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Transmission removal from under car vs pulling engine/trans as whole
I did do a trans removal/install previously on a Ford Exploder 4WD. Went well. However, with this car I'm planning the same removal process and I'm wondering if I will have the ability to reach what I need to get to.
I have plenty of clearance in the garage so I can jack this thing up as high as necessary. But I am wondering how well I will be able to get to the case bolts on the top of the housing. I'd ultimately like enough height for me to be able to sit up under the car. Am I dreaming or is this a possibility? If so, give me the process and I'm willing to follow it.
I'm just not so experienced in these things so you kinda have to give me baby steps. Sorry for that.
If you are a bit flexible you can sit on top of the engine, assuming you are careful about not breaking/bending anything, & pretty easily remove the top 4 bell housing bolts. You might be able to get the lowest 2 also but they would be easier from underneath. Or, if you do get it high enough to sit under it, some long extensions & a U-joint can be real handy also. I would be very wary of getting the car that high in the air unless it is on a lift.
However, with this car I'm planning the same removal process and I'm wondering if I will have the ability to reach what I need to get to.
Trans by itself is no problem. The top two bellhousing bolts are most easily accessed from the top. Don't forget to unbolt the converter from the flexplate.
I have plenty of clearance in the garage so I can jack this thing up as high as necessary. But I am wondering how well I will be able to get to the case bolts on the top of the housing. I'd ultimately like enough height for me to be able to sit up under the car. Am I dreaming or is this a possibility?
Unless you have a lift, you are dreaming. Do get the car as high as safely possible. Get one of these:
Don't even think about reinstalling a TH400 without a trans jack. I got mine from Harbor Freight for $149.
Trans by itself is no problem. The top two bellhousing bolts are most easily accessed from the top. Don't forget to unbolt the converter from the flexplate.
Unless you have a lift, you are dreaming. Do get the car as high as safely possible. Get one of these:
Don't even think about reinstalling a TH400 without a trans jack. I got mine from Harbor Freight for $149.
I had the same trans jack when doing that Ford. Except it was red with a white handle. Sold it on CL figuring I would never need it again. Guess I was wrong. It did work well, especially for the $.
So what's the comfortable limit? 6 ton jack stands for a truck? Those should give about 2 feet. Double locking here for $34 and change with free shipping. Beats Amazon by $22 a set. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Q&gclsrc=aw.ds
You need the car high enough so that you can roll the trans on the jack out from under the car. Two feet will be enough. I've done it with less. Too high and the trans jack won't reach, and the trans jacks designed for use under a lift won't go that low.
And NEVER, NEVER get rid of tools. That will guarantee that you need it again.
You need the car high enough so that you can roll the trans on the jack out from under the car. Two feet will be enough. I've done it with less. Too high and the trans jack won't reach, and the trans jacks designed for use under a lift won't go that low.
And NEVER, NEVER get rid of tools. That will guarantee that you need it again.
Haha...I've learned my lesson there. Now where is that Harbor Freight coupon...
And if you really want to know the worst thing of all, after the Explorer project I sold my compressor and all my air tools. That's some stuff I'd like to get back.
Ok, I have some good eyes on this thread and need your input. This car hasn't been ran, and I'm replacing the fuel tank in a week or so. After that, should I try to fire it up first before starting this transmission process?
I'm just a little unsure of the order in which to do things here. I need to verify that it will start since that is part of the new transmission install to get the fluid circulated, but starting it with the old transmission in could possibly be quite messy since it leaks and also might cause some damage to it since I was told not to start it until the bands were fixed. I'm stuck here and would appreciate your many years of expertise on this.
Pull the trans. Send it off for a rebuild. Flush the lines and cooler separately. Use compressed air(low PSI). Just enough PSI to drain the fluid out of the lines and radiator cooler. If you see chunks coming out then you may need to go further, e.g. pulling and replacing the lines (cheap) and flushing the system with fresh fluid through a low pressure method. Once the new trans is installed. Run the car for 1-500 miles then do another full trans service(fluid and filter). I recommend up grading the trans as your budget allows and using TCI synthetic clear trans fluid.
Ok, I have some good eyes on this thread and need your input. This car hasn't been ran, and I'm replacing the fuel tank in a week or so. After that, should I try to fire it up first before starting this transmission process?
I'm just a little unsure of the order in which to do things here. I need to verify that it will start since that is part of the new transmission install to get the fluid circulated, but starting it with the old transmission in could possibly be quite messy since it leaks and also might cause some damage to it since I was told not to start it until the bands were fixed. I'm stuck here and would appreciate your many years of expertise on this.
The engine can be started independently of the trans. Simply unbolt the torque converter from the flexplate, push it as far back in the trans as you can (about 3/4"), and fire the engine to your heart's content. You can do this with either the old trans or the new one in place. Once the engine is running correctly and the new trans is in place, slide the converter into position, bolt it up, and proceed to break in the trans.
Those are some good tips, but the issue that I have is that I don't even know if the engine will fire up at this point. I thought when installing a new transmission that part of the process was running it through the gears in order to get everything circulated. And I don't want to find out after the new transmission install that I'm in a no-start situation.
So my question is how do I test fire this car without making a mess? Is it possible? It has been sitting since 1982 so I'll take any pointers on what to replace. It needs new hoses and belts, but I might be able to defer after testing to see if it will start and get to those later. Is the antifreeze a 50/50 mix in these? And I'm assuming 93 octane or higher if I can find it...
The engine can be started independently of the trans. Simply unbolt the torque converter from the flexplate, push it as far back in the trans as you can (about 3/4"), and fire the engine to your heart's content. You can do this with either the old trans or the new one in place. Once the engine is running correctly and the new trans is in place, slide the converter into position, bolt it up, and proceed to break in the trans.
Ok, great Joe. That will do the trick. Thanks! If you have any additional info on what I just posted, specifically the belts/hoses issue since you solved the start issue...I'd be happy to hear it...(we were typing replies at the same time...)
And one more thing...I have the tailpipes off and am still awaiting replacement and am taking the glasspacks off now. Is it not advised to start the car without these in place? It would only be running for a minute, that is if I can get it running. Any harm in this process besides killing my hearing?
And one more thing...I have the tailpipes off and am still awaiting replacement and am taking the glasspacks off now. Is it not advised to start the car without these in place? It would only be running for a minute, that is if I can get it running. Any harm in this process besides killing my hearing?
There is no issue whatsoever in running without an exhaust, except for pizzing off the neighbors or spouse. What was your hoses/belts question? For a simple start-up test, you don't need 50/50 - straight water is fine. Just be sure to drain it completely if your temps go below freezing.
Heck, most people here have test-fired an engine for 30-60 seconds without even a radiator installed. A cast iron motor won't heat up enough to worry about (kids, don't try this with an aluminum motor...). For that matter, you don't need a fuel tank either. You can fill the carb float bowl using a syringe. Simply squirt fuel into the vent tube on top of the carb to fill the bowl. Be sure to disconnect the inlet hose to the fuel pump so you don't suck bad gas from the tank. The engine will run for 30-60 sec at least on the fuel in the bowl.
The bigger issue is priming the oil pump before firing.
Some very good advice. I don't know...I just don't want to mess anything up on this. Regardless of whether it is "my car" on the paperwork, it still is not "my car"...if you know what I mean. The kids all refer to it as "Pap-Pap's car." So I ask questions first because if I break anything, I'm messing up "Pap-Pap's car." And I'd hate to do that.
How many quarts of oil does this take? And what do you recommend? I'm making a trip to the parts store today so I'll stock up while I'm there.
Some very good advice. I don't know...I just don't want to mess anything up on this. Regardless of whether it is "my car" on the paperwork, it still is not "my car"...if you know what I mean. The kids all refer to it as "Pap-Pap's car." So I ask questions first because if I break anything, I'm messing up "Pap-Pap's car." And I'd hate to do that.
How many quarts of oil does this take? And what do you recommend? I'm making a trip to the parts store today so I'll stock up while I'm there.
How do I cure the oil pump issue you wrote about?
Five quarts if you also change the filter. The correct way to prime the oil system is to pull the distributor and spin the oil pump driveshaft with an electric drill, using an extension and 5/16" socket. This is good practice if the engine has been sitting for any length of time (ie, months or years).
Something I do on an engine that has sat for some time is to pull the plugs. After priming the oil system as Joe pointed out. then with a transmission fluid funnel put some oil (marvel mystery oil is good for this) in each cylinder. About 4 OZ is good. Then I turn the engine over with the plugs out and ignition disabled. This gets oil moving in the cylinders and coats the walls prior to running. Plus if there is an issue it will show up now if it is serious enough to stop the engine from running. Less chance of breaking things.
I will change the filter. So is it advised to avoid a synthetic or synthetic blend with these engines or should I pay the big money?
Also how long should I use the drill like you said? 10 seconds? 30? What am I looking for?
Why don't I just buy you a plane ticket and you can stay in Charlotte for a weekend to help me?
Just a good quality regular oil is fine. Ideally, you should have an oil pressure gauge hooked up and run the drill until there's pressure on the gauge. At a minimum you can turn the key to RUN and run the drill until the OIL light goes out.
If it were the weekend of the Charlotte swap meet, I'd take you up on that.
Something I do on an engine that has sat for some time is to pull the plugs. After priming the oil system as Joe pointed out. then with a transmission fluid funnel put some oil (marvel mystery oil is good for this) in each cylinder. About 4 OZ is good. Then I turn the engine over with the plugs out and ignition disabled. This gets oil moving in the cylinders and coats the walls prior to running. Plus if there is an issue it will show up now if it is serious enough to stop the engine from running. Less chance of breaking things.
Just another tip
Larry
Yes, that's another good one. Of course, expect to see a cloud of smoke at start up as this oil burns off. Nothing to be alarmed about, but expect it.
Just a good quality regular oil is fine. Ideally, you should have an oil pressure gauge hooked up and run the drill until there's pressure on the gauge. At a minimum you can turn the key to RUN and run the drill until the OIL light goes out.
If it were the weekend of the Charlotte swap meet, I'd take you up on that.
Luckily he has one of those handy oil pressure gauges under the hood. I bet you know why although I don't have a clue. Thinking it has something to do with tuning. I haven't taken a pic of that. I'll have to at some point.
And warn everyone else about it too. Just the white cloud from the water in the gas (ethanol) from sitting over the summer had one of my neighbours nearly call 911. I still get a lot of wary looks when I head out with keys in hand.
I like all of the tips and I greatly appreciate them all. Especially the ones that another member chimes in on and says they agree with. Because someone could tell me that I need to run jet fuel only in this car and I'd believe them. Okay, not that gullible...but really the experience that you guys have is worth so much here. I'm starting to get excited that this car will be able to run.
But first...there's also no battery. Lucky me. How many CCA's does this beast need to turn over? What size fits in the tray? I'd trust some handy dandy look up tool, but seeing as how I've already seen way too many Olds parts grouped in with Chevy and Pontiac parts, I don't trust any of those online or in store books or gizmos when it comes to part look up.
And warn everyone else about it too. Just the white cloud from the water in the gas (ethanol) from sitting over the summer had one of my neighbours nearly call 911. I still get a lot of wary looks when I head out with keys in hand.
THAT brings back memories. Back when I lived on the left coast, future ex-wife number one was driving my just-purchased 69 H/O back from Burbank to our home in Hermosa Beach. I was following in the 1972 442 since she really couldn't drive a stick. We had pulled over on the 405 near Mulholland Drive to reattach a heater hose that came off and as she pulled away from the shoulder a rod came out the oil pan. Five quarts of oil hit the headers, enveloping the car in a cloud of smoke. Shortly thereafter, a fire truck showed up, since apparently passers-by had called them. This was in 1981, before cell phones were common.
A good general rule is that you want a battery with about 150% of cold cranking amps compared to the cubic inches. So a 455 engine would need about 680 cca. This is what I learned in tech. school about 25 years ago. Not sure if that still applies to newer engines or not.
I like all of the tips and I greatly appreciate them all. Especially the ones that another member chimes in on and says they agree with. Because someone could tell me that I need to run jet fuel only in this car and I'd believe them. Okay, not that gullible...but really the experience that you guys have is worth so much here. I'm starting to get excited that this car will be able to run.
IIRC, jet fuel is a high refined form of kerosene ... and kerosene makes up a significant portion of Marvel Mystery oil... which lemoldsnut already told you to put in.
Change all fluids including the rear end. Then do it all over again after 100-200 miles. Flush the hell out of the cooling system. Flush the heater core separately with low PSI garden hose. Drain all tap water from the system/block. Refill with premixed coolant. Never run with tap water (except for what Joe mentioned). Of course replace the T-Stat along with all hoses n belts.
Do yourself a favor and run ethanol free gas. Especially after you have the fuel system and carb rebuilt. Stabil makes a couple of good fuel stabilizers. 2 are for storage, the pink and the blue marine. I prefer the blue. They have a new one that coats the fuel tank and another one for ethanol removal if you cant find ethanol free gas.
Replace ALL the soft lines/hoses in the car to include the fuel, coolant and brake systems. Flush the hell out of the brake system with a power bleeder(under $100 at Jegs or Summit, Motive is the brand).
For the engine oil, the oil should have high ZDDP content in it (Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate). Synthetics are not recommended unless the engine is freshly rebuilt(IMO). Synthetics will leak out of seals where dino juice wont. Synthetic wont hurt the engine it will potentially just be a leaker. Shell Rotella T is a decent cheaper dinosaur juice based oil with enough ZDDP. 10W40 ought to do ya or 10W30. The ZDDP will keep the cam alive. Valvoline makes a higher Zinc oil too. And there is always zinc additive (dont over dose with ZDDP)
Another good idea when awakening a car from a long hibernation is to go through the electrical system. Clean all the grounds and positives. Yank the starter and alternator and have both rebuilt. If its externally regulated (regulator on the fire wall) inspect the connections to it. Pull its cover and look at the 2 sets of contacts for burning. If it has the external reg, both the OEM style and a new updated solid state style are available. Just install the OEM Delco cover on the solid state to look stock. New correct battery cables are reproduced in both spring ring and bolt clamp styles. With all the connections clean the starting and charging system will be happy.
Any parts you take off the car that are OEM are potentially date coded correct parts for this car. Resist the urge of turning in anything for the core charge, rather put it in a box until its time to rebuild.
Repack the front wheel bearings too. And for god sake dont run the 30 year old tires.
A good general rule is that you want a battery with about 150% of cold cranking amps compared to the cubic inches. So a 455 engine would need about 680 cca. This is what I learned in tech. school about 25 years ago. Not sure if that still applies to newer engines or not.
Wow i wouldn't agree with that cca at all. Sorry no disrespect intended. I run 800 to 900. On a side note the lowest i ever used was 750 for three years. This is for 455 engines.Now maybe a i am wrong but this is what i have used. I would dump a stock starter in the nearest trash can. If it isn't a starter that has a special part number. The mini starter is the way to go period.POWER MASTER 9510.
Wow i wouldn't agree with that cca at all. Sorry no disrespect intended. I run 800 to 900. On a side note the lowest i ever used was 750 for three years. This is for 455 engines.Now maybe a i am wrong but this is what i have used. I would dump a stock starter in the nearest trash can. If it isn't a starter that has a special part number. The mini starter is the way to go period.POWER MASTER 9510.
Way back, I had an '89 Dodge colt. After the first couple of winter I decided to change out the stock battery. Took it over to Sears and asked for the best battery they could put in it. The guy looked at mean and smiled. It seems that Mitsubishi put a false battery tray made of plastic over the metal one. Lift it out and she took a MUCH larger battery. About 50% bigger physically. Blew my mind. They dropped in a Gold series battery too. Back then, the gold series used a different electrolyte that was less susceptible to the cold. Never had an issue starting until one night I went to leave for the graveyard shift. -40c, half the block's cars frozen solid. Well, I went out proud as punch .. knowing for certain my little shitbox would go. Well, pride goeth before the fall. Opened the door .. nice bright dome light. Yeah Baby!!! Turn the key ... a grind, a grunt .. then nothing. WTF? Turned out ... I had plenty of power ... but with the oil a thick sludge holding everything locked .. it was too much power for the poor little starter. Totally smoked it. To make things even more fun ... that tiny little starter .. mounted directly under the damn carb. Minus 40C ... not a hope in hell of getting in there. Total shamefaced. Had to get her towed to a garage, thawed and fixed.
February 3rd, 2016, 06:19 AM
