dfire25

Hi guys,
Does anyone have a color wiring diagram for a 71 442? I have the one from wild about cars in the assembly manual, but it's blurry and hard to read. I have a couple stray wires that I don't know where they go.

Thanks,
Dave

oldcutlass

Hi Dave, I have some for a Chevelle and I think they are really close to what is on an Olds. Be patient takes some time to open.

http://documents.clubexpress.com/doc...s90nHPCVVVVTJA

MDchanic

Nice diagram, OldCutlass.

Unfortunately, Dave, the only real solution is to get a hard copy of the CSM.

You can do almost everything with the digital version, but there's no substitue for a fold-out wiring diagram.

- Eric

oldcutlass

Thank you, I found this link a few years back before wild about cars. They are pretty clear and accurate. (64-72)

http://www.peachstatechevelles.com/c...=236&cat_id=-1

MDchanic

Cool. Thanks.

Can't have too many diagrams .

- Eric

dfire25

Thanks for the links guys. Unfortunately they are not in color but they are nice and clear. I saved them to my manuals folder and I'm going to print them out as well. They have the same wiring for Chevy and Olds? I would think they would be different.

Thanks again,
Dave

Octania

I looked at the 67-69 wiring diagrams

Obvious diff #1 is the distributor shown spinning the wrong way

Then the "electronic ignition" page shows an electronic VOLTAGE REGULATOR, and no ignition parts at all.

oldcutlass

I didn't say they were perfect. They helped me on a few electrical projects, as I think most of the wiring is the same.

MDchanic

Most of the wiring, connections, colors, and switch internals are the same between most GM cars of the era.

Obvious exceptions occur when equipment differs, such as Toronado vacuum-actuated hidden headlights.

- Eric

dfire25

As long as its close enough to get me in the ballpark I'm good with it. Just a quick look at it, it seems close. Thanks again guys. Where would I be without you guys?!!!

joe_padavano

The Chevy wiring diagram is not the same as a Cutlass. I know from experience that there are several key differences. For example, the TCS system is wired very differently on Chevies than on Oldsmobiles in those years. Circuits may have the same wire colors, but the wire locations in the firewall connector may be different. This is even the case between the 1969 and 1970 Cutlass harnesses.

Quit trying to cheap out and actually pay for a hard copy of an original CSM. Sorry but I don't get this whole "where can I get it free on the web" mentality. The $15 - $25 you'll spend on a CSM is peanuts and probably the best "tool" investment you'll ever make.

dfire25

SORRY!!! I'm not trying to "CHEAP OUT". I'm just trying to get some information on something I don't know about. I thought that this is what this wed sight is about, Olds owners helping out other Olds owners. I'm not trying to save money at the expense of someone else.

MDchanic

No one said anything about anyone else's expense.

It's just that "routine-quality" scanning, such as that practiced by WildAboutCars, will not provide sufficient resolution for every detail of the wiring schematic, and to properly scan the diagram would require cutting out of the book, so it is unlikely at this time that any members is going to do that.

That leaves an actual paper copy of the CSM as your best choice, as I said earlier.

All of these electronic "shortcuts" have their place, and can be very helpful under certain circumstances, but nothing beats the original.

- Eric

dfire25

I have the wildaboutcars copy and I heard what you said about the hard copy I didn't know that was the only resources for this information. I have no problem buying a copy of the CSM, I was just trying to find out if there was other resources.

I just didn't appreciate Joes coments. They where very insulting.

joe_padavano

So, 1) buy a paper CSM. 2) In the mean time, tell us which wires you can't find and we'll try to help.

And to answer your original question:

Yes.

dfire25

Thank you Joe. I will buy a hard copy.

I have a few stray wires that I'm looking to find where they go. Mostly under the dash. The hack that had the car before me just cut them so I'm trying to figure out where they go.

MDchanic

If you tell us what they are (color, size, rough location and direction), we can probably just tell you what they are.

Yellow: radio power
Black: ground
Grey: panel lamps
Orange: always-hot cig lighter, clock, glove compt. light, map light, dome light
White: dome / courtesy light ground
Single blue going behind the heater: rear speaker

Those are the ones you usually find cut up under the dash.

- Eric

dfire25

Thanks Eric, those are some of the wires that are cut. Unfortunately I'm going out for the day so I don't have time right now to get a complete list. I'll take a look this evening and post them on here.

Thanks again, Dave

joe_padavano

I'm sorry if you were offended, but let's be honest here. The reason why we have this information to share is because back before the internet, we all went out and paid for copies of the CSM out of our pocket. Let's be serious, when someone asks for a free copy of a wiring diagram or something like that, what that person is really asking is, will someone buy a copy of the factory diagram, scan it, and let me have it for free. I apologize for unloading on you personally, but this happens a lot.

MDchanic

I see it a slightly different way.

I don't think that most of the folks who ask for this sort of information here are necessarily cheap - I think they're lazy (I'm not directing this at dfire).

It's always been my impression that they're just too darned lazy to actually search out, find, order, and wait for, their own copy, or far worse, they already have a copy, but rather than looking through the book for an answer to their simple question (like, "What should my point gap be?") they shoot the question out to the forum, figuring someone else will save them the effort of getting up out of their chair, walking into the other room, getting the book off the shelf, opening it, searching for the right chapter, searching the chapter index for the right page, turning to that page, and reading the information (Whew! I'm tired just typing all of that!).

Like I said, I'm not accusing the OP of this, but I'm not convinced that this is a money issue for most of those who ask "Service Manual" questions (and, yes, this is a pet peeve of mine).

- Eric

dfire25

Well... I'm mot to sure how to respond to the last 2 posts lol. I dont have a hard copy of the CSM, I just printed out what was on wild about cars. But believe you me I look though every page several times trying to answer my own questions. The wiring diagram on there is is blurry and hard to read. I wasn't asking for someone to go out of their way to help me, I was just looking for advice from the experts. That being said, I would and have done anything I could to help out another Olds owner that needed info I had. The main advice, GET A CSM!!! Got it thanks I will! Lol. I don't think I was being lazy, I was just at a loss for info.

MDchanic

Like I said, I wasn't directing that to you, just a pet peeve.
Sounds like you're not That Guy - you do just what I do: Try to look it up, then ask as a last resort.

You are absolutely right that that diagram is crappy, although there are some years that are scanned better, and, within the limitations of what is or isn't the same from one year to the next, it often pays to look at all the other years on WAC to find the information you need on a clearer diagram.

That's why I suggested getting the book right off.

That being said, I and others would be glad to help you with any questions you may have until you get your book (I do not have a hard copy of your year, but could probably answer most questions anyway).

- Eric

dfire25

Thanks Eric. Does anyone know where to get a CSM? "Cheap" lol

MDchanic

Prices vary by year. "Collectible" years cost more than "non-collectible" years.
I got my '73 CSM for $8 shipped.

eBay seems to be the best place.
There are usually a number of listings. It's best to follow them all for a while, then grab an "orphan" that nobody seems to have noticed (usually after a number have sold, so all the lookers have been satiated).

Here're the current listings.
This one is $34 shipped, and I doubt you'll do much better for a '71.

There are also plenty of literature dealers, but they will always charge top dollar.

- Eric

dfire25

Nice call on those wires Eric.

Theres what I got under the dash:

Thick brown wire with black plastic male connector. Keyed power, meaning it has 12v when the key is on. It has continuity to the heater fuse. Pulled the fuse and no power! So I assume its the heater power feed.

Orange wire (cut) around the same area. Constant power. All my courticy light are working but I didnt even think about the clock feed. I don't have a clock so I assume this is it's power feed. When I pull that fuse, no more power.

Yellow wire (cut) around the same area. Keyed power. pulled the radio fuse... no power! so its the radio feed.

Black? wire with black female connector. Continuity to ground, no power. Not sure where this goes.

Thin blue/white wire around the headlight switch area. It has a spade connector on it, not sure if its a factory connector. No power to the wire anytime. Not sure where this one goes either.

Thick purple wire thats butt ended to a yellow wire that goes to the starter.

Heres what I have under the hood:

Thick purple wire, black/orange wire, 2 green wires. All in the loom with the wiper motor wires. The green wire is the only one thats keyed power.

Light blue wire from the outside fuse box connection. No power

Green wire, keyed power from the outside fuse box connection.

I'll keep looking over the diagram and see if I can find out where they go. I the mean time if anyone knows where these wires go, please let me know.

Thanks,
Dave

oldcutlass

Why are we bashing a guy for asking a question for something that would take a while to get when they are in the middle of a project now? I don't mind people asking questions about finding a wiring diagram on here.

Joe, the harnesses are pretty close as far as terminations, and most color codes from "A" body to "A" body. Are there some deviations, probably. For most of everything I've been working on those diagrams came in very handy and I have referred to them while helping others for the last few years.

dfire25

Are the light blue and green wires from the outside fuse block possibly the feed for the oil pressure and temp sending units? WOW am I getting a headache looking at these diagrams! I thought I was good at reading schematics, I guess I was wrong

MDchanic

Yes, that's the heater fan power.


Clock / Courtesy / Lighter. If everythig works, just make sure that that one's well insulated - it's hot all the time and you'd hate to have it touch something.
It makes a good source for the "memory" lead of a modern radio, though.


Yes, that's the factory radio feed.
It's on the Acc. circuit, so it's on when ON or ACC.
Good for a radio supply, if you want the radio turn off when you shut off the car.


Probably the radio ground. Originally in a single connector with the yellow and a grey.


Sounds like a later addition to me.
If it's not, other blue wires in the area include the oil pressure sender (goes to the cluster), the W/S wiper motor, and the feed to the high beam switch.


Yellow to the starter is the back-feed wire to run +12V to the coil while cranking (goes to the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid), bypassing the ballast resistor.
Thick Purple is usually the starter wire, goes to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid.
These two wires should NOT be connected to each other.
Probably someone fudged something either because of a short near the exhaust manifold, or because they installed HEI - check to see what connects to your starter solenoid. If you've got a yellow wire hooked to the "S" terminal (the outboard terminal that you can actually see from the driver's side), that explains it.
There are an infinite number of things a previous owner (otherwise known as "idiot") could have done, so I would recommend chasing this one down.


Thick purple should be your starter. Only purple in the car, except for the feed from the signal light flasher to the signal light switch.
Black / Orange is involved with the TCS. I can't say more, because that stuff changed every year, and I don't know 1971.
Green were also involved with TCS, and another Green went to the Temp sender.
Remember, the TCS is completely unnecessary, and a properly adjusted car will run better without it, so don't worry about these.


One of two different blue wires to your wiper motor.
If your wipers work, don't worry about it.


Again, something to do with TCS or possibly transmission kickdown, if you've got a TH400, or your Temp light.
If it kicks down, don't worry about it.


Yes.

- Eric

Octania

The proper color wiring diagram for your exact car, alone, justifies the price of admission for a factory paper CSM, in my opinion.

If you think those are hard to read, try the ones made lately with straight line diagrams and connector/ terminal numbers and 5 out of 6 paragraphs are Dire Warnings about all the Bad Things that can happen if you use the wrong end of a screwdriver or similar CYA idiot stuff....

dfire25

Thanks Eric,

I do have a HEI distributor, so maybe that explains the purple to yellow wire change.

What is a TCS? Is that something to do with the trans kickdown solenoid? If so I have no wires going to this solenoid but I do have a th400. I don't think the trans kicks down when I punch it.

Octania

TCS = Trans Controlled Spark
Ah yes the beginning of the era of the TLA [2/Three Letter Acronym]
Manuals are rife with them now, EGR, CCC, all that rot. [ATR?]
God forbid they define them of course.

Basically, the trans was used to disallow vacuum spark advance until and unless the engine was warm AND int like high gear or some such nonscience. CA went even further and made such cars have NO vacuum advance, for a while. Nearly killed my '68 with that stoooopidity. PS it then overheats wickedly at idle, like stuck in traffic on a hot day, which happens a lot in CA.... If you can live with the concept that your car may produce some additional emissions... :-) then you may elect to just run distributor vacuunm advance right off the ported carb nipple or the manifold directly whichever works best for your combination. Thanks to ROP crashing, the long story of how I found manifold vacuum best for my HEI fired HIGH compression 409 is now gone.

The TCS wire and the TKD wire enter the trans at the same connector, but obviously each needs to be wired correctly. Or unwired correctly perhaps, for TCS...

Anyhow, your kickdown [TKD?] should be an easy fix. Keyed 12V to switch at throttle- may have to procure this part [and its mounting bracket/ throttle pedal retainer]- thence to the trans appropriate terminal which your new CSM pretty and clear diagram will tell you all about. You could even get the proper wire from a donor car and have the factory correct item in there. You will want the sealing boot at the trans terminal.

dfire25

Thanks Octania, I'll have to look up the TCS in my CSM. I don't think I have that considering most of my components have been hacked out, bad and good ones.

joe_padavano

I lived in SoCal during the era of the state-mandated add-on "NOx Device". For the uninitiated, these were state-required retrofit devices to disable the vacuum advance, an early attempt at lowering NOx emissions and I believe the only time a state has mandated the retrofit installation of emissions control equipment (this was pre-EPA, actually, and only applied to 1966-1970 model years).

Most of these devices were somewhat sophisticated and some actually had a temp sensor or thermal vacuum switch to prevent motor meltdown, but the cheapest was simply a pair of vacuum caps and a sticker for the dash that said to avoid sitting in traffic in hot temperatures.

I am not making this up.

One of the most classic examples of bureaucracy at work happened when a co-worker of mine took his Dodge van in to be emissions tested. He had previously installed a fully mechanical advance distributor on the 318. The smog police made him remove the offending distributor and install a stocker with a vac advance canister just so that he could install the NOx device vacuum caps to disable the vac advance.

And in an example of why it pays to read the rules, it turns out that the law requiring the NOx device actually had a loophole. Cars that came from the factory with multiple carbs, ram air, or other similar very high performance motors were NOT required to use a NOx device. I went several rounds with the testing office before they admitted that my 70 W-30 did not require the device (and this despite the fact that the car already had TCS!).