when I dismantled it for a rebuild.It’s an engine I plan to use for one of my 90s Chevy trucks.
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 28th, 2023 at 04:29 PM.
Kudos to you for putting the effort and money into the Olds Diesel and the 6.2. I would save my money on the extra capacity pan. The replacement TRW pump and pick up should be more than adequate. The pressed on pick up is used in millions of applications with out any issues. If you are concerned weld it as others here have suggested. The quality issues related to the aftermarket pans raised by other members would be my concern and is enough for me to avoid them.
Keep us appraised of you progress. I would love to see an Olds diesel back in service.
Kudos to you for putting the effort and money into the Olds Diesel and the 6.2. I would save my money on the extra capacity pan. The replacement TRW pump and pick up should be more than adequate. The pressed on pick up is used in millions of applications with out any issues. If you are concerned weld it as others here have suggested. The quality issues related to the aftermarket pans raised by other members would be my concern and is enough for me to avoid them.
Keep us appraised of you progress. I would love to see an Olds diesel back in service.
Thank you👍
Your definitely right.A stock capacity oil pan is more than adequate.When I do find time to assemble it,it won’t be a daily driver anyway.Just sort of head to McDonald’s for a coffee and over the highway for a nice ride.I used to run this engine daily at one point.It was in use 5 days a week putting over 100 miles on it daily.
I’ll certainly post pictures when I start reassembly.Thank you guys for your suggestions and reply’s.
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 29th, 2023 at 04:31 AM.
I'd like to see updates on the install of that 6.2l into your 90s Chevy truck as well. I recently drove my Ford diesel to Moore OK to a truck show. It was mostly Chevy trucks. I wanted to see an 80s Chevy truck with the 6.2l or 6.5l. Unfortunately, it seemed that there were just too many Cummins and LS swaps.
I'd like to see updates on the install of that 6.2l into your 90s Chevy truck as well. I recently drove my Ford diesel to Moore OK to a truck show. It was mostly Chevy trucks. I wanted to see an 80s Chevy truck with the 6.2l or 6.5l. Unfortunately, it seemed that there were just too many Cummins and LS swaps.
Your definitely right.There are more Cummins powered trucks around than pretty much anything else.Some 25-28yrs ago when I was in high school if you seen a diesel truck on the parking lot it was so cool and it was unique but now diesel trucks are everywhere…lol.I’m not fond of Cummins engines.They are robust and heavy duty but there’s something I’ve always liked about these old GM diesels.I mean everyone has a Cummins or duramax and there are millions all over the place.
I’ll definitely post some pictures of the 6.2 when I start assembling that one as well.One guy I talk to has mentioned the 6.2 block I have didn’t crack like most do as the rotating assembly wasn’t too far out of balance.I’ve read most 6.2/6.5 engines are way out of balance from the time they are assembled.
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 29th, 2023 at 04:47 AM.
I maintained a civilian government fleet of 6.2L and 6.5L engines. It was common for the harmonic balancer to shake it self apart.
Yes that’s true.I have a new acdelco harmonic balancer.My plan for the 87 6.2 is put the 6.5 timing chain set in it with reluctor for the crankshaft sensor signal since I have a DS4 equipped truck.I’ll also install a late 90s front timing cover.That way it’ll be ready if it needs to go into my 96 gmc truck.
Is that 6.5l timing set an actual chain? The International IDIs used by Ford ran a timing gear throughout their entire run (83-94).
I've read that the early 6.9l IDIs (83-85) could crack the block near the block heater boss. Thankfully, my 86 is new enough that I don't have to worry about that.😁
Is that 6.5l timing set an actual chain? The International IDIs used by Ford ran a timing gear throughout their entire run (83-94).
I've read that the early 6.9l IDIs (83-85) could crack the block near the block heater boss. Thankfully, my 86 is new enough that I don't have to worry about that.😁
Yes your right.The 6.2 and 6.5 use the double roller chain.The only difference is the 94 onward 6.5 uses a lower crankshaft sprocket with a built in reluctor for a crankshaft sensor signal.The 6.9 was definitely the better engine.Much more robust in alot of ways vs the 6.2 or 6.5.It’s definitely a medium duty diesel.The GM engines from the 80s and 90s were okay as I do like them but were only classified as being light duty.
Glad to hear yours is working great.The 6.9 is also like hens teeth.Very hard to find.
I don't know if I'd say it's running GREAT! It leaks more than both my 71 and 96 Oldsmobiles combined.
Lol.👍
The 6.9 is built pretty rugged though.GM cheapened out with the nodular iron cranks among other things such as nylon retainers to keep the rocker arms centered on the rocker shafts.1982-1984 6.2 diesels had the best rocker arm setup.It was far better than 85 and later engines.I have one of the early 80s rocker arm systems on my 96 gmc truck.I’ve been trying to find another set but they are hard to find.
Yeah the 6.2 and 6.5 were lighter duty but pretty problem free up to the Turbo days with lift pumps and controllers being their issues. The 6.9 and 7.3 IDI non turbo and turbo were all reliable. The later 7.3 Powerstroke were also very good. I saw some 6.9 with a ton of miles, actually needing Ether to start them being so worn. Then came the 6L and 6.4, yikes. I saw a few cabs come off and robbing EGR valves off new trucks to get customers going. I know the early 6.9 had issues with porous cylinders, actually had coolant push through the cylinder walls. Almost none of these old girls left.
Yeah the 6.2 and 6.5 were lighter duty but pretty problem free up to the Turbo days with lift pumps and controllers being their issues. The 6.9 and 7.3 IDI non turbo and turbo were all reliable. The later 7.3 Powerstroke were also very good. I saw some 6.9 with a ton of miles, actually needing Ether to start them being so worn. Then came the 6L and 6.4, yikes. I saw a few cabs come off and robbing EGR valves off new trucks to get customers going. I know the early 6.9 had issues with porous cylinders, actually had coolant push through the cylinder walls. Almost none of these old girls left.
The 6.4….yeah I think I’ll run far away from that one…lol.
Wasn’t aware the 6.9 had cylinder wall troubles.I know the 7.3 IDI did and they had to use a international coolant additive.Supposed to stop cavitation.
are we best friends? Or long lost family?
My pan is the exact same thing! But bigger!
Honestly people are like...oh...your too cheep to not just buy a milodon pan...
I know the 7.3 IDI did and they had to use a international coolant additive.Supposed to stop cavitation.
Right you are, sir. It was actually the 7.3l IDI that came out in 88 that was more prone to cavitation. I run a coolant filter pre-charged with SCAs in my Bullnose 6.9l truck though.
You mentioned you got a set of rebuilt injectors from Accurate Diesel in MI. Are they well rated on Detroit diesel forums? On the Ford truck forum I frequent (and an IDI sub-forum I occasionally look at) it seems there are only 2 online suppliers worth buying from. I'd love to hear first hand advice from somebody with an old IDI.
are we best friends? Or long lost family?
My pan is the exact same thing! But bigger!
Honestly people are like...oh...your too cheep to not just buy a milodon pan...
Right you are, sir. It was actually the 7.3l IDI that came out in 88 that was more prone to cavitation. I run a coolant filter pre-charged with SCAs in my Bullnose 6.9l truck though.
You mentioned you got a set of rebuilt injectors from Accurate Diesel in MI. Are they well rated on Detroit diesel forums? On the Ford truck forum I frequent (and an IDI sub-forum I occasionally look at) it seems there are only 2 online suppliers worth buying from. I'd love to hear first hand advice from somebody with an old IDI.
Seems accurate has a good reputation.I just hope these pencil injectors work out.One set cost me $900 to have rebuilt and tested.And I still have another set that was tested and good to go.
The first set I sent to them was nos GM injectors I bought from eBay years ago but 2 or 3 were bad right out of the box so accurate tested what I sent their way and 6 were perfect while 2 were faulty so I bought two remans from them to make up one set.That set cost me around $250 to have them all tested with two reman injectors added with freight back to me.
The 2nd set I delivered to them sometime afterward was actually 11 pencil injectors and the total was $900 to have those all gone through and sent back to me.
It might be awhile before I actually get this engine assembled and back in the truck but I’ll certainly let you guys know how everything goes with it.
Last edited by dieselolds81; October 31st, 2023 at 11:32 AM.
October 28th, 2023, 08:13 AM
