Super88chris

here’s my trans pan

Super88chris

there’s very little sludge in the pan and I saw very small amount of metal shavings. Here’s my valve body. I’ll have to look in the book for that 3-4 servo because I don’t know what it looks like and it’s getting dark out so I’m not doing anymore tonight. I’m hoping this valve body is sludgy inside and just needs a clean. I think the filter inside looks decent. That junk was on top of the filter just like that

Super88chris

I have been reading the book, I read on this governor that I was told to clean but it doesn’t make sense to me. Is this the governor?

Should I remove and clean the t pressure regulator valve? I think that one I can find

Wally

Chris, the amount of chips in the pan and on the filter concern me. All it would take is one of those small chips in the valve to hang up one of the spools. I would start by carefully taking the valve apart and cleaning it completely. Just be careful to make notes on which spools and springs go together. Once you have the valve torn down completely rinse the body completely, if you don't want to buy an Ultrasonic Cleaner, I would suggest you use paint thinner to rinse it out. Much less flammable than gasoline.
Wally

Super88chris

I can do that for sure. I’m just nervous about taking apart a governor. I don’t have paint thinner is rubbing alcohol ok? If not I guess I can grab some thinner

Charlie Jones

I noticed that besides a few metal flakes, there are several chunks of metal in the pan.
These may be from a badly abused parking pawl.
Since the parking pawl and the shift governor are in such close proximity, It's logical that a piece of the parking pawl could be lodged in the governor.
To be on the safe side, I would recommend using the parking brake when parking.

Super88chris

I didn’t feel any chunks just some gray sludge at the bottom. After I removed the valve body I moved that spring activated lever which I think is what your referring to as the pawl and it seemed to move smooth but I could be all wrong on what your talking about. I always use my parking brake and never park it in reverse

Super88chris

what would you say this o ring came off?

justacog

Was it in the bottom of the side pan? It could be the outer part of the shaft sealing gasket on the side pan. Some dimensions would help. Put a ruler next to it.

Wally

Chris, if you are working on the brake system, use denatured alcohol to clean things but if you are working on the transmission it is much better to use something like paint thinner.
Wally

Super88chris

it’s super tiny I’m not by it right now, I just got the valve body back together. I honestly don’t think I can do any more on the trans in these conditions. I can barely get the car high enough for me to get under it and do what I’ve done so far. I’m hoping this will work. There was a small amount of black stuff in the valve body but other than that seemed fine. One of those bigger size plug/plungers was a little bit harder to come out than the others. I’ll look in my book and see which one that was

Super88chris

yes bottom side pan

justacog

There is a super tiny o-ring that is part of the side-pan seal. It's the one that goes on the concentric shift control rods and seal between the inner throttle position rod and the outer shift rod. It sits behind a flat washer that is held in place by a small pin that goes through the throttle control shaft (the backside of the throttle control lever has a small groove that mates with that rod).

It's very likely that that tiny o-ring is that one. You can always check to see if there is an o-ring behind the washer (it's almost impossible to see and you have to look REALLY close to see it jammed back in there between the two shafts). If it's missing, your transmission will leak...quite a bit...out that shaft if it's never been replaced, I HIGHLY recommend getting a side-pan seal kit and making sure you replace the seal that goes around both shafts where the shafts exit the pan. That seal is a Mensa test to figure out the orientation of the 2 "cupped" washers and the seal itself. The good is, that if they are new, they are all reusable as you pull the side-pan on and off for the 22nd time ;-)

justacog

Yep. That looks like the one. Shifter shafts seal.

Charlie Jones

Here is some help naming the parts. These scans are from the Motor's Auto Repair Manual.

Super88chris

right on thanks for the visuals. All I took apart was the valve body, and it was difficult enough to do that, not because the actual parts but the conditions I have to work in. I didn’t want pull out anymore parts with the car only lifter a foot off the ground. But I put everything back together and I put in a new o ring. I’m positive the tv rod is a little bit off from the original adjustment it was at, because the gears shifted a little bit slower this time. I got it up to 45 mph at the most and still no 4th gear

Charlie Jones

Hopefully, you may get 4th gear once you adjust the linkage properly.
If memory serves me correctly, the lever on the trans should be all the way back (against the internal stop) with the throttle closed

Super88chris

there’s where I get confused, so with the throttle wide open, the tv rod should be pushing that plunger all the way in correct? I’ll check tv rod again later today. Is there anything I can put in the trans to help clean out that governor? Does that Lucas brand stop slip stuff ever work?

Super88chris

and I’ve been wondering about these heat cycles and what they do for the trans and how fast would I go if I can’t get 4th gear.

justacog

I understand wanting an easy solution, such as finding an additive that can magically clean the valve body/governor, but if the collective folks on this forum that seem to have collectively hundred's of years experience, are offering suggestions like Wally's above, I don't think they are offering the hard solutions in lieu of easy solutions that they are hiding. The solution is what the manual (and Wally) are stating. Until you take it completely apart and ultrasonic clean it (find a friend that has one if you can't afford one), you most likely (by a very high percentage) are going to keep returning to the same results. No solvent will dissolve fine metal bits that have managed to get in there.

Super88chris

well I cleaned the valve body and it still runs the same. I wasn’t comfortable taking apart anymore and it was very hard to do without a lift working upside down pretty much. This may be the end of the line for me and this car. Last night when I got done I added new trans fluid with it running, then drove it a bit and checked the fluid again with it running and it was back to the low mark so I added more until it reached the full mark, then I check it today with it warmed up and running and it’s about an inch over the full mark. I felt sludge in the pan but very little metal. That stuff on the pick up screen felt soft and crumbled on my fingers, it didn’t feel like metal

Charlie Jones

I'm sorry, but memory didn't serve me correct.
The throttle lever on the trans should be all the way back when the throttle is closed at curb idle . (warmed up)
Sorry again for the confusion. Try and re-visit that adjustment once again.
You may get lucky, and solve your problem.

Super88chris

can a half of turn off on the throttle adjust throw it off to not work correct?

ub2693v

After my second transmission, two turns from the original setting made all the difference.

Super88chris

I’m sure it does. I think if I have to clean the governor and servo I’ll take out the ones from my old trans and clean them up then just swap them

Charlie Jones

Yes it could.
The procedure is to remove the clevis pin on the trans lever
Make sure the throttle is all the way closed . (off fast idle cam)
Hold the lever back, towards the rear of the car,
Adjust the linkage so the clevis pin fits in freely.

Super88chris

sounds good I’ll double check that process

Super88chris

is it possible the little brass teeth broke off only on the 4th gear and that’s what is causing it to not shift into 4th?

carnutz

This has probably covered before, but does lengthening the trans rod to the carburetor delay the shift pattern or advance it. I get all four gears, but they shift at higher speeds than I would like.
Also, the downshift from 2nd to 1st seems kind of harsh. Any ideas?
thanks

Super88chris

shortening the tv rod on mine delays the shift and extending it makes the shifts better. I’m the wrong person to ask lol. I would just play around with it. The manual tells you what to do in your specific situation. These guys on here have explained a lot of good advice if you read some of the previous posts. I wish I knew more and could help you

Charlie Jones

There are no "little brass teeth" in an automatic trans.
You might be thinking about a synchronizer in a stick shift trans.

A Hydra-Matic works with planetary gearsets
A "sun" gear is typically turned by the engine.
The "planet " gears are mounted in a planet carrier that may be connected to the output shaft.
The planet gears rotate inside a "ring" gear with internal teeth.
In the first photo below you can see the "sun " and "planet " gears in the planet carrier.
The second photo is the ring gear.









There are three sets of planetary gears. A front and rear planetary for forward gears, and a third set with two sets of "planets" for reverse.
When the gearset is in reduction, the band tightens around the ring gear locking it up stationary to the case.
The sun gear causes the planets to "walk" around the inside of the ring gear turning the planet carrier at a reduced rate of speed (with more torque).
When the gearset is in direct drive a multiple disc clutch locks the gearset together and the band is released.
The front and rear gearsets have different reduction ratios, and the application of bands and clutches make for four different reduction ratios.
The operation o the gearsets is shown in the chart below.







Logic will tell you that if you are getting 3 forward gears that the clutches and bands are OK.
The bands and clutches are applied by hydraulic pressure from the pumps through the valve body.
The valve body applies or releases bands or clutches to "shift " the trans into the proper gear.
It uses several parameters to decide which gear to shift into.
The engine speed is determined by the pressure in the front pump.
The road speed is determined by the pressure in the rear pump.
The throttle opening is determined by the "TV" linkage.
If the unit stays in third gear, then some ting in the valve body is not causing it to shift.
The first suspect is improperly adjusted TV linkage.
Or else a problem in the shift valves in the valve body.

Super88chris

well thanks for explaining the process to me that helps a lot. However, if I’m getting the first 3 gears and the valve body is clean and the tv rod is adjusted I checked it today. The other guy on here are saying and even the book says I need to clean the the governors and servo. What do those do in this shift process?

justacog

Did you thoroughly clean the valve body? You prior posts seemed to indicate you did not remove and disassemble, completely, the valve body and clean it and the parts within. If you did not, you shouldn't state that the valve body is clean. This will mislead folks that are trying to help you and waste their time chasing solutions that won't fix the issue. I've attached some files that someone else had posted that show areas of the valve body that need to be cleaned out, including some small ball check valves.

You need to thoroughly clean the valve body. I'm pretty certain the TV rod is not the issue. Both Bands and both Clutches seem to operate normally since you are getting clean shifts from 1 to 3. The only thing preventing your shift from 3 to 4 is VERY LIKELY, the valve body.

Super88chris

yes I cleaned the valve body, and those questions I asked were before I took it out and cleaned it. There was nothing in the valve body accept transmission fluid. I took that whole valve body completely apart and cleaned every single piece. So if it’s only the valve body that’s my issue then why does the book say, if I don’t get 4th gear to clean the valve body and governors and servo? Thank you for those images

Super88chris

forgive my terminology, but there was one section in the valve body where I had to pull out a pin to take it apart, is that the part that controls the 3-4 shift? If I could find out exactly what parts of the transmission meaning valve body, governor and or servo controls the shift from 3-4 then I can understand what and why I need to clean. Either way the whole valve body was cleaned very well and put back together correctly. But I had no idea which of those plungers controls the 3-4 shift. And yes I’ve read the manual but I am confused by the diagrams. If someone could point out exactly which parts control the 3-4 shift on those images then hopefully I will understand

Wally

Chris,
I'm not at home so I can't check out the manual but I'm positive in the Hydra-Matic section it details which valve controls the 3-4 shift. You need to spend time studying the diagrams.
I've rebuilt several automatic transmissions over the years. The one key in all of them is "cleanliness". I have two parts washers, one for initial cleaning and one for final cleaning plus the Ultrasonic cleaner. When it comes time to assemble an automatic transmission, I completely drain, clean, and refill my final cleaning parts washer. I know it sounds like overkill but that's how I roll. And so far, I've never had a problem with any of the transmissions.
Take the time to do it right the first time so you don't have to do it again.
Wally

Super88chris

ok I’ll look again in the manual I just have a hard time with the diagrams. My plan this time is to take take the governor and servo out of my old trans and clean them up good and swap them. I’ve already done the valve body so I’m not going to be taking that apart again.

Charlie Jones

X2
Why is it that there's never enough time to do things right.
But always enough time to do them over?

Super88chris

usually how it goes with me

Super88chris

I know we been over this, and I’ve been trying to understand this manual, which mine says, for no 4th gear, remove and inspect valve body and governors. But the other post that the other guys manual says remove and inspect valve body, governors and servos. So I’m confused on which ones I need to remove and clean. I did read the book and found out what in the valve body controls the shift from 3-4 which is all I need but I cleaned and assembled the valve body already and as I stated before it didn’t even look dirty just had trans fluid in it. If I can get an idea of what to take out and clean I’ll do it. I’m the type to need lots of pictures and this book doesn’t have much. I was looking at my other trans yesterday the one I have outside and I tried removing the rear servo I believe but I stopped because I didn’t want to mess anything up.