Rebuild the 330 or swap to 350 Chevy??
#1
Rebuild the 330 or swap to 350 Chevy??
Don't kick me but I'm considering a swap to a 350 Chevy in my Vista Cruiser. My 330 HC uses a little oil and is really sluggish, I've tuned it and just finally realized that is all I'm going to get out of it without major work, I know the car is heavy and don't expect a race car but I just want a little more out of it. Before I do anything drastic I will change the rear gear to a 3.08. Anyway, the engine needs a little work either way. I have several 350 Chevy engines sitting here in my shop ready to go, my biggest expense will be rebuilding a Chevy turbo 400 trans to go with the engine, although I do have a good turbo 350 here. If I do the swap it will be "long term temporary" with the plan to rebuild the 330 and reinstall it at a later date. I have pulleys and brackets to make everything work except for the a/c and will be using Chevelle headers that I already have.
I'm just thinking here, trying to decide what I want to do. Any thoughts on it??
I'm just thinking here, trying to decide what I want to do. Any thoughts on it??
#3
I'd keep it original...just my $.02...but if pulling the 330 out consider doing a leakdown test first so you know what is going on inside the motor and fog it heavily for storage so it doe not seize while sitting. The 330HC should be a decent performer, has it been confirmed that the balancer timing marks have not slid and that the timing chain isn't badly stretched.
The turbo 350 would be my choice vs. the 400 unless towing a lot or the SBC is a strong non-factory engine. The 400 weighs more.
The turbo 350 would be my choice vs. the 400 unless towing a lot or the SBC is a strong non-factory engine. The 400 weighs more.
#4
Your biggest expense will be all the nickel and dime stuff that no one ever keeps track of in a swap like this. Motor mounts, exhaust, radiator, accessory brackets, throttle linkage, hoses, wiring, etc, etc. A "free" motor isn't free.
An Olds 350 or 403 is a direct bolt-in and likely lowest cost if you are honest about all the ancillary costs and your time.
As for the TH400, be aware that the Vista has a boxed frame like a convertible. The trans crossmember attaches to welded-on tabs. These tabs do not extend far enough rearward to simply slide the crossmember back - you need to weld on extensions the way the factory did in 1967 when the TH400 was first offered in the Vista. Of course that also means a custom driveshaft and a new front yoke. FYI, the long wheelbase Vista used a long tailshaft TH400 like those in the full size cars, not the short tailshaft like other A-body cars. Also, since the crossmember has to move, you need to change the front and intermediate e-brake cables. You would need to get the ones for a 1967 Vista with TH400.
How's that "free" motor looking now?
An Olds 350 or 403 is a direct bolt-in and likely lowest cost if you are honest about all the ancillary costs and your time.
As for the TH400, be aware that the Vista has a boxed frame like a convertible. The trans crossmember attaches to welded-on tabs. These tabs do not extend far enough rearward to simply slide the crossmember back - you need to weld on extensions the way the factory did in 1967 when the TH400 was first offered in the Vista. Of course that also means a custom driveshaft and a new front yoke. FYI, the long wheelbase Vista used a long tailshaft TH400 like those in the full size cars, not the short tailshaft like other A-body cars. Also, since the crossmember has to move, you need to change the front and intermediate e-brake cables. You would need to get the ones for a 1967 Vista with TH400.
How's that "free" motor looking now?
#5
Actually, let me correct something I wrote. For some reason I was thinking your Vista was older than 67, but now I think yours is a 67, right? In that case the tabs for the trans crossmemeber are already there.
In any case, your biggest problem is the 1.76:1 first gear in the Jetaway. Simply swapping to a TH350, with the 2.52 first, or the 200-4R, with the 2.74 first, will make a dramatic improvement off the line. Standard rear axle ratio in the 67 Vista was 3.08. With the Jetaway, that's an effective ratio of 5.42:1 in first gear. With a TH350 and the same 3.08s, you get a effective 7.76 in first. With the 200-4R it's 8.44.
In any case, your biggest problem is the 1.76:1 first gear in the Jetaway. Simply swapping to a TH350, with the 2.52 first, or the 200-4R, with the 2.74 first, will make a dramatic improvement off the line. Standard rear axle ratio in the 67 Vista was 3.08. With the Jetaway, that's an effective ratio of 5.42:1 in first gear. With a TH350 and the same 3.08s, you get a effective 7.76 in first. With the 200-4R it's 8.44.
#6
Joe, my Vista is a 67 and already has a Turbo 400 in it, as far as all the bracketry, I have most if not all here already. I have been a Chevy guy all my life and have built many Chevy cars and have collected quite a stock pile of parts, but like you say I will need a few things. I didn't realize the Turbo 400 in my car would be the long tailshaft style. The radiator that I have will work, it is an aftermarket aluminum. With all that being said I would really rather find a nice Olds 350 and just drop it in but Oldsmobile engines are a little scarce, although I really haven't looked real hard.
What year Olds 350's would be a direct drop in?
Thanks, I really respect your opinion.
What year Olds 350's would be a direct drop in?
Thanks, I really respect your opinion.
Last edited by Toocool; July 7th, 2018 at 12:50 PM.
#7
All of them. Every single small block Olds from 1964-1990 is externally identical. The only difference is the crank flange bolt pattern. The 1964-67 motors require a different flywheel than do the 1968-1990 motors. Diameter and tooth count is the same, however, so there is no issue with starter type.
#8
Going from a 330 to a relatively stock 350 would not net any additional joy in my opinion. Going to a BBO (pretty much a drop in) or a BBC (same amount of work as an SBC) will put a smile on your face and a skip in your walk.
#9
The only reason I didnt want to do a BBO is because of all the trouble I had getting the right combination of pulleys, brackets and water pump on this engine (thanks again guys), I don't know if all these parts will work on a big block. Maybe I need to consider a big block??
#11
I have a few great running low mile 330's I would sell for great deals to keep one original.
email me direct
Larry
lemoldsnut@aol.com
email me direct
Larry
lemoldsnut@aol.com
#12
The only reason I didnt want to do a BBO is because of all the trouble I had getting the right combination of pulleys, brackets and water pump on this engine (thanks again guys), I don't know if all these parts will work on a big block. Maybe I need to consider a big block??
#13
The only reason I didnt want to do a BBO is because of all the trouble I had getting the right combination of pulleys, brackets and water pump on this engine (thanks again guys), I don't know if all these parts will work on a big block. Maybe I need to consider a big block??
#15
If this isn't a daily driver and you have time to have the motor out of the car, and you have a good amount of tools, I suggest rebuild. I'm rebuilding my 350 right now and the reason is because I like keeping it Oldsmobile, as well as you get to kind of make it your own. I will warn you though just like probably a lot of other people, Oldsmobile is expensive. There are some parts where just because it is Oldsmobile, it is twice as expensive. So maybe don't go with the 330 if you keep it Oldsmobile and go with some larger Olds engine just so you aren't wasting money on horsepower and torque you won't get.
End all be all it is your car. The economic choice is 350 Chevy. The crafty and involved choice is 330 or other size Olds.
P.S. go with a modern 350 Chevy, or a pre 73 Oldsmobile.
EDIT: Sorry didn't read the whole thing. Considering your situation, no question about it, Yes go Chevy. Rebuild kits for transmissions are pretty cheap.
End all be all it is your car. The economic choice is 350 Chevy. The crafty and involved choice is 330 or other size Olds.
P.S. go with a modern 350 Chevy, or a pre 73 Oldsmobile.
EDIT: Sorry didn't read the whole thing. Considering your situation, no question about it, Yes go Chevy. Rebuild kits for transmissions are pretty cheap.
Last edited by 87Brougham; July 8th, 2018 at 07:11 AM.
#16
If you do go with the Chitty engine, by all means try to install an LS series. You will have better economy, more power, and much better drivability. That in combination with the OD trans will make you much happier.
#17
I think this takes away his intent of "toss in and go". Haha. But this is exactly where my mind went when I saw it. It'll cost around $3,000 start to finish with engine, trans, exhaust, computer, converstion parts, fuel system.... I think that's it. You're right, though. In the end, it'll be like driving a modern car with decent fuel mileage, reliability, and driveability.
#18
He would need a 6L if he went LS, unless he put steep gearing in back, the 5.3 has no bottom end torque. Unless he has a Vortec headed 350 or aftermarket heads, roller cam etc, I see no advantage going sbc either.
#19
Besides, these cars weren't exactly unreliable back in the day. My father bought a '67 Vista Cruiser new that year, and he took the family all over the country in it, driving it from upstate New York to California once, Texas once, and Florida several times in addition to it being the daily driver my mother drove hauling us kids everywhere over the course of the four years we owned it. It never gave us any trouble with its 330 V-8 and 2-speed Jetaway. When it came time to trade it, he bought something even bigger, a '71 Custom Cruiser.
Last edited by jaunty75; July 9th, 2018 at 01:53 PM.
#20
Joe, he has the early style brackets. I remember his posts trying to find all the pieces and pulleys to go with them.
#21
Have you thought about changing the rear end gears? Many of these cars came with 2.56 and 2.78 ratio gears, great on the highway but not quick off the line. If you went with a 3.23 I think it would still be livable on the freeway, but be better off the line. If you'd consider an overdrive automatic like the 200R4 you could even go 3.90 for a much quicker response around town. Just another thought to consider. John
#22
Thanks guys for all your input. I am going to hold off for now. I am taking it on a long road trip in September, probably around 4000 miles total with some mountain, back roads and desert roads including much of Route 66. I just don't want any big issues on the road. I have put new tires, brakes, exhaust, water pump, radiator,fuel pump, carb, a/c, points, plugs, distributer cap, rotor and wires, and wheel bearings. Anything else that you can think of? The car looks great but was neglected mechanically .
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