wolf1359

Just finished a frame on restoration of an original 1969 convertible 442 and am trying to find out production numbers. Anyone have an idea of how many convertible 442's were built in 69 but here is the catch, this one came through with a floor mounted standard Saginaw 3 speed trans. The engine is the original 400 V-8, 4 barrel, with dual exhaust. Have heard everything from 90 to 1250 were built. Thanks!

jaunty75

Total production of '69 442 convertibles was 4,295. My source doesn't break it down by how many had that transmission. Maybe someone else will have that info.

Can we see photos of this car?

oldsmobiledave

Welcome. Post pics & fill out your location.

Are you sure that 3 speed on the floor was a Saginaw & not a Dearborn?

wolf1359

Here are a few shots of the car. Potential buyers have been asking and I have been reluctant to offer numbers other than, like you wrote, the total produced! Thank you

wolf1359

Yes, several sources told me a 3 speed standard transmission would be a Saginaw, and my restorer confirmed same

oldsmobiledave

Again are you sure?. Isn't the 3 on the tree a Saginaw while the 3 on the floor is a Dearborn?

wolf1359

Several sources on line and folks into Oldsmobile said / published that the Saginaw was available on the floor or column mounted.

oldsmobiledave

If I recall correctly the Saginaw was not available as a 3 on the floor in a 442. Others will chime in & settle this.

Nice car though.

wolf1359

It's such an issue to have firm concrete answers on some of these issues as the records are poor and in some cases unavailable. One nice thing about the Pontaic Historical Society (PHS) submit a VIN and get a full report! Several on line sources state the Saginaw as the floor mounted but also available as a column mounted, so this is why I put the question out there!

wmachine

Nice '69!
There were 87 1969 442s Convertibles that came with a 3-speed manual transmission.
I have one and knew of 2 others. Now I know of 3 others. If your trans is original, then it is not a Saginaw, it is a Ford toploader. One can call it a "Dearborn" trans, but it came from Ford.

wmachine

Just for the record for 1969 442 Convertibles:
87 3-spd manual
1161 4-spd
3047 auto

wolf1359

Thank you, 87 is the number I have heard but did not want to provide incorrect info to a possible buyer as this car is for sale. Might I ask, where di you find the production numbers should I be asked?

wmachine

These are fairly well distributed figures that originally came from Oldsmobile and were originally compiled by Helen Early. They are still kept as "official" numbers by the GM Heritage Center.

QMaster

Nice car!

mike8162

Very Nice! Love the 69s.

Cheers, Mike

OLD SKL 69

Welcome to CO! Nice looking 69.

wolf1359

Thank you everyone for the information and kind comments about my 69 442.
I also have a numbers matching 66 - 442 real deal, both for sale if any one knows anyone!!

joe_padavano

Your "restorer" just lost all credibility. The base transmission on the 1969 442 was the three speed Dearborn (don't call it a Ford) toploader with floor shift. The Saginaw three speed with column shift was the base trans on lesser Cutlii that year, but was NEVER factory offered in the 442 in 1969.

As for rarity, some things are rare for a reason. The three speed manual was unpopular when these cars were new. People upgraded to the four speed or the automatic.

wolf1359

Every one makes a blunder here or there! He wasn't the only one to call it a Saginaw!
Very true about rarity...but..some of the rarest and ugliest are now sought after !!
Thanks for the input

joe_padavano

Well, maybe that's an education problem in a Chevy-centric world, but anyone who's ever pulled one out will know that there are differences:

Saginaw three speed:



Dearborn three speed:

fried okra

As an ex-GM engineer I had one of the 1969 Pontiac GTO's with the toploader Dearborn 3 speed close ratio manual trans when it was new. This is all from memory, but Buick-Olds-Pontiac used the 3 speed Dearborn Ford sourced transmissions in the GTO/442/GrandSports from 1965 through 1969. Chevrolet chose to use the in house GM sourced 3 speed manual transmission on their SS396 cars. B-O-P wisely thought their warranty claims costs would be less using the Dearborn toploader.

If I could order a new GTO, 442, or GrandSport today, and I wish I could, I would order the base 3 speed manual transmission. I had a couple GTO's and a W-31 Olds with four speeds but enjoyed the Dearborn 3 speed car more.

The toploader 3 speed Dearborn manual transmission was one of the toughest and best shifting manual transmissions GM used in those days. It was the transmission Ford developed to use behind their big block cars around 1963 as I recall. Stock car race drivers choose these transmissions for their dirt track type cars today I understand because of its durability.