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Lift is only a small part of cam choice.
For reference I just did a SBO 428 inch Stroker with CNC’d Speedmasters and a 242/249@.050 Hyd roller on a 109 with .625/.620 lift. It peaked at 6100 with a decent Victor and 850. Yours may spin to 8k but it doesn’t mean it’ll still be making power there. In order to do that you need something well into to 250’s+@050.
Just sayin.
You are talking apples to oranges. The only thing the same. Its a 350 olds size block. As I said some were here before. Peaking around the same rpm as yours. But maintaining that peak HP or at least close. Up to the 8,000+. HP around 650. My engine will still be pulling, past 6,000 or so rpm. Where the one you did. HP will start to decrease.
Batten heads and intake are better flowing. The greater the cylinder heads' intake-port flow, the less cam you need to make the same power at the same rpm. Higher-flowing heads will raise the rpm points where peak torque and power will occur. Batten have improve flow giving the air/fuel mixture more of a straight shot.
And not a stoker. A little less volume needed in the cylinder. 2-inch headers. Strong valve train with lightweight components. Without valve float to 8,000+ rpm.
John, don't let these guys crawl up your *** !
Some of these guys have never even seen one, let alone built one.
Back in the day A.J. banged this block all day long at 8k.
You picked Bill to build your motor for a reason. For the same reason as that other Nascar block video that was recently posted.
If he tells you it's gonna do one thing, that's what it's gonna do. Period !
If you don't tell him what you want then he'll do what he wants.
And for those who are about to say it... No, Bill isn't the only guy who knows his way around this type of build. But he sure has done a lot of them.
Exiting build! Being a newby can someone enlighten me on the difference between the nascar DX blocks vs the regular 350 Olds? Also where does the diesel block fit in?
I did a Buick 350 for boost and 8000 and this girdle helped as it’s a 2 bolt main. Glad you didn’t have to go through that hassle.
Exiting build! Being a newby can someone enlighten me on the difference between the nascar DX blocks vs the regular 350 Olds? Also where does the diesel block fit in?
I did a Buick 350 for boost and 8000 and this girdle helped as it’s a 2 bolt main. Glad you didn’t have to go through that hassle.
Hi, Welcome aboard! Like your Buick! Broke my street racing cherry at 16. In my parents 1970 Skylark Buick 350 GS. Was 1 in a 100. Hotter than most 350 GS right out of the factory. Must have been a Wednesday build with all the right parts coming together. Buick's had more torque than Olds. Loved that Buick!!!! Bad luck with distributor in front of engine in the rain. Would have kill myself in yours at 16 years old.
See the first thread photos. The oil pan rails are massive on thenascar HP DX blocks. With 4 bolt main caps already built in. Other areas in the block are also thicker. No need of what I call a band aid. Oldsmobile V8 diesel block is externally the extra dimension of a Olds 350 gas block. Including this HP Block. So one size fits all. Normal DX and D diesel block are great for high horsepower also. And no need of a band aid. Others have more info than me. I am just a fire sprinkler design. But I know what I want.
Last edited by HighwayStar 442; March 21st, 2023 at 06:40 AM.
The Olds 350 D and DX were the production diesel blocks in late 70s through 80s. They can be converted for gas use quite easily, but they are production diesel engines. The main webs are much, much thicker and the cylinder walls are thicker than the gas block castings. Still 2 bolt mains, uses 3" main bearings. Lots and lots of these diesels were made, so it's not too hard to find a core. There were a lot of mistakes with them so they got a (well deserved) bad name and got junked pretty quickly.
Olds sponsored Nascar racing and provided the Nascar/HP block which is a variation of the DX where the casting is made for gas use (no injection pump boss), and were made with several different main bearing diameters. Not a whole lot were made, and usually they get modified or set up to match the owner's specific combo, or have a hole in the side. You usually have to find a fresh casting that may only be partially machined. So these are much tougher to track down and usually take quite a bit of work to get ready.
If you're going for the ultimate small block build then those are the only options. The big block fans have the Rocket Racing block now.
Hi, Welcome aboard! Like your Buick! Broke my street racing cherry at 16. In my parents 1970 Skylark Buick 350 GS. Was 1 in a 100. Hotter than most 350 GS right out of the factory. Must have been a Wednesday build with all the right parts coming together. Buick's had more torque than Olds. Loved that Buick!!!! Bad luck with distributor in front of engine in the rain. Would have kill myself in yours at 16 years old.
See the first thread photos. The oil pan rails are massive on thenascar HP DX blocks. With 4 bolt main caps already built in. Other areas in the block are also thicker. No need of what I call a band aid. Oldsmobile V8 diesel block is externally the extra dimension of a Olds 350 gas block. Including this HP Block. So one size fits all. Normal DX and D diesel block are great for high horsepower also. And no need of a band aid. Others have more info than me. I am just a fire sprinkler design. But I know what I want.
Thank you very much that’s great info! I’m in Edmonton btw! A few Canucks on here I see!
That’s so cool, I love hearing stories from the old school especially Buick small blocks!
I got hooked on turbocharging v8s so I like to start with a sound foundation. I hope you don’t mind my question in your build thread. I will start a thread once I get a better plan. I have a 455 Olds on the stand but I prefer the option of a boosted DX 350 with a stroker kit. I’m also considering using a stock stroke as I’m only looking for about 650 crank Hp with 7psi. I was impressed by some of the Hp and TQ numbers from the iron head SBO engines and I think boost could really wake them up further.
Back to your build, sorry for the off shoot.
I think your build is on track and it sounds like the builder is helping you reach your goals. Many times we get caught up in a million people’s opinions and just end up with a miss mash of parts that’s don’t work cohesively together. It’s easy to get caught up in numbers, specs and data but at the end of the day a good builder will help you meet your goal. Here’s a perfect example: I had a custom cam ground and he asked me about 10 questions about the car. The use of the car, weight, gearing, head flow, cubic inches, rpm range, octane etc. He then delivered a perfect cam and never once did him or I talk about cam spec numbers. Then a few years later when I wanted a more race oriented setup he delivered again successfully.
what you are looking for is not an engine that makes peak Hp at 8000 you will want something that makes peak Hp at 6500 but keeps 90% of its power without losing valve control at 8000. If it makes let’s just say 550 Hp at 6500 rpm and 530 Hp at 8000 that’s a win! You aren’t trying to outdo anyone this is about what you want and many people seem to miss the boat on thier opinions. Comparing an iron head SBO to this masterpiece is apples and oranges.
Last edited by sean Buick 76; March 21st, 2023 at 11:51 AM.
That’s so cool, I love hearing stories from the old school especially Buick small blocks!
I got hooked on turbocharging v8s so I like to start with a sound foundation. I hope you don’t mind my question in your build thread. I will start a thread once I get a better plan. I have a 455 Olds on the stand but I prefer the option of a boosted DX 350 with a stroker kit. I’m also considering using a stock stroke as I’m only looking for about 650 crank Hp with 7psi. I was impressed by some of the Hp and TQ numbers from the iron head SBO engines and I think boost could really wake them up further.
Go with the boosted DX 350. with 400 or 425 Old forged crank. Or one from Mark cutlassefi.. Turbo "S71" Olds Engine Build Video BTR Performance Part 1 V8TV.
Bryant crankshaft small, light and cool. Good for 1400 HP. Crank spacers in. Waiting for heads to come back from T&D for shaft mount rocker fitting. Shooting for May to pick-up. To make you anti EV crazy, I am picking the engine up in my Tesla Y
My new 84 H/O form back in the day.
Last edited by HighwayStar 442; March 23rd, 2023 at 07:50 PM.
Nice, car purchase! That crank is so shiny! Love the Tesla pick up too. I plan on picking up my 358 short block, going in the trunk of my Challenger GT.
Nice, car purchase! That crank is so shiny! Love the Tesla pick up too. I plan on picking up my 358 short block, going in the trunk of my Challenger GT.
My bad, that's my new 84 H/O i bought back in the day. Many of its parts in HighwayStar now.
That's one very nice crankshaft ! Weight, rod & main jrnl sizes, stroke ? Really like the center CW's, it looks light also !
417 cu in. Spacers going in from 3'' to 2.5'' (3.850 x 1.888 x 1.902 x 350 main, 52.3 lbs. Jim Smaaladen Bryant Racing 1600 E. Winston Road Anaheim, CA 92805) That's even lighter than what Mark sells, he said his was 56#. But at a price.
Last edited by HighwayStar 442; March 24th, 2023 at 09:06 PM.
^ correct
John go back to my original ad and read the " " Oldsmobile In Action " article I posted showing these drain holes and special oiling techniques used by F.J. Smith when running these engines. I believe Bill mentions him in his book.
I have had good luck with pan gaskets. Engine and transmission pans. If I put a very light coat of silicone on both sides. I know that everyone says, do not do. Even the rails of the engine and intake manifold. I also take a center punch to engine and intake manifold rails. Putting many little indents. That keep oil from leaking past.
But not having to pull engine to fix rear seal. Golden!!!
And now the piston. here comes the comments. My reworked Battan head are like 55cc and with very high lift.
Good hear, mine seep somewhere almost always. I agree on the RTV on both sides. What pan is going on this beast? My Canton looks impressive but it didn't sit straight on the block. It is not only leaking on the extra temp sensor plug, I see wetness on the pan gasket, haven't even started it! Only the Right Stuff on one side of the gasket. What are those pistons specs?
Good hear, mine seep somewhere almost always. I agree on the RTV on both sides. What pan is going on this beast? My Canton looks impressive but it didn't sit straight on the block. It is not only leaking on the extra temp sensor plug, I see wetness on the pan gasket, haven't even started it! Only the Right Stuff on one side of the gasket. What are those pistons specs?
Strong grade of silicone. like 50 year architected grade 100% silicone. RTV has failed me, as many other automotive sealants. Again very thinly. I know guys on here will say. Its bad ideal. I just not going in or under a car to fix a oil leak again. FTS.
The piston, all I know its close to 11.1:1 compression. Batten heads mapped out by Bill T.
Your gold seems to be correct and the block is looking great ! Gold must be the easiest color to match for all the paint vendors it seems.
Did you say that this block doesn't have lifter feed oil holes, and that Bill had not seen this before ? (I know I haven't)
Old's had many experimental blocks made. He went to put the oil pump drive shaft in. No hole. Had to machine that one too. And one or two other things. T
I haven't seen Indian Shellac for years up here. I always have a can of Permatex Aviation sealant on the shelf, which apparently is #3. I should have coated the already latex coated Felpro pan gaskets.
Indian shellac or Permatex #3 on both sides of the cork works wonderfully. It's messy, but will not leak.
Messy for sure. I grew up fitting pipe for steam and boilers. Working for my Dad. Old time Grrip sealant (Permatex like). Hard to get off fingers and clothes. Mom would have a conniption fit. If we asked to wash in the laundry. Wrap plumber string on the threads and Grrip. Never leaked. This was way before real teflon tape.
Old's had many experimental blocks made. He went to put the oil pump drive shaft in. No hole. Had to machine that one too. And one or two other things. T
his gold is what I like. Not Old's gold.
Whomever's gold it looks perfect !
I sold a special hybrid DX block this year to a board member, but - of course, it was different than this one. I bet nobody can actually know how many versions of special hybrid blocks were made in all. Mine was with .842 lifter bores (unfinished, 842 lifters wouldn't fit), 3.0" mains, and very thick 307 bores. It had the injector pump boss too.
Whomever's gold it looks perfect !
I sold a special hybrid DX block this year to a board member, but - of course, it was different than this one. I bet nobody can actually know how many versions of special hybrid blocks were made in all. Mine was with .842 lifter bores (unfinished, 842 lifters wouldn't fit), 3.0" mains, and very thick 307 bores. It had the injector pump boss too.
Do you have any pictures? I putting everything I have on here for this one. To document as many blocks that Old's made.
VHT SP404 Engine Metallic Gold Flake Bore - 3.995 Main bearings - 3.00 Lifter bore - .875
Do you have any pictures? I putting everything I have on here for this one. To document as many blocks that Old's made.
VHT SP404 Engine Metallic Gold Flake Bore - 3.995 Main bearings - 3.00 Lifter bore - .875
I did send some text pics before the sale, I'll look for those when I get the chance, but it's been just a little while.
February 3rd, 2023, 02:35 PM
