Gas gone wild
February 27th, 2012, 05:39 AM
#42
Yeah. I had heard about the refinery fire in Seattle too. They must schedule this fires or mishaps. I think last year they had an issue with the refinery down by Chicago. They also blame the change in formulations from winter gas to summer gas? It's all a bunch of garbage. Canada and th U.S. have so much oil it's nuckin' futz. Gas should not be as high as it is. But, like others have said what is it that we can do except bend over and pay.
I live in Windsor Ontario and work in Detroit so I can buy gas for the cars in Detroit. So, while $3.59 seems high compared to $1.25 per litre it's still a bargain. I have also started buying a lot of groceries in Metro Detroit because the food prices in Canada are going crazy too.
I live in Windsor Ontario and work in Detroit so I can buy gas for the cars in Detroit. So, while $3.59 seems high compared to $1.25 per litre it's still a bargain. I have also started buying a lot of groceries in Metro Detroit because the food prices in Canada are going crazy too.
February 27th, 2012, 06:38 AM
#43
2 '66 98's
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: central New Jersey
Posts: 489
With prices of everything across the board going up, I now have to choose between food, medicine and gasoline. I'm loosing weight and my health is deteriorating but I will continue to drive until I keel over!
Last edited by bigoldscruiser; February 27th, 2012 at 06:41 AM.
February 27th, 2012, 07:58 AM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 669
Yeah. I had heard about the refinery fire in Seattle too. They must schedule this fires or mishaps. I think last year they had an issue with the refinery down by Chicago. They also blame the change in formulations from winter gas to summer gas? It's all a bunch of garbage. Canada and th U.S. have so much oil it's nuckin' futz. Gas should not be as high as it is. But, like others have said what is it that we can do except bend over and pay.
I live in Windsor Ontario and work in Detroit so I can buy gas for the cars in Detroit. So, while $3.59 seems high compared to $1.25 per litre it's still a bargain. I have also started buying a lot of groceries in Metro Detroit because the food prices in Canada are going crazy too.
I live in Windsor Ontario and work in Detroit so I can buy gas for the cars in Detroit. So, while $3.59 seems high compared to $1.25 per litre it's still a bargain. I have also started buying a lot of groceries in Metro Detroit because the food prices in Canada are going crazy too.
According to the talking heads on the business channels, there is little relief in sight. That 3;91 gearset is going to be a pain this year.
Last edited by Bunser; February 27th, 2012 at 07:59 AM. Reason: change ''but'' to buy.
February 27th, 2012, 04:58 PM
#48
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sherwood Park, Alberta
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February 27th, 2012, 05:52 PM
#49
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
We've got you beat.
The first US income tax was instituted to pay for our Civil War, in about 1862 (though it was later suspended for a while).
We were old hands at it by 1913, when it was re-instituted just before World War I.
- Eric
The first US income tax was instituted to pay for our Civil War, in about 1862 (though it was later suspended for a while).
We were old hands at it by 1913, when it was re-instituted just before World War I.
- Eric
February 28th, 2012, 01:34 AM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,202
http://www.californiagasprices.com/
No need to take special pictures of the prices at the pumps.
You can see what the highest and lowest prices are at any time in any state.
Presently the highest price is $5.59 for 87 Octane at one station in Cali.
That's about $1.30 more then the highest in IL , and the fuel price war
on consumers #1 spot has been between Chicago and San Fran for years now.
BTW stop trying to figure it out.......we have only one way to combat this problem.
Start convincing Americans to stop investing into the Oil Markets.
UNTIL that happens, prices will continue to rise to show profits.
Pull out all the $$$ and watch it crash.
No need to take special pictures of the prices at the pumps.
You can see what the highest and lowest prices are at any time in any state.
Presently the highest price is $5.59 for 87 Octane at one station in Cali.
That's about $1.30 more then the highest in IL , and the fuel price war
on consumers #1 spot has been between Chicago and San Fran for years now.
BTW stop trying to figure it out.......we have only one way to combat this problem.
Start convincing Americans to stop investing into the Oil Markets.
UNTIL that happens, prices will continue to rise to show profits.
Pull out all the $$$ and watch it crash.
Last edited by Aceshigh; February 28th, 2012 at 01:39 AM.
February 28th, 2012, 07:50 AM
#51
'87 Delta 88 Royale
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Margate, England
Posts: 2,513
Europeans also don't have the same need for cars that we do - they can get to school, work, shopping, etc. by walking or by reasonably priced public transportation (they still have trains, while we have unused "recreational rail-trails"), while here in the US, most people have to get in a car and drive to go anywhere at all, and are thus held hostage by the gas companies.
- Eric
- Eric
I wish!
Rail travel is more expensive than running a car per mile, a little less if you take in the whole cost of owning and running one, bus service is poor as well unless you are in a big city.
Dallas, Tx has at least as good a bus service as anywhere in the UK.
To go shopping you need to go to out of town supermarkets, if you buy a weeks shopping a bus is impractical. My girlfriend drives a cab and a lot of her work is ferrying people and their shopping to and from such places.
There is no way I could hold down my job without a car to get to work (a 20 mile round trip) and I am far from alone in that respect.
Gas is £1.35 per liter, diesel £1.42, around $10.00 per US gallon at current exchange rates.
Income tax was introduced to pay for the Napoleonic wars (1810 if memory serves), then abolished in 1830, then reintroduced to pay for the Crimean campaign, it has been a fixture ever since.
Roger.
Last edited by rustyroger; February 28th, 2012 at 07:53 AM.
February 28th, 2012, 08:21 AM
#52
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Ah, Roger, we've miscommunicated ("Two great nations divided by a common language" and all that).
I was using the word European in it's proper sense, not in the modern, sloppy sense. I meant the Continent, not the British Isles.
BritRail is far more comparable to our Amtrak, in both price and service, than to the European lines, such as the Deutsche Bahn or Ferroviaria dello Stato.
I agree, you folks have had more than your share of poorly planned suburban sprawl, distant shopping centres, etc.
Things flowed a bit better than that the last time I was over in Europe, though. I trust they haven't changed all that much.
- Eric
I was using the word European in it's proper sense, not in the modern, sloppy sense. I meant the Continent, not the British Isles.
BritRail is far more comparable to our Amtrak, in both price and service, than to the European lines, such as the Deutsche Bahn or Ferroviaria dello Stato.
I agree, you folks have had more than your share of poorly planned suburban sprawl, distant shopping centres, etc.
Things flowed a bit better than that the last time I was over in Europe, though. I trust they haven't changed all that much.
- Eric
February 28th, 2012, 12:22 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wichita, Ks
Posts: 1,070
Drilling is down, the American dollar is worth less, Iran's mess decreasing supply, world wide demand is up... All this helps to raise the costs of gas. It will get worse this summer. Hopefully things get better in the fall.
March 24th, 2012, 03:56 AM
#55
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 528
March 24th, 2012, 05:49 AM
#56
Oldsdruid
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southside Vajenya
Posts: 10,338
It's making absolutely no sense here lately.
As of last night: 87 regular ranges from $3.58 to $3.75. Mid-grade from 10-20 cents higher. 93 is all over $4.00 with Exxon at $4.09.
There are 9 Valero stations here. No two of them have the same pricing, though one on the east side of town is the lowest of all at $3.58. Trouble is that station's pay-at-the-pump doesn't work. I put all my gas on one credit card and I fill up when I buy gas, so I really have no idea how much it will take to fill the tank, and I refuse to leave that credit card in the hands of a convenience store clerk while I fill up. I have the idea their plan is to get you inside the store so you'll buy some overpriced drinks or snacks, but I ain't bitin'.
Exxon predictably the most expensive at $3.75. What's weird is one of the off-brand stations is matching them across the board.
The station I used to buy all my fuel at is now 10-12 cents per gallon higher than others, so even though I have done business with the guy for many years, I go a mile down the road and buy my gas at a Hess. Yes, I know it's not his fault.
The trouble is, the people who are causing this mayhem are not accountable and simply do not care what they're doing to the economy at large. They have plenty of money thanks to the screwing they're putting to the average citizen.
Kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out.
As of last night: 87 regular ranges from $3.58 to $3.75. Mid-grade from 10-20 cents higher. 93 is all over $4.00 with Exxon at $4.09.
There are 9 Valero stations here. No two of them have the same pricing, though one on the east side of town is the lowest of all at $3.58. Trouble is that station's pay-at-the-pump doesn't work. I put all my gas on one credit card and I fill up when I buy gas, so I really have no idea how much it will take to fill the tank, and I refuse to leave that credit card in the hands of a convenience store clerk while I fill up. I have the idea their plan is to get you inside the store so you'll buy some overpriced drinks or snacks, but I ain't bitin'.
Exxon predictably the most expensive at $3.75. What's weird is one of the off-brand stations is matching them across the board.
The station I used to buy all my fuel at is now 10-12 cents per gallon higher than others, so even though I have done business with the guy for many years, I go a mile down the road and buy my gas at a Hess. Yes, I know it's not his fault.
The trouble is, the people who are causing this mayhem are not accountable and simply do not care what they're doing to the economy at large. They have plenty of money thanks to the screwing they're putting to the average citizen.
Kill 'em all. Let God sort 'em out.
March 24th, 2012, 06:53 AM
#57
Registered Thread Killer
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 192
Yeah, too many making horendous amounts of money to back out now.
And accountability...What is that? I think my Dad mentioned something about it when I was a kid, as well as empathy.
And accountability...What is that? I think my Dad mentioned something about it when I was a kid, as well as empathy.
Last edited by mfgusa; December 22nd, 2013 at 05:57 AM.
March 24th, 2012, 04:46 PM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Gas everywhere in California San Francisco Bay Area is over $4 a gallon. That's with refineries in our own backyard. 9th most expensive area in the world.(for everything) Fortunately I can ride my bicycle to work now that the weather is going into summer. Chumley
March 24th, 2012, 05:25 PM
#60
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Well it looks like Canada has the US beat on 2 things; high gas prices and cell phone rates.
BTW, how did you come up with 9th most expensive place to live in the world? I googled that and the only US city that got mentioned was New York. Toronto and Montreal were the only Canadian Cities that got mentioned which surprises me because Vancouver is right up there too.
April 6th, 2012, 08:11 PM
#62
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
Europeans also don't have the same need for cars that we do - they can get to school, work, shopping, etc. by walking or by reasonably priced public transportation (they still have trains, while we have unused "recreational rail-trails"), while here in the US, most people have to get in a car and drive to go anywhere at all, and are thus held hostage by the gas companies.
We could debate whether the high taxes Europeans pay are worth it to them (which is a reasonable debate), but those taxes very definitely do pay for things that we don't have in the US (and this, I would point out, in spite of the fact that our taxes here in the US are not low!). Also, their taxes can go more toward public services than ours can because they have much lower defense expenditures, because our very large military has been protecting them from the Bear for the past 60 years, free of charge.
- Eric
We could debate whether the high taxes Europeans pay are worth it to them (which is a reasonable debate), but those taxes very definitely do pay for things that we don't have in the US (and this, I would point out, in spite of the fact that our taxes here in the US are not low!). Also, their taxes can go more toward public services than ours can because they have much lower defense expenditures, because our very large military has been protecting them from the Bear for the past 60 years, free of charge.
- Eric
April 6th, 2012, 08:16 PM
#63
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
2 days ago, it went up 8 cents a litre. That's the equivalent of 30 cents a gallon. Across Canada the prices are about $5.29/US gallon. Our Canadian gallon (4.5 litres = 1 gallon) costs 6.35. I'm thinking that's going to kill a lot of US tourism to Canada this year.
There's a lot of consumer outrage and deservedly so. I know it costs money to drill, refine and distribute. But big oil is also showing record profits. And while they're at it, explain to me how a developing markets like Mexico, Pakistan and Nigeria can sell gas for around 80 friggin cents / litre. Saudi Arabia? only pays 12 cents a litre - Ya baby that's a whopping 45 cents/US gallon! Reality says and proves the market isn't fair. Sux to be us doesn't it?
FWIW, I don't believe OPEC prices should be set by the Saudi's. If you got oil? You should be able to start a competition for gas and make even bigger profits. Hell we have blotto oil here in Canada. We drill it, frac it, pump it, refine it, distribute it --- and we still pay world prices even though it's in our back yard. We get NO SAY in the market. Break out the guns, let's get the politicians and the oil barons at the same time!
There's a lot of consumer outrage and deservedly so. I know it costs money to drill, refine and distribute. But big oil is also showing record profits. And while they're at it, explain to me how a developing markets like Mexico, Pakistan and Nigeria can sell gas for around 80 friggin cents / litre. Saudi Arabia? only pays 12 cents a litre - Ya baby that's a whopping 45 cents/US gallon! Reality says and proves the market isn't fair. Sux to be us doesn't it?
FWIW, I don't believe OPEC prices should be set by the Saudi's. If you got oil? You should be able to start a competition for gas and make even bigger profits. Hell we have blotto oil here in Canada. We drill it, frac it, pump it, refine it, distribute it --- and we still pay world prices even though it's in our back yard. We get NO SAY in the market. Break out the guns, let's get the politicians and the oil barons at the same time!
April 6th, 2012, 09:05 PM
#64
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
2 days ago, it went up 8 cents a litre. That's the equivalent of 30 cents a gallon. Across Canada the prices are about $5.29/US gallon. Our Canadian gallon (4.5 litres = 1 gallon) costs 6.35. I'm thinking that's going to kill a lot of US tourism to Canada this year.
There's a lot of consumer outrage and deservedly so. I know it costs money to drill, refine and distribute. But big oil is also showing record profits. And while they're at it, explain to me how a developing markets like Mexico, Pakistan and Nigeria can sell gas for around 80 friggin cents / litre. Saudi Arabia? only pays 12 cents a litre - Ya baby that's a whopping 45 cents/US gallon! Reality says and proves the market isn't fair. Sux to be us doesn't it?
FWIW, I don't believe OPEC prices should be set by the Saudi's. If you got oil? You should be able to start a competition for gas and make even bigger profits. Hell we have blotto oil here in Canada. We drill it, frac it, pump it, refine it, distribute it --- and we still pay world prices even though it's in our back yard. We get NO SAY in the market. Break out the guns, let's get the politicians and the oil barons at the same time!
There's a lot of consumer outrage and deservedly so. I know it costs money to drill, refine and distribute. But big oil is also showing record profits. And while they're at it, explain to me how a developing markets like Mexico, Pakistan and Nigeria can sell gas for around 80 friggin cents / litre. Saudi Arabia? only pays 12 cents a litre - Ya baby that's a whopping 45 cents/US gallon! Reality says and proves the market isn't fair. Sux to be us doesn't it?
FWIW, I don't believe OPEC prices should be set by the Saudi's. If you got oil? You should be able to start a competition for gas and make even bigger profits. Hell we have blotto oil here in Canada. We drill it, frac it, pump it, refine it, distribute it --- and we still pay world prices even though it's in our back yard. We get NO SAY in the market. Break out the guns, let's get the politicians and the oil barons at the same time!
April 6th, 2012, 10:41 PM
#65
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Now if it was a group of gorgeous blondes, brunettes and redheads? I'm all in!
Post office?? Naw. That's the one place where you can get legally robbed or screwed and nothing you can do about it. I like to avoid it when I can.
April 7th, 2012, 05:35 AM
#66
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Same thing here.
Filled up late last week for about $3.95 for 93 octane (not cheap), then a couple of days ago filled up and it was $4.25!
I don't understand how wrecking the economy is going to benefit the rich oil company types in the long run. You'd think it would be in their best interests to keep prices reasonable, so people can live, work, and afford to buy more gas.
- Eric
Filled up late last week for about $3.95 for 93 octane (not cheap), then a couple of days ago filled up and it was $4.25!
I don't understand how wrecking the economy is going to benefit the rich oil company types in the long run. You'd think it would be in their best interests to keep prices reasonable, so people can live, work, and afford to buy more gas.
- Eric
April 7th, 2012, 06:02 AM
#68
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
As time went on, Lenin and the Bolsheviks out maneuvered and out gunned all the other factions, including the White Russians, whom we sent US forces to assist.
Looks like the super-rich ended up winning out there in the end, too, though.
- Eric
April 7th, 2012, 06:15 AM
#69
Always room for one more
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 7,773
Eric the oil companies will keep getting richer because they know we need to work and live. We will still buy gas but it's everything else we'll quit buying.
I fully expect gas to come way down towards the end of the summer so Obama can say oh look what I've done, thinking people will have forgotten what a disaster he's been the first 3 1/2 years and vote him back in. Lord I hope not but that's what I think is going to happen.
Mike
I fully expect gas to come way down towards the end of the summer so Obama can say oh look what I've done, thinking people will have forgotten what a disaster he's been the first 3 1/2 years and vote him back in. Lord I hope not but that's what I think is going to happen.
Mike
April 7th, 2012, 06:19 AM
#70
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 528
Same thing here.
Filled up late last week for about $3.95 for 93 octane (not cheap), then a couple of days ago filled up and it was $4.25!
I don't understand how wrecking the economy is going to benefit the rich oil company types in the long run. You'd think it would be in their best interests to keep prices reasonable, so people can live, work, and afford to buy more gas.
- Eric
Filled up late last week for about $3.95 for 93 octane (not cheap), then a couple of days ago filled up and it was $4.25!
I don't understand how wrecking the economy is going to benefit the rich oil company types in the long run. You'd think it would be in their best interests to keep prices reasonable, so people can live, work, and afford to buy more gas.
- Eric
April 7th, 2012, 07:20 AM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Posts: 492
according to the IRS, big oil companies pay combined taxes of around 80 million per day. if you think the politicians are going to come to the rescue of the people and risk losing any of that money you are sadly mistaken. then there is the myth of oil subsidies. another political double speak. oil companies get no subsidies, they do however get to take advantage of the same tax breaks any other big company gets to. because the tax code is now so complicated any time oil co. claim a deduction the left calls it a subsidy. the bottom line is D.C. makes too much money from oil to really want to change any thing other than the publics perception that they are doing nothing. there are plenty of ways to fix the problems of fuel costs and everything else the government sticks its fingers into but old crony politicians are not going to rock the golden boat they are riding in.
April 9th, 2012, 02:40 AM
#75
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,202
Originally Posted by MDchanic
Europeans also don't have the same need for cars that we do - they can get to school, work, shopping, etc. by walking or by reasonably priced public transportation (they still have trains, while we have unused "recreational rail-trails"), while here in the US, most people have to get in a car and drive to go anywhere at all, and are thus held hostage by the gas companies.
Europeans also don't have the same need for cars that we do - they can get to school, work, shopping, etc. by walking or by reasonably priced public transportation (they still have trains, while we have unused "recreational rail-trails"), while here in the US, most people have to get in a car and drive to go anywhere at all, and are thus held hostage by the gas companies.
You don't think major metropolitan areas of the United States have (corporate welfare) bus lines running up and down their city and suburbian streets 18 hours a day, with trains and subways galore ?? Come on......give me a break. I'm 40 minutes from downtown Chicago and even I have buses coming out into my suburb area with a bus hub not far from me that I can hop all the way into the downtown area with. Even if I miss a bus, there's trains out by me , and all over as well.
While the US rural areas don't have these options, neither do European rural areas. But all major cities here and in Europe have a multitude of public transportation OPTIONS. Key word is OPTIONS.....because the United States revolves a different kind of mentality. It's called ..... ME ME ME self indulgence. We love our cheaper fuel (via comparison) so that we can drive ourselves anywhere and everywhere at our own leisure.
Europeans just have higher fuel prices so it makes far more sense to use public transportation.
After world war II and the expansion of the roadway systems, and expressways began......it just happened.
Lets not try to pretend our society doesn't have the same options.....we're just addicted to our vehicles.
We have the power to change our fuel consumption, but we as a nation still consume ridiculously.
Here we have a classic car forum where alot of guys are getting 8 mpg average complaining about fuel costs.
IRONY ?? I think not.
Last edited by Aceshigh; April 9th, 2012 at 02:47 AM.
April 9th, 2012, 03:01 AM
#76
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
I can't argue with the theme of your post, Aces, but I will say that having lived in Europe, their options are different.
Where I live now, in a seaside area that has been settled for 400 years, there is no, count 'em: NO, public transportation of any kind. This is in a popular area thronged with tourists six months out of the year.
Fifty years ago, a major rail line came right into the middle of town, and from about 125 years ago to about 75 years ago, an electric "interurban" line connected our small town, and many others, to the cities to the north and south of us at speeds faster than you could drive there now.
I agree that it's all about options, but, in the event that we do not feel like pouring gas down the storm sewer (kids, don't try this at home !) we do not have the options that some folks in other parts of the world have.
Where I live now, in a seaside area that has been settled for 400 years, there is no, count 'em: NO, public transportation of any kind. This is in a popular area thronged with tourists six months out of the year.
Fifty years ago, a major rail line came right into the middle of town, and from about 125 years ago to about 75 years ago, an electric "interurban" line connected our small town, and many others, to the cities to the north and south of us at speeds faster than you could drive there now.
I agree that it's all about options, but, in the event that we do not feel like pouring gas down the storm sewer (kids, don't try this at home
!) we do not have the options that some folks in other parts of the world have.
April 9th, 2012, 07:02 AM
#78
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
Energy Prices
Three factors drive the price of oil and gasoline -
1. Supply - Drilling on federal lands is at record lows. And we have Iran threatening to disrupt shipping in the MidEast.
2. Demand - While gasoline consumption is down in the US, Asian and emerging markets continue to see increased demand. China is the largest car market now.
3. Currency - Oil is priced in dollars. The Federal Reserve is seeing to it that our currency stays low which means the price of oil goes up. Every time Bernanke eases monetary policy to boost the stock market, prices of everything go up.
Now add to this, the Keystone pipeline fiasco. Since we managed to antagonize our largest trading and energy partner over this deal, Canada has now decided not to continue the discount at which we were buying oil & gas. We had been importing on discounted terms.
1. Supply - Drilling on federal lands is at record lows. And we have Iran threatening to disrupt shipping in the MidEast.
2. Demand - While gasoline consumption is down in the US, Asian and emerging markets continue to see increased demand. China is the largest car market now.
3. Currency - Oil is priced in dollars. The Federal Reserve is seeing to it that our currency stays low which means the price of oil goes up. Every time Bernanke eases monetary policy to boost the stock market, prices of everything go up.
Now add to this, the Keystone pipeline fiasco. Since we managed to antagonize our largest trading and energy partner over this deal, Canada has now decided not to continue the discount at which we were buying oil & gas. We had been importing on discounted terms.
April 9th, 2012, 08:26 AM
#79
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wichita, Ks
Posts: 1,070
Thanks pacecar. Seemed like people had been mislead with their information. Big oil might be making record profits but those percentages are very low compared to any other company. That supply and demand is what's hurting us. To add to the Canadian pipeline. Warren Buffet owns the railroad that transports that oil to America. It's way more expensive than a pipeline. Think he had a hand in not getting the pipeline built?
