Bernhard

Looking forward to seeing how the new heads perform after porting by BTR.

OLDSter Ralph

Perhaps you can send us pics after they have been ported ? This looks like only matching the ports.

Bernhard

This is an in process picture, I do not know if Bill will be posting any fully ported pictures. We should be able to see how the new heads perform after the engine that they go on hits the dyno.
The reason I posted the picture was because people had questions about the performance capability of the newly designed Edelbrock head. We should find out soon how well they work after being in Bills capable hands.

66-3X2 442

When Bill shows the gains I guarantee you they will be disputed. Just wait and see.

Bernhard

Post from BTR Facebook


Done. 8 pulls. Dyno carb used. I just don't know when we will be getting the Holley Terminator stuff so we wanted to finish and ship while the weather is good. All in all, I'm happy with the new design Edelbrock heads. Normally these 468 engines make about 510 to 520 with 10.7:1 and a bigger cam. This has 10.35 with a small duration camshaft for better driveability with a stick. Too big of a cam makes it an assache to drive allthough it makes more power.

VORTECPRO

Is this data after Bill runs them through a CNC program? Cam specs?

cutlassefi

No, as much as I know and was stated, this is an apples to apples test when it comes to the cyl heads only. He does a valve job, some clean up and changes springs I believe, but the same on both nonetheless.
And earlier in the post he mentioned he didn’t like some of the changes that were made. Now he does, go figure.
Finally, good luck getting cam specs from him. He hardly ever shares those.

fleming442

So, the take away here is that the new heads are good for 15-30hp over the old ones? Of course, that's with ice water running through the engine, too. 🤡

cutlassefi

They saw 12-17 as stated previously. But that was on a pretty mild build. Different cams, intakes etc will obviously effect that amount.

fleming442

....and 0.35 of compression. Granny Smith versus Red Delicious apples.

New2oldsw30

Don't strain your back as that is reaching a bit. Maybe 4Hp roughly as each application/combo varies. We have seen 1.1 point only gain 6Hp as the combo was better optimised with less compression.

fleming442

Maybe you could answer my question, then. How much better, in horsepowers, are the new heads over the old?

New2oldsw30

Sorry, NO I can not. I know what I know and Olds are new to me. But those who do have posted what they know or felt since they have used both. EVERYTHING I have has modified heads, even my daily driver 2010 Ram 5.7 Hemi. I would never use a head that hasn't had some work do to it.

Bernhard

[QUOTE=cutlassefi
And earlier in the post he mentioned he didn’t like some of the changes that were made. Now he does, go figure.

That comment was made prior to dyno results, but you already knew that.

Bernhard

I agree you can never assume gains when it comes to hp/tq.
I found it interesting when guys would lower their ET by not running as much gear, switching to smaller cam or reducing header tube size etc.

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=Bernhard;1462740][QUOTE=cutlassefi
That comment was made prior to dyno results, but you already knew that.[/QUOTE]
Correct. But you would hope that he could’ve just not said anything until he had Dyno results. Oh well.

fleming442

Here's a question: were the valve cover rails raised? Ben and I were discussing this as we're both running stock valve covers with spacers just to get good baffling. All the aftermarket baffles suck.

cutlassefi

No, all external dimensions stayed the same, except for the scallop of course.
As mentioned though, additional material was added between the rocker stud bosses and vc rails so raising the intake entry can be done if desired.

fleming442

thanks

Tugla

guess its back to stacking gaskets eh? Lol

cutlassefi

Guys, you have to remember these are mostly going on stock or mild street/strip applications. I don’t know if any of you have done it, but you can actually modify the stock tin valve covers to work on these heads in most cases. That needs that to be the case so people don’t get deterred from using them on something less than an all out race application. It is what it is.

Tugla

can't wait to get a set of these and have them worked over for my street car...id rather run a stock sleeper looking valve covers , ive been running stacked gaskets for 25yrs no issues, doesn't bother me one bit.
that was just a little joke i was saying to Fleming

cutlassefi

Gotcha, thanks.
Bottom line is, this is a better head than the one it replaced in a bunch of ways, while still retaining stock locations. Win-win.

66-3X2 442

I have used stock covers with Harland Sharp rockers using shorter poly locks without modifying the cover/baffles.

fleming442

I have heard that... got a part number?
If you say so. I'm not sold yet. I guess, once the old ones dry up, there won't be a choice.
Yeah, I'm still looking for a reason to buy some. 🤪

66-3X2 442

I do not have a part #,got them used from my engine guys and I believe they are Chevy.

Tederra

Correct he told me he dont like giving cam specs because you'll just go buy the cam with those specs which makes sense I guess.

Bernhard

Bernhard wrote:
Makes total sense why would a professional engine builder give away his cam specifications. You want a BTR cam buy one same goes for any engine builder not just BTR.

Tederra

Like I said I guess, everything is a learned behavior isn't it? So a guy asking just may be wanting to build his own cam manufacturers give out specs rather you buy from them or not. And some professional engine builders give advice also reason I said I guess. It only really has to make sense to him, but if I'm asking because I want to learn to build my own engine then there's multiple ways to get information.

fleming442

You can do 30 years of your own research and development. Or, I hear YouTube and Facebook are full of great information, too! 🤡

Tederra

yes David Vizard has plenty of videos giving Intel on how to select cam specs. Sometimes people ask questions for confirmation not from just mere ignorance. So if any man think I'm going to spend thousands with them for information that's clearly plentiful from other professional engine builders that's actually not trying to make EVERY DIME. As I said "I guess" if it makes sense to you that's all that counts but it's mighty strange our community is as limited as it is maybe it's because some are actually that petty. But to each his own I do respect what I may disagree with

CANADIANOLDS

you would be better off calling a cam company’s tech like than believing anything Vizurd says.

I competed against him in the RACE engine challenge with an Olds and smoked his Chevy butt. He even borrowed our carb because his numbers were dismal,, it helped to keep him out of last place,,,finished 2nd to last. With a small block chev that was supposed to be something real special.

in that years competition all competitors were supposed to receive a free Vizurd cam selection software program that he touted as the ultimate cam selection software ever developed.

I never recieved it, after asking multiple times. As far as I know, nobody else got one either.

Bullet cams has some fairly good tech advisors that can help you out

Tederra

I highly appreciate it and I don't doubt anything you're sharing. I was just really saying basic information on how to understand cam specs. One thing I've heard him say that's was repeated from crower was that it's best to see what information your heads reveal and pick cam specs off what information the flow data reveal. Say like your flow nunbers drop off at .600 lift picking a cam with .650 lift wouldn't be beneficial because the head isn't flowing past .600 my point was I'm not going to send a engine to a guy spend thousands with him when I'm trying to learn just to get help on cam specs I think that's a bit hideous as well as pretty petty just my outlook on the matter.

VORTECPRO

I agree Dale, David Vizard has never done anything in racing.

CANADIANOLDS

I’ve had the unpleasant opportunity to sit through some of his seminars at these competitions. I would rather have a root canal than go through that again. The guy is a fraud and a shyster. He has no shop, no equipment..he borrows equipment and shop space from others to do his work and videos.

he’s a well known grifter in the Charlotte area. He calls himself an ex aerospace engineer and talks of all these racing championships he won in Great Britain. Funny thing is, you won’t find any proof of that. I’ve been told by more than a few people who’ve known him for years that he’s a straight up bs’r

for years he talked of entering the Engine masters ,, but never did. Hinting that it wouldn’t be fair to the other competitors. Well he finally did enter the RACE engine challenge..I seen him in action …what a dumb ***. He’s a great talker though.

they even gave him and his team twice the allotted time on the Dyno to try and sort their dog of and engine out. They finally asked around if anyone had a carb they could borrow,,so ya, pulled off the carb from our engine. A real trick Dale cubic piece and brought it into the cell for him to use. It did help a bit , but he ended up at the bottom of the standings.

cutlassefi

I ATTEMPTED to sit thru one of his sessions at the last PRI. It was on valve sizes vs flow vs the size of your Christmas tree vs your Tgiving turkey, or something like that. He was talking in circles so I left before too long. He’s a blowhard.

Tederra

lol I agree to listen to him is a bit annoying but the way I process information is different than most. I appreciate being misinformed as well as accuracy I learn from both perspectives. If one builder gives recommendation and I hear similar advice from other builders I'll usually look at this as good info. Like one thing i heard him say about cam selecting I've heard from other builders and one cam manufacturer when I ask about advice on what cam. They all ask what are the numbers from my head data, then what I'll be using the engine for what fuel etc etc. So I can say that part he wasn't too far off but I always double check info just a habit. You've given me great advice yourself that I've implemented into my build again I highly appreciate it because I'm green to this all I'm just trying to learn something I've always wanted to do.

Bernhard

Cam manufactures give out cam specifications to there generic camshafts not there one off profiles. They also sell cams in large volumes so it's no big deal if you copy one of there cams. BTR builds Oldsmobile engines that are tailored to the customers goals. There are others on Classic Oldsmobile that I would be very surprised if they were willing to share there hard earned knowledge around camshaft design. Some members on this site and real Oldsmobile were very open with what cam they were running but they also were not running a business.
I have always used camshafts designed by engine builders versus large cam corporations. I used Dave Smith camshafts as well as a few Jim Bell KB camshafts.

Tederra

I think you may be misunderstanding what happen, nothing against Bill at all I'm just a guy with a 84 hurst that wants to learn some things along my build putting my hands on it much as possible. I ask what he recommend for my power level. I've ask more than him he's not the only good Oldsmobile engine builder lets get this out the way. No one has responded send me your engine and he'll figure it out lol that's absurd I ask for cam recommendation not a engine rebuild lol. Well I ask same question let's say with crower they ask a gang of question answering with youll at least need a cam this size but it's best to get your heads worked figure out what bore stroke and what gas you're going to use etc and make the cam the last item you purchase because they could customize a cam to my application. This language was very easy to interpret made it make sense. I've asked other builders pretty much same answer only given a lets say educated guess on what size I'll need without all the information needed to get a custom grind. NOT ONE SAID SEND THEM MY ENGINE.

Tederra

who actually holds the record for fastest oldsmobile?