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Probably best to send it to the recycler since I'm a Muncie guy.
Mader
omy442
I might be interested in it. Please do not scrap it yet until we can get some info off of it. I'm looking for date codes and tag info. Let me know if you still have it.
Thanks
I would put it up for sale if no takers from this post, as plenty of people restoring a 3 speed car could find a home for it, as you mentioned most cars got switched to a 4 speed Muncie.
That trans was used by Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile for a number of years.
Here is my oh by the way to be included on this post. I have an original 3 speed Oldsmobile Hurst shifter for it. Without digging around for it not sure if I have shift rods as well.
Yep...please don't scrap it.
They are a unique trans for a few purists who'd like to retain their 3 speeds.
A lot of people don't realize that the gear ratios in the toploader three speed are actually pretty well thought out. First gear is steeper than for a close ratio Muncie four speed and almost the same as for the M20. Given the torque curve on a BBO, the drop between first and second isn't really that bad, and frankly you can probably leave it in second through the traps, so only one gear change instead of two to slow you down in the quarter.
It was just odd to find a Dearborn trans tucked behind a couple of 67 posi carriers.
15 yrs ago I found a Saginaw covered by a back seat of a 68 parts car.
The ID tag is heavily corroded.
I'm still moving out 30 yrs of olds parts and saving heaviest, "Dearborn" top loader included, for last.
It'll eventually see daylight and I'll take better pics and inspection.
I did find a shifter base, arm, and rods amongst the Hurst shifters and rods that were just a little different in appearance, not for Muncie, and found a bellhousing that was near it that all could very well be for the Dearborn.
I've got a few reference pics of Dearborn trans setup with shifter and linkage to comptoe.
I'll update the thread of what I find and then list for sale.
Mader
omy442
It was just odd to find a Dearborn trans tucked behind a couple of 67 posi carriers.
15 yrs ago I found a Saginaw covered by a back seat of a 68 parts car.
The ID tag is heavily corroded.
I'm still moving out 30 yrs of olds parts and saving heaviest, "Dearborn" top loader included, for last.
It'll eventually see daylight and I'll take better pics and inspection.
I did find a shifter base, arm, and rods amongst the Hurst shifters and rods that were just a little different in appearance, not for Muncie, and found a bellhousing that was near it that all could very well be for the Dearborn.
I've got a few reference pics of Dearborn trans setup with shifter and linkage to comptoe.
I'll update the thread of what I find and then list for sale.
Mader
omy442
I'm interested if the numbers check out. Most interested in the date code which I think is right above the front shift arm stud and will be upside down. If you could clean the tag carefully without harming the numbers for ID that would be great. Let me know.
Thanks
Mike
Mike,
I went thru my pics. Here's side of case with casting date under shift arm
Mader
omy442
Originally Posted by 66-3X2 442
I'm interested if the numbers check out. Most interested in the date code which I think is right above the front shift arm stud and will be upside down. If you could clean the tag carefully without harming the numbers for ID that would be great. Let me know.
Thanks
Mike
Mike,
I went thru my pics. Here's side of case with casting date under shift arm
Mader
omy442
Wow,that's a 67 unit and I need a 66 date code. That trans is a very nice example of a toploader. Would you be so kind to give me a dimension size of the yellow DB ink stamp? Was this by any chance in Ed Skaffs stuff?
Mike
Last edited by 66-3X2 442; November 10th, 2022 at 06:50 PM.
I'll get dimensions in a couple weeks.
I might try onion paper overlay with pencil sketch.
Looks like there's a marking under drain plug.
Mader
omy442
Originally Posted by 66-3X2 442
Wow,that's a 67 unit and I need a 66 date code. That trans is a very nice example of a toploader. Would you be so kind to give me a dimension size of the yellow DB ink stamp? Was this by any chance in Ed Skaffs stuff?
Mike
A lot of people don't realize that the gear ratios in the toploader three speed are actually pretty well thought out. First gear is steeper than for a close ratio Muncie four speed and almost the same as for the M20. Given the torque curve on a BBO, the drop between first and second isn't really that bad, and frankly you can probably leave it in second through the traps, so only one gear change instead of two to slow you down in the quarter.
It's also worth noting that it is a strong transmission. I think it survived some sort of Kills Everything GM Transmission Tester.
I've heard the same about it's optimal ratio sequence and it's strength.
Also...(correct me if I'm wrong) this had a unique tail shaft for GM...meaning it can't be switched with other top loaders.
Just a FYI the gear ratios I believe are the same as a th400, heard a story that GM spec'd it that way as different from a Standard Ford version,, not sure how true or not..
Also with a 2.48 first they are more like a wide ratio 4 speed (2.52/2.56)
Just a FYI the gear ratios I believe are the same as a th400, heard a story that GM spec'd it that way as different from a Standard Ford version,, not sure how true or not..
Also with a 2.48 first they are more like a wide ratio 4 speed (2.52/2.56)
Just a FYI the gear ratios I believe are the same as a th400, heard a story that GM spec'd it that way as different from a Standard Ford version,, not sure how true or not..
Also with a 2.48 first they are more like a wide ratio 4 speed (2.52/2.56)
Regards,,
Jim
That's not correct. The Ford toploader three speed was made in two versions, 2.99/1.72/1.00 for small blocks and 2.42/1.61/1.00 for big blocks. The GM version used the same gears as the BBF version (since they were primarily used behind big block motors in the 442, GTO, and GS). The GM versions came with a GM input shaft and bearing retainer, but kept the Ford bolt pattern to the bellhousing, which is why the BOP bellhousings have two trans bolt patterns. The tailhousing is standard Ford - these take a unique driveshaft and front yoke.
And to add to the trivia question answers, the Dearborn three speed was first offered in the 1965 442 as RPO M14 HD three speed, first available in March 1965. See the announcement to dealers below. It was the base transmission in the 442 from 1966 through the 1969 model year, and in the B-body cars through the 1971 model year as a column-shifted trans. Note the gear ratios described in the page from the 1966 442 description provided in the second image below. Note the standard trans under the Delta 88 page from the 1971 SPECS booklet in the last image.
Thank you Professor Joe !
Always look forward to you sharing your detailed automotive knowledge.
Much appreciated.
Mader
omy442
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
That's not correct. The Ford toploader three speed was made in two versions, 2.99/1.72/1.00 for small blocks and 2.42/1.61/1.00 for big blocks. The GM version used the same gears as the BBF version (since they were primarily used behind big block motors in the 442, GTO, and GS). The GM versions came with a GM input shaft and bearing retainer, but kept the Ford bolt pattern to the bellhousing, which is why the BOP bellhousings have two trans bolt patterns. The tailhousing is standard Ford - these take a unique driveshaft and front yoke.
And to add to the trivia question answers, the Dearborn three speed was first offered in the 1965 442 as RPO M14 HD three speed, first available in March 1965. See the announcement to dealers below. It was the base transmission in the 442 from 1966 through the 1969 model year, and in the B-body cars through the 1971 model year as a column-shifted trans. Note the gear ratios described in the page from the 1966 442 description provided in the second image below. Note the standard trans under the Delta 88 page from the 1971 SPECS booklet in the last image.
It is hard to see on a phone screen but the middle lever in the line up of 5 could be from a 66. It will have a squared off top just below the threads.
It is hard to see on a phone screen but the middle lever in the line up of 5 could be from a 66. It will have a squared off top just below the threads.
It is hard to see on a phone screen but the middle lever in the line up of 5 could be from a 66. It will have a squared off top just below the threads.
I have seen the squared off handle used in a 67 442 with the Phord Dearborn transmission.
November 10th, 2022, 11:23 AM
