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One was a 461, the other a 463. Big deal.
And I really don’t think .3 of comp difference as well as just 4* of cam made up the bulk of the 97hp difference, do you?
I can tell you from experience the long tubes were worth 30, the intake about 20, maybe, the rest is cyl head. I’ve Dyno’d enough of these to know.
If you ever actually saw the way both come out of the box you wouldn’t be asking these questions. That’s the problem here and on other forums. People critique stuff that they’ve never even seen, amazing.
Then why not show everyone the difference?
you talk about it, hint about it, but have never actually shown the difference. Do an out of the box tutorial for everyone instead of saying you know, and if everyone could see what you see,,they would know too.
one. 8 pulls. Dyno carb used. I just don't know when we will be getting the Holley Terminator stuff so we wanted to finish and ship while the weather is good. All in all, I'm happy with the new design Edelbrock heads. Normally these 468 engines make about 510 to 520 with 10.7:1 and a bigger cam. This has 10.35 with a small duration camshaft for better driveability with a stick. Too big of a cam makes it an assache to drive allthough it makes more power.
Peak TQ/HP 546TQ 530HP
So with less comp and camshaft the engine made 10 to 20 hp more HP than the older version Edelbrock head.
Last edited by Bernhard; December 14th, 2022 at 09:32 PM.
Then why not show everyone the difference?
you talk about it, hint about it, but have never actually shown the difference. Do an out of the box tutorial for everyone instead of saying you know, and if everyone could see what you see,,they would know too.
I know it still won’t be good enough, but I’ll ask anyway. How’s this?
P.S. I’m not taking my fully assembled Edelbrocks apart at this time to show even more differences however. So hopefully you all get the idea.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 15th, 2022 at 09:27 AM.
Its fairly obvious to me the "workmanship" is different, just by looking at the threaded bolt hole champfers. The edges of the ports show a big difference also. Differences inside the port is also apparent. Thanks for posting.
Great pictures!
that's interesting. The the camber picture, can you clarify which is the Speedmaster, i assume i know. But i dont want to be wrong.
The bottom is the copy of the 1st gen Edelbrock...... I mean, the SM. The upper is the much adored heart shaped chamber on the new Edelbrock that makes a whole 10-20hp more.
The upper is the much adored heart shaped chamber on the new Edelbrock that makes a whole 10-20hp more.
I hear a bit of sarcasm in there😎! Remember it makes 10-20 more than the Gen II’s, and the Gen II’s make more than the Gen I’s, and so on and so on………
You have to remember these are all pretty mild builds as well. I’ll bet the difference is greater the more radical it gets.
one. 8 pulls. Dyno carb used. I just don't know when we will be getting the Holley Terminator stuff so we wanted to finish and ship while the weather is good. All in all, I'm happy with the new design Edelbrock heads. Normally these 468 engines make about 510 to 520 with 10.7:1 and a bigger cam. This has 10.35 with a small duration camshaft for better driveability with a stick. Too big of a cam makes it an assache to drive allthough it makes more power.
Peak TQ/HP 546TQ 530HP
So with less comp and camshaft the engine made 10 to 20 hp more HP than the older version Edelbrock head.
Originally Posted by fleming442
The bottom is the copy of the 1st gen Edelbrock...... I mean, the SM. The upper is the much adored heart shaped chamber on the new Edelbrock that makes a whole 10-20hp more.
Read the whole sentence (above) to put things in proper perspective. This is an assessment from "Bill" somebody. Results from others could document a larger difference.
Read the whole sentence (above) to put things in proper perspective. This is an assessment from "Bill" somebody. Results from others could document a larger difference.
Bill somebody BTR Bill the author of the book below.
Last edited by Bernhard; December 15th, 2022 at 07:47 PM.
I hear a bit of sarcasm in there😎! Remember it makes 10-20 more than the Gen II’s, and the Gen II’s make more than the Gen I’s, and so on and so on………
You have to remember these are all pretty mild builds as well. I’ll bet the difference is greater the more radical it gets.
Bill did some max effort Edelbrock heads that were quite impressive. It will be interesting to see the new head taken to there full potential and how they compares. If they can produce similar or even better numbers with less work that would be impressive. The max effort Edelrocks had a lot of work done to them.
Bill did some max effort Edelbrock heads that were quite impressive. It will be interesting to see the new head taken to there full potential and how they compares. If they can produce similar or even better numbers with less work that would be impressive. The max effort Edelrocks had a lot of work done to them.
What did he do to those heads ? What did they flow ? What did it cost ?
Read the whole sentence (above) to put things in proper perspective. This is an assessment from "Bill" somebody. Results from others could document a larger difference.
Like @cutlassefi said: the Gen 3 is 10-20 over Gen 2 which was 10-20 over Gen 1/speedmaster. Cumulatively, that's 20-40, but I've never subscribed to those kind of adds. Worked Gen 1 and 2s are out there, as well.
Originally Posted by OLDSter Ralph
What did he do to those heads ? What did they flow ? What did it cost ?
I don't know that he ever released flow numbers. From what I remember, they were CNC'ed Gen 1s and the pushrods were moved.
The new Eddys seems like a respectable head. Are they needed for 500 to 550Hp build???? That is up to the end user. To me personally, I would rather pay less for a head and spend some $$$ to tailor it to my needs and wants. I have NEVER used an OOTB head, there all gone thru and usually change some parts, unless I'm allowed to specs the hardware. Like everything I run uses conical springs with Ti locks and retainers. ALL my cams are custom to my package/goals. So to me, an OOTB head will not be what I want.
As far as what the heads are worth Hp wise? I don't see it as just an number. YES there worth some, but it's all back to the combo. IF one put these on a stock, 1971 W30 and nothing else, how much more power will they make? OR if you had a engine running well, say a 500Hp 455 and only swapped out the heads from Speedmasters to these, and used the same cam, compression, rockers, what the Hp/tq difference be? I would venture and tell most that a properly built Olds will probably see 35Hp to be safe. Then it come back to budget, or if one already has Speedmasters? Is it worth the extra $$$ to the end user? Or does he max out his Speedmasters and know that there could be as much as 50Hp left with the new Eddys? Or does he need that extra 50 for his goals or needs.
I know the Speedemasters are not the quality of the Eddys at this time. But we have worked on some China heads that would absolutely blow the Eddys heads quality out of the water. As seen it first hand in other industries where the China superior to the North American product. But those weren't cheapy China parts. These were almost 1/2 of the NA products cost. China can and does build good and quality product IF the customer sources it that way. BUT sadly most are more $$$ driven then quality driven.
one. 8 pulls. Dyno carb used. I just don't know when we will be getting the Holley Terminator stuff so we wanted to finish and ship while the weather is good. All in all, I'm happy with the new design Edelbrock heads. Normally these 468 engines make about 510 to 520 with 10.7:1 and a bigger cam. This has 10.35 with a small duration camshaft for better driveability with a stick. Too big of a cam makes it an assache to drive allthough it makes more power.
Peak TQ/HP 546TQ 530HP
So with less comp and camshaft the engine made 10 to 20 hp more HP than the older version Edelbrock head.
Fleming, here is "Bill's" assessment earlier in the thread that I posted, not Cutlassefi.
Fleming, here is "Bill's" assessment earlier in the thread that I posted, not Cutlassefi.
I was combining the two. Where is velcro shoes to tell us how much that 35hp is worth on the track? If you throw a 50hp shot of nitrous on a set of stock Speedmasters, you'll shjt all over some Edelbrock junk! Go China!
Here's my used gen 1s i bought for $1500, cut to 63cc, 2.15 intakes
Last edited by fleming442; December 16th, 2022 at 09:29 AM.
Bill has done a new set of heads and they are a step forward. No one ever said the Speedmaster head is as good as the Edelbrock. For the money the Speedmaster heads are hard to beat. One could argue, that taking the money you save on the heads and investing in a good converter and gears would be better bang for the $$
Below are the Dyno numbers from a BTR build using the new heads ported.
Bernhard wrote:
I never said what was done or not done !
Judging by the pictures that were posted they were not out of the box.
The new head is just that new and until someone builds a serious engine with them we will not know what they are capable of.
This is the new head that is on the engine that I posted the dyno sheet for.
Is this considered out of the box see picture below.
Ok here we go. Machining ports on a set of new style Olds Edelbrock heads. Hopefully it isn't Swiss cheese when it's done.
Last edited by Bernhard; December 16th, 2022 at 07:13 PM.
I never said that the Speedmaster head was better nor did I say that it was a max effort BTR head!
I posted the info in another in another thread on this form a least a month back what don't you understand about a step forward?
I know exactly what you said you said "bill has done a set of new heads" mine isn't max effort either. But a legitimate comparison is out of the box from both brands or worked heads FROM BOTH BRANDS. It's crazy to me to compare a worked head with one out of the box. Your money spend it as you please but as I said one is way better than the other as well as one cost more than the other. But really it's even better in the casting also if I spoke on the two I'd just say well speedmaster is cheaper depending on what your goals are it'll work. But edelbrock is a better head that cost more but also offers more potential. Solid facts SOLID TRUTH to give the reader accurate information to decide on. NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE SOMEONE TO PURCHASE WHAT YOU PURCHASED. Because no, speedmaster will not outperform edelbrock worked nor out of the box. Sure a worked speedmaster will outperform a out the box eddy but not a set that's worked PERIOD.
I believe he just cleaned up the entries and exits. Nothing beyond that.
that's all he did that's all he said he did he posted them on his Facebook group and explained what he done because somebody ask did he cnc them he said no. Then as I mention he personally told me he didn't have a program at the moment to do them.
Bernhard wrote:
I never said what was done or not done !
Judging by the pictures that were posted they were not out of the box.
The new head is just that new and until someone builds a serious engine with them we will not know what they are capable of.
This is the new head that is on the engine that I posted the dyno sheet for.
Is this considered out of the box see picture below.
Ok here we go. Machining ports on a set of new style Olds Edelbrock heads. Hopefully it isn't Swiss cheese when it's done.
But reading is fundamental he explained what he did in the comments of that post.
I have no idea who the hell bill is.
So that means nothing to me.
A head ported by some guy I've never heard off probably means I wouldn't have him port them. Also hes going to port a head that i cant even buy? Makes no sense
what is my point?
I believe my only point was that the cheaper heads were worth a look to some people when a poster said they weren't.
I am Not trying to build my 461 into a 600/700hp engine.
400 plus and I'll be happy. The heads I bought will do that. Because of the other factors I have in the build, cam, intake, exhaust, and compression.
I've waited 2 f*cking years for these eddys to hit the market. So don't preach me about my virtues.
I got tired of waiting so I bought the speedmaster.
David freiburger says don't get it perfect, just get it running.
That's where I'm at with this car. A car doing burnouts with China aluminum is better then a glorified paperweight sitting in my garage.
nice chevelle. I have a 67 as well.
I won't post a picture because it's not a olds and don't want to make you mad for bring up the C word. Hahaha!
lol no you ok and thanks for the compliment I'm just saying we were discussing oldsmobile heads. Chevy has nothing to do with it but when you have a bigger market you'll usually have product that's easily for the public to get hands of. What i like about oldsmobile is it doesn't have that support and you have guys like Mark,Bill,Peyton which makes his own billet heads and these guys aren't funded like chevy to throw money in state of the art r&d. So honestly speaking chevy is easier and cheaper to make power everybody knows this but EVERYBODY IS DOING IT AS WELL. It's a bit of uniqueness when you're the under dog.
One thing I've noted in the 2 dyno chart post you guys have posted, Bernards low 800Hp and Cuttlassefis low 500Hp, is the VE is down? Is this a common trait with OLDS engine on the dyno's?
Bernard's low 800Hp does make nice flat Hp and would be a nice high 8 second ride depending on weight and chassis set-up. Still need to pull it higher to see where power does start to drop off a bit more.
December 14th, 2022, 03:05 PM
