62radarlove

I've always wondered what the difference is between a clone & a Tribute. Is it the name of tribute that sounds better or is there a Real difference. I wonder this because i'm stuck in a corner with a real 442 that is seriously rusted wondering if its worth it to replace the roof, sail panels, drivers & back passengers floor pan , trunk lid, rear body filler panel. Ive got a line on a cutlass "S" same year thats been gone through with good solid metal throughout, with cleaned up framework, all glass, engine, trans, rrearend, & misc items, & contemplating on making a Tribute 442? I like the originality of what a 442 signifies but at the end of the day is it so wrong to clone a 442? or keep the Cutlass "S" as is & go with it. All i know that the deeper i got into my existing 442 the worst was coming out......rust.....& cancer......sigh....Thoughts & opinions are greatly appreciated for all that have a say. Thanks!

aliensatemybuick

Clone, tribute, a rose by any other name...if hanging 442 parts on a solid car will be easier and result in a better end product, I say go for it. A well done clone can be a thing of beauty. A poorly done one can be laughable. But then, someone will always have something to criticize, so do what makes you happy and to hell with what anyone else thinks. Heck, even if you have a genuine car, there will be those who will think it isn't, or that its not up to their own standards of perfection and holyness, and even offer their unsolicited opinion on the matter. So for God's sake, don't even try to please others.

DeltaPace77

A clone, is usually a lesser factory car, thats built being identicle to say an original 442, from a base Cutlass. A Tribute car is usually a highly modified version of the original. Could have a different suspension, driveline, lowered, larger wheels, ext.

1969w3155

From what I've seen they are the same.

redoldsman

It has seemed to me they use the term Tribute car in higher end cars like COPO Camaros. Tribute was probably a term dreamed up by Barrett Jackson that has a lot better ring to it than clone. Just my 2 pennie worth.

Highwayman

So you have a 442 with serious rust damage. Normally folks will find a donor car and transfer parts from one car to the other. You find another Cutlass and determine the most cost effective way to rebuild your 442 is to lift the badges and drive the Cutlass under them. Isn't that just a major repair done in the most efficient way at your disposal?

Intragration

If the 442 is too far gone for you, why not sell it to someone who will fix it up, buy the S and build an S? A 442 is cool, an S is cool. Be proud of what you've got.

droptopron

I've never heard that before.
I think the terms are interchangeable but if anything a tribute goes out of its way to be more correct where a clone may only have emblems and maybe stripes but might have aftermarket wheels & chrome bits under the hood.

Ancient Iron

What year are the cars? 1968 thru 71 442 had their own vin 1964-67 and 72 up they are still Cutlass's. Better to build a clone or tribute than to see a car lost to scrap. I have a 63 F-85 conv. that came from a junkyard to replace the first one I owned,Which was so ROTTED OUT It was probably unsafe. Will it be a matching numbers car ?? no But at least one of the two will live on

Jamesbo

No

DeltaPace77

Don't know if you watch any of the weekend Powerblock TV shows, but they're doing a Cutlass right now, with nothing on it at all, that's close to stock. They're calling it a 442 tribute car, and maybe check the shows out this weekend.

jaunty75

"Clone" = hiding the fact that it's not the real thing.

"Tribute" = admitting up front that it's not the real thing.

Lady72nRob71

Tribute is just 'fancier' (?) name than clone. Lady was sold as a clone by the previous owner so i just kept it that way.

frankr442

A lot of people don't agree with me, but I see nothing wrong with using a donor car to replace the body and frame of a severely rusted or damaged car. You can replace a frame, floors, trunk panels even cowls where the vin plate mounts. Is there some percentage of original metal or some specific part necessary to qualify as "the" car? Swapping the VIN tags to a new body does not create an additional 442 to the total production count. I think this is what the OP is really getting at. I say it's still one of however many 442's were made that year. A clone/tribute is a car dressed up to look like a different/more desirable model, and as long as you don't misrepresent it as such at time of sale, it's all good. I say do what you have to do to save your "real" 442. It will still be real.

starfire

Ding, ding, ding!!!!!

starfire

Word.

RAMBOW

If you PREFER the look of the "upmodel" be it 442, SS, RT, Z/28, AAR, "Fill in the blank cool performance or looks package" then do it, and to hell with anyone that says otherwise- just be honest about it when it comes time to sell.

At the end of the day... you have to enjoy the car. You're not building it for anyone else- and its a waste to restore the car to someone elses tast. Originality is only cool if you LIKE how it was originally!

Originality really turns some peoples cranks. They don't care what it was, they just want to see it exactly as it was... stickers, inspection marks, everything- they get off on the tiniest details making it perfect. And that cool... But its not for me.

I think of those guys as building model railroads... They spend all their time making the little trees & town... Me, i just want to slap the tracks and and run the train

I look at my classic cars this way... If i hopped into a timemachine and could walk onto a car lot in 1969, which car would i be looking at to bring home with me- the plain jane 6 cylinder model , or a 442?

Its now 45+ years later & you can't walk onto the car lot and pick out the exact model, color, options you want (without a very long & likely expensive search)- Unless you are restoring a car. Then you can make it how YOU want.

There is a certain freedom when you are working on a car that ISN'T something special or rare- it eliminates that fear of devaluing something with your changes.

If your 442 is too far gone for your experience or budget then go get the solid cutlass and make it into what you want. Just be super darn sure that it really is solid and not just hiding stuff! Otherwise you just wind up with a different box of worms.... (if its near by i'd be happy to go with, if you need an extra set of eyes)

Just my thoughts...

I do gotta come by one of these days and check out your 69. I actually drove mine to work today in Kirkland... Woot!

Rickman48

Cut the cowl and switching the body would be a cure - if you're up for the work!
Would solve all the problems, save you money on parts and labor, and would keep all your alignment specs. vs replacing individual pieces, one at a time!
Then it wouldn't be a 'clone' or a 'tribute'!
Providing they have the same roofline.

oldcutlass

Clone is a car that would be built to look like the original in most regards. Imho, tribute is someones rendition of a particular car. This is where alot of the pro-touring cars fall into.

And then there's mine, a nice old car that goes fast!

VikingBlue

Frank...just making up #s to make a point so let's say there were 1000 factory 442s built in a certain year and all are still on the road.

Then one of them gets destroyed in an accident and the owner takes the VIN tag off of it and builds a completely new vehicle with completely new parts (442 motor, 442 emblems, new or NOS sheet metal, etc.)

You'd say this brand new car with the only factory item being the original VIN tag is still one of the original 1000 ?

Eddie Hansen

This has been discussed many times here in the past... we will eventually get into rebodying? for example the dyncorn bodies and the endless amount of vin/ trim Tags that are with ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-EL-CAMI...item1c2522877a
I suspect once you have bought the cowl tag he will ask if your interested in the vin/title


which to me is out and out fraud... but it does happen, in your case you are looking for a donor body and frame much like a member here who bought a 68 442, then after blasting was left with swiss cheese.... In my humble opinion, if you have something that is numbers matching I think there is no harm or foul to replace as much of the car to get it going again and still be able to call it a 442. I would check very carefully with your dmv to see what is allowed or what isn't and I believe it comes down to the rivets of the vin but I do not know for sure.

to me a clone is an exact copy, like taking a cutlass s and changing everything to make it a 442, including stamps, labels etc a tribute is like making one of the sox and martin cars, adding a motion paint job etc but I agree the terms could be pretty much interchangeable.

I don't know what it is, but if you had to change only the frame guys have no problem, the quarters, fenders, doors glass roof no problem... floors trunks, bumpers, cowl support, even most of the firewall no problem... but to actually do it all at once Big Problem LOL..... just my few penny's more... good luck with your project

66-3X2 442

DING DING DING We have a winner and as some say,it will be debated till hell freezes over. If re-bodying a car is so wrong,why did Olds offer a complete body in white (body shell) for the purpose of rebuilding a car that needed it? Flame on.

VikingBlue

66...because they did not concern themselves with collector car issues & fraud.

Just because sports teams donate unbought tickets to local charities doesn't mean they support secondary ticket market activities (StubHub, scalping, counterfeiting, etc.).

IF a car is 99% replacement parts it's not the real thing anymore. It's a copy.

Rickman48

In the body shop lingo, "clipping" a car is what I'm talking about.
Heck, if you're gonna replace it all with individual parts anyway, what's wrong with doing it all at once?
Cut he windshield posts, and the floor where it's solid, fit and weld as necessary!
Not much in wiring, nothing in mechanical, [optional] and all in all, a better job, IMO!
Clone or tribute is NOT a factor, as it's a accepted repair!!
Even to the insurance industry!!

frankr442

VikingBlue, I do see your point. Of course it's not completly original, and should be disclosed as such if for sale. Not many cars are "survivors" (totally original). Lets say you're restoring one of the 1000. I often see fenders, quarters, floors, trunk pans and more replaced. At what point is the car no longer "the car"?

66-3X2 442

You missed my point,when you have an original car that's beyond repair,nothing wrong with a re-body. If you make something out of nothing,that's a clone,recreation or whatever.

VikingBlue

66...oh.

by suggesting so many will disagree I believed you meant that you would consider a rebody and total replacement as the real thing.

I don't think people object to rebodying a car that can't be saved. They object to calling it the real thing.

If a 1 of 1000 surviving real cars gets destroyed and the VIN is saved, I say there's only 999 left.

frankr442

Reminds me of a joke I once heard - "Of the 20,000 GTO's made, 25,000 are still on the road"

mfgusa

Now days its easier to build a 442 clone or tribute due to the Aftermkt Parts Industry targeting the 442.

Try findin "S" grills or trim. Not nearly as easy. And modifing it does't seem to bug the purists.

I'd part the 442 but I'm probably missing the point here.

Jamesbo

And 30,000 of them are tri power

VikingBlue

Frank...to answer your question...the way I look at it is....if there are 999 others of the 1000 out there, plus the crushed original one in a junkyard missing it's VIN tag, and the brand new one with the re-used VIN tag....that makes 1001. Which one is bogus ? The new one with the re-used VIN.

frankr442

Strictly speaking you are correct. But if you carry it to the extreme then no sheet metal replacement is acceptable. I guess I'm not the purist that I thought I was. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

66-3X2 442

That's exactly what I meant. I'll say this one time, IMHO and the opinion of some advisers of the OCA,a re-body is acceptable. Whether you,I or anybody agrees or disagrees,it's up to the individual to make up his or her mind about a re-body. I think it's totally wrong to part a rare car because it's toast. If it can be saved by a re-body,that's what needs to be done. I'll give you a very good example of a re-body being acceptable. A 69 ZL 1 Camaro re-body took the hammer @ over $400K @ the most recent B-J Scottsdale auction. You can say that anybody who buys a B-J car is a DA,I can assure you there are some very knowledgeable buyers there. This is all I have to say about this subject,after 999 times over the years,it gets tiresome.

62radarlove

Great read & opinions all. I did pick up the Cutlass S & will be delivered tomorrow where i can dissect it further. To me there is no right answer to my delima only a preference as to what it is "I" want. The Cutlass is mostly there with good floors, trunk lid, but the roof.....well....someone had professionally installed an electric sunroof that's is actually a great job. Wow, where does that fit into my realm of decisions?....it doesn't. So knowing this i still purchased it. Now i love sunroofs but dont use them much, kinda like that one tools that only gets used once every 2 years....better to have one then to want one, well i have mixed feelings about that on my Muscle car.....it just doesn't fit, but i might warm up to it. Trading vin tags......ehhh, not really able due to mine is a sports coupe & the cutlass is a holiday coupe so i'm out there. My business here in my world is construction customizing, installations, which is pretty much what ever clients want i get er done. So at the mercy of not wanting to kill a car, i'm am gonna do what it takes to keep my 442 alive. Will i see it as a REAL 442, hell yes, even better it gives a good read & story. It might take awhile but i'm one of those guys that can pick up a tool & with a small learning curve do what it takes to define a solid quality finish. I dig all the responses as i thought i would, & appreciate the overall view of many definitions of what a Clone & Tribute are. For me it WILL be the REAL deal. Thanks & will start a project thread soon, again thanks all!!

Oh bty i will be parting out the remaings of the 69 cutlass if any are in need of parts.